transient Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 I don't know who he is but if he is mobile then I would be ok with it. Slow goofs like Luck and Flacco will get their wins; maybe even Super Bowl wins, but they take YEARS to develop due to fewer options being open from a relatively stationary QB. The mobile guys create more chances to win and they do so more immediately as I pointed out in my reply to Transient. Here's the list of SB winning QBs since 1990. I'd say history diagrees with you. Steve Young is the only running QB on that list and closest thing to what you're touting. Of the slow goofs that you point to in your initial slow goof reference, as has been noted in the press recently, Flacco has the best winning percentage among QBs in the NFL in his first 5 years in the league, and now has a SB MVP. Matt Ryan has been to the playoffs with the Falcons in 4 of the 5 years he's been the starter for the Falcons. Pretty slow development. Matt Stafford plays for the Lions, panning him is like panning Brandon Weeden. Detroit can't get out of their own way, but it's not because of Stafford. The running QB is a trend that has yet to be borne out as successful instead of gimmick. They are clearly not the only way to win. They are fun to watch, though. Super Bowl 25. Jeff Hostetler (Ottis Anderson), 1 TD Super Bowl 26. Mark Rypien (MVP), 2 TDs Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco
boyst Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 and rumors of sealed records on HS incidents with police (those may be true, may be dirty recruiting tactics) the Dean Smith approach.
4merper4mer Posted February 5, 2013 Author Posted February 5, 2013 The drunk fight in the street followed by giving the cop his fake ID to try and skate on it but ended up getting arrested and rumors of sealed records on HS incidents with police (those may be true, may be dirty recruiting tactics) Seemingly poor judgement stuff, not morally bankrupt things really OK thanks. I'm not sure if it is enough to steer me away but probably. It seems like every guy the Bills do something special for like a long term deal gets "injured" or starts sucking right after. Some of those guys showed no previous character flaws. We have Fitz, two Williamses and Jackson as examples. A guy like Manziel that has already shown character flaws, even small ones, is a dicey proposition at #8 in the draft so I guess I'm officially off the draft Manziel bandwagon.
Rob's House Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Every criminal defense lawyer in WNY and beyond is salivating at the chance of having Manziel in WNY Nothing gets a lawyer's blood pumping like a high-profile misdemeanor case.
4merper4mer Posted February 5, 2013 Author Posted February 5, 2013 Here's the list of SB winning QBs since 1990. I'd say history diagrees with you. Steve Young is the only running QB on that list and closest thing to what you're touting. Of the slow goofs that you point to in your initial slow goof reference, as has been noted in the press recently, Flacco has the best winning percentage among QBs in the NFL in his first 5 years in the league, and now has a SB MVP. Matt Ryan has been to the playoffs with the Falcons in 4 of the 5 years he's been the starter for the Falcons. Pretty slow development. Matt Stafford plays for the Lions, panning him is like panning Brandon Weeden. Detroit can't get out of their own way, but it's not because of Stafford. The running QB is a trend that has yet to be borne out as successful instead of gimmick. They are clearly not the only way to win. They are fun to watch, though. My original point was to draft Manziel. Somehow it broke down into an argument of slow goof QBs vs Agile QBs who can open up options. My point is that the changes in the game make these QBs like Wilson, RG and CK the better choice. Pointing out that a slow goof named Hostetler or Aikman won the Super Bowl actually proves the point that the game is changing. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. Still......Stafford......really? As for Manziel, if you wanted him to play slow goof style and never take advantage of what his speed offers him, then he can still do it. From a skills perspective and a marketing perspective he can't lose. The character flaws pointed out by No Saint are game changers though I have to admit.
BillsBytheBay Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Russell Wilson? Cam has the physical tools to play any position he wanted. I can't think of any other QB in history as physically talented as Cam, so he is the exception to durability concerns.
transient Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 My original point was to draft Manziel. Somehow it broke down into an argument of slow goof QBs vs Agile QBs who can open up options. My point is that the changes in the game make these QBs like Wilson, RG and CK the better choice. Pointing out that a slow goof named Hostetler or Aikman won the Super Bowl actually proves the point that the game is changing. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here. Still......Stafford......really? As for Manziel, if you wanted him to play slow goof style and never take advantage of what his speed offers him, then he can still do it. From a skills perspective and a marketing perspective he can't lose. The character flaws pointed out by No Saint are game changers though I have to admit. Until there are Agile QBs that have won a Super Bowl on that list, your point that these QBs are a better option is not "proven." There is a trend toward them right now, but a pocket passer just won the SB over an Agile QB. Any knock on Flacco about the team around him helping out can just as easily be made about Kaep. I would be happy to see either on the Bills right now. Re Stafford, the QBs in the discussion were not my selection, I only made the point that they were drafted within a year of one another and haven't taken as long to develop as you insinuated. I'd also not be complaining if he was in a Bills uniform. As many have pointed out, hopefully intentionally to stir the pot, though possibly due to a delusional disorder or a bad acid trip, your original point requires little to no comment.
The Real Buffalo Joe Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 I guess I'm officially off the draft Manziel bandwagon. There was no bandwagon. Why did I sit through 8 pages of trolling, knowing it was trolling? I really wish i had this time back.
Malazan Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 There was no bandwagon. Why did I sit through 8 pages of trolling, knowing it was trolling? I really wish i had this time back. Here is a minute worth of time. Don't spend it all in one thread.
4merper4mer Posted February 5, 2013 Author Posted February 5, 2013 Until there are Agile QBs that have won a Super Bowl on that list, your point that these QBs are a better option is not "proven." There is a trend toward them right now, but a pocket passer just won the SB over an Agile QB. Any knock on Flacco about the team around him helping out can just as easily be made about Kaep. I would be happy to see either on the Bills right now. Come on now. The Niners did not score on a kickoff return or int return or anything like it. Of course both teams helped both QBs so the fact remains that Kap outscored Flacco and Flacco had to have 5 years of planning go exactly right to get that trophy. Kap needed bad luck in his first year to lose. So did RG3 what with the injury and running into Wilson and so did Wilson with all that crazy last second stuff in Atlanta. When you think about it, Kap RG and Wilson basically only lost to each other in the playoffs. If even one of them happened to play in the AFC the Super Bowl would have had two of them barring bad luck and crazy plays. Don't get me wrong, Flacco deserves tons of credit for all that work. It is just that the slow goofs need everything to go right where the new breed can make up for a few snafus.
Big Gun Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Lighten up on him. He's a former performer that is not only colorful, but waxes on about things in only the way that he could. Hmmmm.....wonder he used to perform?
buffaloboyinATL Posted February 5, 2013 Posted February 5, 2013 Hmmmm.....wonder he used to perform? If you mean you wonder what he used to perform, the answer is.. Cerebral comedy on unsuspecting newbies.
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 The OP must be a Jets fan. Why else would anyone want the Bills to forfeit their pick?
NoSaint Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 The OP must be a Jets fan. Why else would anyone want the Bills to forfeit their pick? What's goodell going to do, take our 2014 1st rounder away? I say we think of it like a trade.
DanInUticaTampa Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 The OP must be a Jets fan. Why else would anyone want the Bills to forfeit their pick? To avoid drafting a bust, of course
Sisyphean Bills Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 What's goodell going to do, take our 2014 1st rounder away? I say we think of it like a trade. Goodell? He's a Patriots fan. Follow the smoke to the video tapes, man.
4merper4mer Posted February 20, 2013 Author Posted February 20, 2013 Although I am still worried about Manziel's character issues I keep reading that Clowney wants in . If some team agrees with him and drafts him they would win in court. If Clowney goes 5, 6, 7 I think we will get Manziel. If he goes earlier someone else will take Johnny as they'll have time to do some research. If Clowney doesn't go I doubt we have the guts.
buffalobillsgrl Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 Although I am still worried about Manziel's character issues I keep reading that Clowney wants in . If some team agrees with him and drafts him they would win in court. If Clowney goes 5, 6, 7 I think we will get Manziel. If he goes earlier someone else will take Johnny as they'll have time to do some research. If Clowney doesn't go I doubt we have the guts. can Manziel even declare next yr? I thought he was a freshman? Character issues? What is he like 12? lol ok probably not that young. I don't know many 20 yr old males who don't make mistakes do you? What did he do?
boyst Posted February 20, 2013 Posted February 20, 2013 You're the same guy that wanted to draft Clocker. How is he working out? Manziel is the next Jay Clocker.
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