John from Riverside Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 WOW.....looking at that I could see several guys worth getting rid of for cap space...... I would try to hang onto Travaris Jackson Thigpen Gone Keep Moore, McClentyre, resign Levitre, Byrd, Merriman, Rinehart I would also keep McKelvin if possible......thought he was turning things around last year and MAYBE a guy like Pettine could actually make him GOOD. Scott.....gone Ruvel....gone Choice....gone
Dibs Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Ryan Fitzpatrick - 7 yr/$62,195,000 UFA's QB Travaris Jackson - 2 yr/$8,000,000 QB Tyler Thigpen - 3 yr/$9,000,000 G Andy Levitre - 4 yr/$3,560,000 S Jairus Byrd - 4 yr/$4,150,000 DE Kyle Moore - 2 yr/$1,065,000 RB Tashard Choice - 1 yr/$700,000 DL Spencer Johnson - 5 yr/$17,500,000 WR Ruvell Martin - 1 yr/$700,000 FB Corey McIntyre - 2 yr/$2,500,500 CB Leodis McKelvin - 5 yr/$19,400,000 DE Shawne Merriman - 1 yr/$700,000 G Chad Rinehart - 1 yr/$1,260,000 LB Bryan Scott - 1 yr/$825,000 FA's C/G Colin Brown - WR Donald Jones - WR David Nelson - ERFA TE Mike Caussin TE Dorin Dickerson $ figures found on http://www.spotrac.c.../buffalo-bills/ Look at how much can be saved on dumping 2 of the three QB's listed! Spencer Johnson - 19 Tackles - 2 sacks 5 years with the Bills - At 31 they should cut or resign him at a moderate price. is Leodis really worth - $3.88 M yr You realize that the list you gave was for UFAs yes? That means they are Free Agents. That means that none of them are under contract. You can't cut Spencer Johnson(or any of them) because he is a Free Agent.
bladiebla Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 The Bills can save an additional 20 million by cutting Kelsay, McGee, Smith, Wilson, Barnett, and Fitz before March. There is simply no excuse for losing Levitre or Byrd to free agency. The reason can very well be that they dont want to be here anymore...
White Linen Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Actually we do know. Analytics say he is the 17th best guard in the NFL(both sides) overall and is rated the best pass blocking guard in the NFL... Case in point. You don't have an actual opinion from watching or comparing him to other guards from watching. Someone else, another source, or a stat had to tell you what you believe about him. I'm not making fun of you, I'm just saying it's one of the hardest positions to have an opinion on.
Mark Vader Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 That's a lot of hyperbole. I don't think anyone is saying that losing Levitre would be "no big deal." Believe me, there are people on this board who have said that. Maybe not those exact words, but very similar. I don't think it would be "easy" to replace him, but I also don't think it would be that difficult either. I don't want to find out what it would be like to replace him. This is not just about Levitre, it's about keeping the entire O-Line together. This is a good group of guys and they appear to have built a good rapport with each other. I don't want to mess that up. I agree that you don't let your best players walk. Failing to sign Stevie last year, failing to sign Byrd this year, failing to sign Spiller in 2 years - that would qualify as "letting your best players walk." Losing the 17th ranked guard in the league? No. I don't care where Levitre is ranked at. He's proven to be a valuable player on this team. If the Bills overpay to keep him, I do not see that as a big deal. The Bills have enough money to re-sign both Levitre & Byrd. They can always renegotiate contracts down the line. And this may sound crazy, but I think Chan's offensive scheming did a lot to bolster the sack numbers of our OL. Nearly every play was designed to get the ball out of Fitz's hand in under 3 seconds - you rarely saw him drop back and survey the field. Fitz overthrows receivers and flutters balls into the ground faster than any QB in the league. A valid point. However there were plenty of times this season when Fitz had "all day" to throw, even without maximum protection, and several times when defenses blitzed the O-Line did a good job in picking it up. I'll say it again, the O-Line is a strength on this team, and we should keep all the starters on it.
Big Turk Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) Actually I made a mistake, Levitre is ranked 9th best guard in the NFL, and the 4th best LG, not 17th...also the best pass blocking guard in the NFL... Grubbs is a valid comparison as he was ranked 7th, 2 spots ahead of Levitre and both are ahead of Nicks who is ranked 21st. Edited January 29, 2013 by matter2003
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 You realize that the list you gave was for UFAs yes? That means they are Free Agents. That means that none of them are under contract. You can't cut Spencer Johnson(or any of them) because he is a Free Agent. OK let me correct myself. Look how much they won't have to spend by not keeping 2 of the three QB's listed! (or all 3) Keepers - G Andy Levitre - $1,200,000-$1,500,000/yr S Jairus Byrd - $1,200,000-$1,500,000/yr RB Tashard Choice - $700,000/yr FB Corey McIntyre - $700,000/yr DE Shawne Merriman - $700,000/yr The problem with these two young players is that they have been on extended Injury leave these past 2 seasons. WR Donald Jones or WR David Nelson - resign them to the min salary.
Dibs Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 OK let me correct myself. Look how much they won't have to spend by not keeping 2 of the three QB's listed! (or all 3)... If we keep Fitz we are only $0.45M better off than if we cut him. As for the other 2 QBs..... The concept really isn't how much we can save by dumping them(as they are no longer on the Bills roster).....it is how much will it cost us to re-sign them compared to other FA QBs. ...... Keepers - G Andy Levitre - $1,200,000-$1,500,000/yr S Jairus Byrd - $1,200,000-$1,500,000/yr I don't think you have a proper grasp of what a Free Agent is. Levitre and Byrd are Free Agents. Their old contracts of $1.2M-$1.5M/yr no longer exist. If we want to re-sign them it will be costing us a considerable amount more than that. I don't know how much.....at a guess I would say somewhere in the range of $5M-$7.5M/yr.....though it might be a bit more as they have now both made the pro bowl. Also....other teams may outbid us for their services. We may have no choice but to let them go. RB Tashard Choice - $700,000/yr FB Corey McIntyre - $700,000/yr DE Shawne Merriman - $700,000/yr I'm a bit confused with these names listed. Did you mean keep them? If we offer them league minimums....and no other team outbids us.... Choice will get $0.7M/yr McIntyre & Merriman will be on $0.825M/yr The problem with these two young players is that they have been on extended Injury leave these past 2 seasons. WR Donald Jones or WR David Nelson - resign them to the min salary. These two are Restricted Free Agents. That means we actually have some say in whether we keep them. Their minimum salary(if not offered more from a different team) will be $0.7M/yr
BuffBill Posted January 29, 2013 Posted January 29, 2013 Don't think you can blame it on any one signing if Levitre or Byrd leaves. If they wanna stay, they will stay. If the Anderson signing costs us Levitre leaving then the Mario signing cost us the next 10 players that leave. Don't think you can blame it on any one signing if Levitre or Byrd leaves. If they wanna stay, they will stay. If the Anderson signing costs us Levitre leaving then the Mario signing cost us the next 10 players that leave. OK let me correct myself. Look how much they won't have to spend by not keeping 2 of the three QB's listed! (or all 3) Keepers - G Andy Levitre - $1,200,000-$1,500,000/yr S Jairus Byrd - $1,200,000-$1,500,000/yr RB Tashard Choice - $700,000/yr FB Corey McIntyre - $700,000/yr DE Shawne Merriman - $700,000/yr The problem with these two young players is that they have been on extended Injury leave these past 2 seasons. WR Donald Jones or WR David Nelson - resign them to the min salary. Not sure what your point is, you aren't going to get Byrd or Levitre for 1.5 million a year, try about 3-5 times that much. The Bears have definitely expressed interest in Levitre and also have the Cap space. Levitre will become one of the highest paid Guards in the NFL this offseason. If you are correct and they have even mentioned being interested in a player before March, that is tampering and they might lose a draft pick or be fined. Rumors are everywhere. The Bills can save an additional 20 million by cutting Kelsay, McGee, Smith, Wilson, Barnett, and Fitz before March. There is simply no excuse for losing Levitre or Byrd to free agency. I don't think money is the issue, and if Byrd or Levitre don't want to be here, they won't be here unless they get franchised, and all that does is piss a player off and you can guarantee they will be gone the next year. Put yourself in this position, hypothetically speaking you get offered 7 million a year by the Pats, 49ers, Packers or another team that has a chance every single season to go to the Super Bowl or you get offered the same or even a little more by a team that hasn't been in the playoffs since you (the player)was 10 or 12 years old, plays one of their only 8 home games in Canada, doesn't have a QB they can win has just signed an unflattering coaching staff. Where do you go? For 90% (if not more) of the players in the NFL the answer is simple. In order to get a top tier FA here, you have to over pay drastically-i.e. Mario Williams.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) If we keep Fitz we are only $0.45M better off than if we cut him. This is a month old, but according to it ..... Starting quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick might be playing his final two games in a Buffalo Bills uniform. According to the details of Fitzpatrick's $59 million contract extension, the Bills are in prime position to get out of this agreement after another inconsistent season. ESPN.com's AFC East blog has learned Buffalo will save $4.45 million in cap space and $7.45 million in actual cash by cutting Fitzpatrick this offseason. Fitzpatrick is due a base salary of $4.25 million and an easy-to-obtain workout bonus of $200,000 in 2013. http://espn.go.com/b...ing-fitzpatrick Edited January 31, 2013 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 This is a month old, but according to it ..... Starting quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick might be playing his final two games in a Buffalo Bills uniform. According to the details of Fitzpatrick's $59 million contract extension, the Bills are in prime position to get out of this agreement after another inconsistent season. ESPN.com's AFC East blog has learned Buffalo will save $4.45 million in cap space and $7.45 million in actual cash by cutting Fitzpatrick this offseason. Fitzpatrick is due a base salary of $4.25 million and an easy-to-obtain workout bonus of $200,000 in 2013. http://espn.go.com/b...ing-fitzpatrick I don't understand where these numbers come from. The numbers at this site match what Tim Graham published in a Buffalo News article a bit back. Most sources seem to say the Bills ill only save 1/10th of that 4.45 million figure in cap space (they will save some actual cash)
Dibs Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 This is a month old, but according to it ..... Starting quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick might be playing his final two games in a Buffalo Bills uniform. According to the details of Fitzpatrick's $59 million contract extension, the Bills are in prime position to get out of this agreement after another inconsistent season. ESPN.com's AFC East blog has learned Buffalo will save $4.45 million in cap space and $7.45 million in actual cash by cutting Fitzpatrick this offseason. Fitzpatrick is due a base salary of $4.25 million and an easy-to-obtain workout bonus of $200,000 in 2013. http://espn.go.com/b...ing-fitzpatrick I wonder if ESPN made a mistake(is that likely?). It seems to me that if a player is on the roster on the first day of the football year then they would achieve their roster bonus & subsequently be paid their bonus on the second day of the year. If ESPN is correct however, we have a one day window to save $3M by having Fitz start his new year but cut him before his roster bonus gets paid on the second day. Seems odd to me. I am also unsure where the last million comes from.....$0.45M plus $3M is only $3.45M....not $4.45M as reported. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Hopeful and Dibs which to believe neither of these sets of numbers seems to add up, - he gets an extra $3 mil bot only costs $.45???? You have ESPN and the Buffalo News .... It will not cost the Bills any more to cut him than to keep him on the team. Actually, they will save almost a half million dollars. Fitzpatrick is due a $3 million roster bonus in March. If he gets cut before that bonus is paid, then he will count $10 million against the Bills’ salary cap in 2013. That's a lot, but not so much that he will have to be retained. If Fitzpatrick is on the roster, his cap number for 2013 will be $10.45 million. Fitzpatrick's base salaries going forward are $4.25 million in 2013, $4.35 million in 2014, $7.2 million in 2015, $8.75 million in 2016 and $9.45 million in 2017. http://blogs.buffalonews.com/press-coverage/2012/12/fitz-has-received-21-million-of-deal.html
PaattMaann Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I agree that LeVitre won't get Nicks money, but I do think his agent is going to ask for it, and I don't think the Bills will come close to offering that much. The Bills will want to pay him $6-$7 million a year, LeVitre will be looking for $8-$9 million per, and I'm doubtful the Bills will invest that type of money at the G position. And I can't say I don't disagree if the Bills decide not to invest huge money at the G position. I really like Andy, he's a great player and I'd like to retain him but if the Bills are for real about analytics and moneyball I don't think they'll go down the road of investing primo money at a postion that, from a league perspective, isn't highly valued. But the main point of my original post was to show that the money squandered on Mark Anderson last year ($8 million), will likely be the gap between what the Bills offer LeVitre and what LeVitre is looking for. And boy do I think the Bills wish they could have a mulligan on Mark Anderson, because it was a costly, costly mistake. its not "LeVitre" its just "Levitre" - sorry, but it bothered me haha
Malazan Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 If they cut everyone on the team, think of the savings! The Bills need to have a lot free unused money!
QCity Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 I wonder if ESPN made a mistake(is that likely?). Well that article is by the AFC East blogger James Walker. I read his articles and can state that he makes a lot of mistakes! Here's the Fitz summary: D-Day is March 12th 4PM EST If Fitz is on the roster after that date we pay him $10.45M and we take a cap hit of $10.45M If Fitz is cut before that date, we pay him $3M and we take a cap hit of $10M. So cutting him may only save $0.45M in cap space, but it saves us $7.45M that we don't have to pay him (His contract calls for $24M guaranteed, and we have paid him $21M so far, so we still owe him $3M no matter what happens).
CardinalScotts Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Do you want to give Tackle money to a guard ? Goes against common football sense but we are so far under the cap- why not
3rdand12 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Believe me, there are people on this board who have said that. Maybe not those exact words, but very similar. I don't want to find out what it would be like to replace him. This is not just about Levitre, it's about keeping the entire O-Line together. This is a good group of guys and they appear to have built a good rapport with each other. I don't want to mess that up. I don't care where Levitre is ranked at. He's proven to be a valuable player on this team. If the Bills overpay to keep him, I do not see that as a big deal. The Bills have enough money to re-sign both Levitre & Byrd. They can always renegotiate contracts down the line. A valid point. However there were plenty of times this season when Fitz had "all day" to throw, even without maximum protection, and several times when defenses blitzed the O-Line did a good job in picking it up. I'll say it again, the O-Line is a strength on this team, and we should keep all the starters on it. Keeping an O line together costs money. The group we now have with LeVitre signed is a fair enough price to pay for continuity. Once again i think this comes back to the new coaching staff that is just now starting to " evaluate " the players. This is good for two solid reasons. A fresh set of eyes with a plan in place will be objective about these players. Marrone has a plan it feels to me. Hackett and Pettine do too. More importantly with these young energetic coaches is they will be instilling enthusiasm into a defeated group of guys. And pumping some life blood back into our team after the horrible gashing , rending tearing and crushing season that was last. Maybe players like Andy and Jairus will want to be here. They are young enough to tolerate another rebuild if they billieve in the new regime. I think they both will be here for all the right reasons next year and beyond.
Nitro Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 As I read the responses to the initial post I still beleive you have to sign and retain your top talent. Look at the snow ball effect in them letting Winfield walk. How many draft picks expended to replace him and he is still productive in Minnesota? Offensive lines are built on both talent and chemistry. Levitre is a valuable asset, he is a solid blocker and is versatile. There is a school of thought in the NFL that you don't pay a safety big money. Byrd has a nose for the ball and has good skills in coverage and tackling. As much as I love Byrd picking off passes (a much needed asset), having a solid line up front is a bigger need. If the Bills do have $20 million under the cap, sign both, dump non-productive vets (we pretty much know who) and build the core of the team through the draft. If they can't...then keep Levitre and bid Byrd a fond farewell and go thru the Winfield process again.
Rob's House Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 As I read the responses to the initial post I still beleive you have to sign and retain your top talent. Look at the snow ball effect in them letting Winfield walk. How many draft picks expended to replace him and he is still productive in Minnesota? Offensive lines are built on both talent and chemistry. Levitre is a valuable asset, he is a solid blocker and is versatile. There is a school of thought in the NFL that you don't pay a safety big money. Byrd has a nose for the ball and has good skills in coverage and tackling. As much as I love Byrd picking off passes (a much needed asset), having a solid line up front is a bigger need. If the Bills do have $20 million under the cap, sign both, dump non-productive vets (we pretty much know who) and build the core of the team through the draft. If they can't...then keep Levitre and bid Byrd a fond farewell and go thru the Winfield process again. I don't think anyone disagrees with you. The reality is that you can only pay so much. What do you think is a reasonable ceiling above which you're not willing to pay?
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