BrooklynBills Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 The eye test definitely lends itself to Wilfork being the stouter and thicker player. I think. When he came out of college, he was talked about as a potential NT or DT prospect. Dareus was someone who was said to have the ability to play all along the DL, but I think it was generally felt his best position was 5tech DE, then as a penetrating DT. Wanny's scheme typically asks the DTs to be space eaters on the inside first and foremost. In another brilliant decision by Gailey and co, this was just not a good fit for our DTs skill sets and I think this is why the DL got blown off the ball a lot. I could go on about how ill equipped we were to run the D we were running last year but that is for another thread. Rags, regardless of the relative size of Wilfork and Dareus, my point is more about where I think Dareus would excel. Can he play NT? Yes, I think he can. But, I think he can be an elite 34 DE similar to Ngata in Baltimore. And while, I think Kyle Williams will still have a role on defense, I just don't think he will be a focal point. But I think we agree that we are better suited for a 34 base than most people around here. I think some of the typical whipping boys like Sheppard will be much better in this D. One last thing on Wilfork v. Dareus. There is a great Wilfork article on grantland.com by Chris Brown(a different one) about how NE uses him and how he is the focal point of there whole defense. Really cool Xs and Os stuff. Id link but I'm on my phone and got to go.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I agree with both you guys that we're actually better equipped for a 3-4. That said, the D will probably be a hybrid cause if the Bills plan on playing any Fairbanks-Bullough type 2-gap scheme, they're still missing the NT, IMO. If the Bills were able to find one of these huge, athletic Samoan/Tongan guys in the 3rd or 4th round, that would be great. A boulder in the center with a DE rotation of Mario, Dareus, and Carrington? They'd be all set.
buffalobillsgrl Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Mark Anderson and Mario Williams have both played 3-4 OLB and been extremely successful. Williams Dareus Carrington - DL Anderson /Mario/ Sheppard / Barnett - LB just wondering where Moats is? Did we forget about him? or are we assuming he is cut?
mrags Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I agree to both BB and SJBF. I Didnt stress how I really felt about Dareus playing NT in a 3-4. I'm not saying he can't do it. It's obvious he could, just like K. Williams. But by no means do I want them to, at least in the long term. I think with a K. Williams on one side and Dareus on the other with a big monster in the middle would be a sick DL. Add to that a LB corp of Merriman/Moore playing one side and Mario/Anderson playing the other would be awesome. Add in the fact that we need some MLBs, but like you have said, you think Shephard would play better here (I agree) and Barnett, not exactly great, might get a little bit rejuvenated again. Throw in Moats, Carrington, Bradham, Johnson into the mix and you have some guys that can be moved around into different roles.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I wasn't impressed with the bloated-up Dareus this last season. He put on the weight but lost his quickness and was too often beat at the POA.
3rdand12 Posted January 26, 2013 Author Posted January 26, 2013 I wasn't impressed with the bloated-up Dareus this last season. He put on the weight but lost his quickness and was too often beat at the POA. I am over reacting, but i already expect the front seven if not the whole defense , to be focused and enthusiasitic.Last year they just looked lost like they did not believe in the coach from the get go. And it went downhill from there. New synergy and smarts will prevail. at thsi point we can see most of the guys fitting even if the roles change. You guys have taken each player and explained why they could succeed. If we can do that i bet Mike P can do that even better. We still need to grab a linebacker in the draft, or two and find a space eater whether FA or Troup. Then settle in on the corner opposite Gilmore. He might already be on the team though in Brooks. To quote "we are not that far away ". lol But really there is hope for a strong aggressive defense to be fielded by the Bills this year. I will say again coaching makes a world of difference. And Chris. I'm still pissed too!
BrooklynBills Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I agree to both BB and SJBF. I Didnt stress how I really felt about Dareus playing NT in a 3-4. I'm not saying he can't do it. It's obvious he could, just like K. Williams. But by no means do I want them to, at least in the long term. I think with a K. Williams on one side and Dareus on the other with a big monster in the middle would be a sick DL. Add to that a LB corp of Merriman/Moore playing one side and Mario/Anderson playing the other would be awesome. Add in the fact that we need some MLBs, but like you have said, you think Shephard would play better here (I agree) and Barnett, not exactly great, might get a little bit rejuvenated again. Throw in Moats, Carrington, Bradham, Johnson into the mix and you have some guys that can be moved around into different roles. Ideally, you'd be looking at Carrington - NT - Dareus in a 3 man line. Or maybe Mario - NT - Dareus, with Carrington as a rotational guy. Mario could play some OLB as well, but I think his role will just be simply as pass rusher. Kyle Williams would come in on 4 man front looks. They still need that every down LB and a combo DE/LB,
mrags Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Ideally, you'd be looking at Carrington - NT - Dareus in a 3 man line. Or maybe Mario - NT - Dareus, with Carrington as a rotational guy. Mario could play some OLB as well, but I think his role will just be simply as pass rusher. Kyle Williams would come in on 4 man front looks. They still need that every down LB and a combo DE/LB, id agree. Could make Moore that much more impressive.
K-9 Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Kyle Williams will never be a DE in in any scheme. Kyle Moore is one of the worst run defenders I've ever seen at the DE position and he would be even more exposed against the run as an OLB in a 34. He's a pass rush specialist. Period. GO BILLS!!!
Shoutbox Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 It's worth mentioning here that there are only 9 DL/LB players currently on this roster that the Bills have made a substantial investment in, by contract (KW, MW, Anderson, Barnett) or by draft pick (Dareus, Carrington, Troup, Sheppard, Bradham). Everyone else is either a late round pick or a free agent signing who can be released with a negligible dead cap hit (or is named Chris Kelsay and should just retire immediately). Let's review the 9 players: 1. KW - drafted in 2006 as a 4-3 DT, can also play 3-4 NT very well in certain schemes. 2. Troup - drafted in 2010 as a 3-4 NT, can also play 4-3 DT according to his college history. 3. Carrington - drafted in 2010 as a 3-4 DE, played very well as a 4-3 DT last season. 4. Dareus - drafted in 2011 as a 3-4 DE, also plays 4-3 DT equally well, can also fill in at 3-4 NT 5. Sheppard - drafted in 2011 as a 3-4 ILB, played 4-3 MLB but appears to be a little too slow to be a long-term starter at this position 6. Barnett - signed in 2011 as a 3-4 ILB, has plenty of career experience at 4-3 WOLB 7. MW - signed in 2012 as a 4-3 LDE, is a unique talent with the body size to play 4-3 RDE, either 3-4 DE position, 3-4 OLB, and maybe even 4-3 DT on occasion. 8. Anderson - signed in 2012 as a 4-3 RDE, has the size to play standing 3-4 OLB but not sure how good his cover skills would be here. 9. Bradham - drafted in 2012 as a 4-3 WOLB/SOLB, would probably play 3-4 ILB, doesn't really have the pass rushing skills to play 3-4 OLB So for the most part, these guys have enough versatility to play in either defense package but with a slight preference toward the 4-3 base. Coach Pettine will undoubtedly continue with this "versatility" theme and only drafts or signs guys who can play well enough in either.
BrooklynBills Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 It's worth mentioning here that there are only 9 DL/LB players currently on this roster that the Bills have made a substantial investment in, by contract (KW, MW, Anderson, Barnett) or by draft pick (Dareus, Carrington, Troup, Sheppard, Bradham). Everyone else is either a late round pick or a free agent signing who can be released with a negligible dead cap hit (or is named Chris Kelsay and should just retire immediately). Let's review the 9 players: 1. KW - drafted in 2006 as a 4-3 DT, can also play 3-4 NT very well in certain schemes. 2. Troup - drafted in 2010 as a 3-4 NT, can also play 4-3 DT according to his college history. 3. Carrington - drafted in 2010 as a 3-4 DE, played very well as a 4-3 DT last season. 4. Dareus - drafted in 2011 as a 3-4 DE, also plays 4-3 DT equally well, can also fill in at 3-4 NT 5. Sheppard - drafted in 2011 as a 3-4 ILB, played 4-3 MLB but appears to be a little too slow to be a long-term starter at this position 6. Barnett - signed in 2011 as a 3-4 ILB, has plenty of career experience at 4-3 WOLB 7. MW - signed in 2012 as a 4-3 LDE, is a unique talent with the body size to play 4-3 RDE, either 3-4 DE position, 3-4 OLB, and maybe even 4-3 DT on occasion. 8. Anderson - signed in 2012 as a 4-3 RDE, has the size to play standing 3-4 OLB but not sure how good his cover skills would be here. 9. Bradham - drafted in 2012 as a 4-3 WOLB/SOLB, would probably play 3-4 ILB, doesn't really have the pass rushing skills to play 3-4 OLB So for the most part, these guys have enough versatility to play in either defense package but with a slight preference toward the 4-3 base. Coach Pettine will undoubtedly continue with this "versatility" theme and only drafts or signs guys who can play well enough in either. That's a good breakdown. I think the versatility of the some guys already on the roster may have contributed to Pettine coming here. Two things will be important to keep an eye on IMO: Mario Williams and our first round draft pick. Can Pettine convince Mario that he will excel as a roving type of DL who will at times play 34 DE, 34 OLB, 43 DE, and 43 DT? Because I could see him lining up at all those positions and being effective in this D. He is a unique player. Can Pettine motivate him to get out of his comfort zone a little? There are several elite DE/LB prospects in the top 10 of the draft.
Shoutbox Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 That's a good breakdown. I think the versatility of the some guys already on the roster may have contributed to Pettine coming here. Two things will be important to keep an eye on IMO: Mario Williams and our first round draft pick. Can Pettine convince Mario that he will excel as a roving type of DL who will at times play 34 DE, 34 OLB, 43 DE, and 43 DT? Because I could see him lining up at all those positions and being effective in this D. He is a unique player. Can Pettine motivate him to get out of his comfort zone a little? There are several elite DE/LB prospects in the top 10 of the draft. As long as Mario is rushing the passer on every passing down and is never in coverage, I think he will be happy. As for the 1st round draft pick, the Bills need to pick Moore or Werner if they fall to us regardless of the QB situation. A 4-3 base DL of Moore/Werner - Dareus - KW - MW would be the best in the NFL when all four are healthy. Jones, Mingo, and Howard are also very intriguing as rush LB's and would be worth the 8th pick if the Bills are confident that they can land their preferred QB in the 2nd round.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Defensive line talent dominated the Senior Bowl. It could be a chance to draft someone and trade Anderson.
mrags Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Defensive line talent dominated the Senior Bowl. It could be a chance to draft someone and trade Anderson. id doubt we get anything for him. Taking a guy that was questioned if he was a product of the system in NE to being injured and flaming out in his first year away from the Pats. Doubt you get nything for a guy that most teams would question why were getting rid of him so quickly.
ganesh Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 lol. Still a little angry about Wannstadt ? And does Pettine use a headset ? (Just going back by a decade :-)) Defensive line talent dominated the Senior Bowl. It could be a chance to draft someone and trade Anderson. I doubt Anderson has any trade value. Anyways I see us cutting Spencer Johnson and Chris Kelsay this summer...Which means we have enough roster spots for DL. It's worth mentioning here that there are only 9 DL/LB players currently on this roster that the Bills have made a substantial investment in, by contract (KW, MW, Anderson, Barnett) or by draft pick (Dareus, Carrington, Troup, Sheppard, Bradham). Everyone else is either a late round pick or a free agent signing who can be released with a negligible dead cap hit (or is named Chris Kelsay and should just retire immediately). Let's review the 9 players: 1. KW - drafted in 2006 as a 4-3 DT, can also play 3-4 NT very well in certain schemes. 2. Troup - drafted in 2010 as a 3-4 NT, can also play 4-3 DT according to his college history. 3. Carrington - drafted in 2010 as a 3-4 DE, played very well as a 4-3 DT last season. 4. Dareus - drafted in 2011 as a 3-4 DE, also plays 4-3 DT equally well, can also fill in at 3-4 NT 5. Sheppard - drafted in 2011 as a 3-4 ILB, played 4-3 MLB but appears to be a little too slow to be a long-term starter at this position 6. Barnett - signed in 2011 as a 3-4 ILB, has plenty of career experience at 4-3 WOLB 7. MW - signed in 2012 as a 4-3 LDE, is a unique talent with the body size to play 4-3 RDE, either 3-4 DE position, 3-4 OLB, and maybe even 4-3 DT on occasion. 8. Anderson - signed in 2012 as a 4-3 RDE, has the size to play standing 3-4 OLB but not sure how good his cover skills would be here. 9. Bradham - drafted in 2012 as a 4-3 WOLB/SOLB, would probably play 3-4 ILB, doesn't really have the pass rushing skills to play 3-4 OLB So for the most part, these guys have enough versatility to play in either defense package but with a slight preference toward the 4-3 base. Coach Pettine will undoubtedly continue with this "versatility" theme and only drafts or signs guys who can play well enough in either. I don't want players who "can play" the position. I want players who "excel" at their position. This has really been a big problem with the Bills for the past decade. They have tried to fit square pegs in round holes....
BrooklynBills Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 One thing is for sure about Pettine's D. It has many elements of the 3-4 and the 46, both of which require a true NT.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 I doubt Anderson has any trade value. Anyways I see us cutting Spencer Johnson and Chris Kelsay this summer...Which means we have enough roster spots for DL. There is that. Maybe a 7th rounder from a team happy to have him stand around in street clothes for a year?
mrags Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 There is that. Maybe a 7th rounder from a team happy to have him stand around in street clothes for a year? we already have him though. In future news: The Buffalo Bills are the first team in NFL history to give up a draft pick in the upcoming draft for a player they already have on their roster. Buddy Nix was interviewed about the trade and said "Weeeel, we have a Guuuui that WEEE think can be a deeeference maker at hees position. WEEE fielt like it was the right move at the time"
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 we already have him though. In future news: The Buffalo Bills are the first team in NFL history to give up a draft pick in the upcoming draft for a player they already have on their roster. Buddy Nix was interviewed about the trade and said "Weeeel, we have a Guuuui that WEEE think can be a deeeference maker at hees position. WEEE fielt like it was the right move at the time" Are you saying that Buddy Nix is the only guy in the NFL that would trade a 7th rounder for Anderson?
mrags Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Are you saying that Buddy Nix is the only guy in the NFL that would trade a 7th rounder for Anderson? your missing my comical side to this thread. Buddy and the inept Buffalo FO may be the only team stupid enough to give up draft picks for a player they already have on the roster. Thanks for making me explain in detail my joke and make it not even remotely funny anymore.
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