Pettines Defense

[hondo in seattle]

Pettine already said that we're staying a 43 so I don't see the point of this thread.

 

I've never heard him say that he'll keep us in a 4-3 base. Maybe the closest he comes to actually saying something like this is in this piece from Chris Brown:

 

Bills new defensive coordinator Mike Pettine was asked in a 1-on-1 interview with Buffalobills.com if he’s married to the 3-4 base defense coming to Buffalo. Here was his response.

 

“I’m not. Again it’s a situation where I think people try to compartmentalize too much and just broad stroke it 3-4, 4-3, what are you? And my answer to that question is yes to all of the above,” Pettine told Buffalobills.com. ”We are a multiple front, attacking, pressure-style defense. We’re going to play man coverage, we’re going to play zone coverage. What we’re going to do defensively is take advantage of what our players do well.

 

“I’m not bringing in a defense, this is going to be the Buffalo Bills defense. It’s going to be built around the explosive athletes that are here. Again starting with the front and that’s the solid foundation here and moving to the linebackers and secondary stacked behind them. It made the decision so much easier for me looking at the roster.”

Edited January 25, 2013 by hondo in seattle

[l< j]

Can anyone shed any light on how this flexibility would affect CB or S play? The differences in skills and responsibilities for LBs and DLs in moving from a 4-3 to 3-4 and back--that makes sense to me. But as a non-football guy, I don't get what happens differently behind the front 7. Is there necessarily an impact on DB play when you change the front? And how would that relate to the guys we have?

 

Thanks, and pardon the ignorance.

 

kj

[K-9]

Can anyone shed any light on how this flexibility would affect CB or S play? The differences in skills and responsibilities for LBs and DLs in moving from a 4-3 to 3-4 and back--that makes sense to me. But as a non-football guy, I don't get what happens differently behind the front 7. Is there necessarily an impact on DB play when you change the front? And how would that relate to the guys we have?

 

Thanks, and pardon the ignorance.

 

kj

 

The short answer is no.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited January 25, 2013 by K-9

[Adam]

It all depends on what technique and gap responsibilities you want the lineman to play.

[NewEra]

Pettine already said that we're staying a 43 so I don't see the point of this thread.

 

My bet is that this guy doesn't post in this thread again, as his post is one of the worst of the new year. You're clueless.

 

But now he'll post because I posted this.

[bobobonators]

There is nothing now nor will there ever be anything about Kyle Williams that even remotely resembles a DE in the 34, 43, or any other front you can conjure up. He's a one-gap DT and a damned good one at that. He'll be the NT in any 34 we play and he won't be asked to be a 2-gap NT while doing so. He'd be used like the NT in a Wade Phillips 34.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

yup

[BrooklynBills]

Can anyone shed any light on how this flexibility would affect CB or S play? The differences in skills and responsibilities for LBs and DLs in moving from a 4-3 to 3-4 and back--that makes sense to me. But as a non-football guy, I don't get what happens differently behind the front 7. Is there necessarily an impact on DB play when you change the front? And how would that relate to the guys we have?

 

Thanks, and pardon the ignorance.

 

kj

 

The coverage schemes can lean towards more man or zone coverage, more blitzing from the secondary, etc. But the techniques are the same for the most part. The Ravens and Jets both seem to prefer a good run supporting SS.

 

Not sure if the Jets or Ravens are using a modern twist in zone coverage called pattern-match coverage. I'm not a huge Xs and Os guy, but it is a technique where the secondary plays zone coverage but within there zones they cover the receivers as if it were man on man and there is a lot of switching off coverage between defenders. I know New England does this and Alabama teaches this in college. But I honestly don't know much more about it. And my understanding of it could be wrong.

[l< j]

Thanks for that

[vincec]

Not sure if the Jets or Ravens are using a modern twist in zone coverage called pattern-match coverage. I'm not a huge Xs and Os guy, but it is a technique where the secondary plays zone coverage but within there zones they cover the receivers as if it were man on man and there is a lot of switching off coverage between defenders. I know New England does this and Alabama teaches this in college. But I honestly don't know much more about it. And my understanding of it could be wrong.

I believe that this is also known as a matchup zone and I don't think it's that new to the NFL. I see other teams using it alot and I seem to remember a fair amount of it with the Bills under Perry Fewell. Here's more information that you ever wanted to know on the subject: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8428129/dick-lebeau-evolution-coverage-tactics-zone-blitz

[3rdand12]

Pettine already said that we're staying a 43 so I don't see the point of this thread.

Flea i have read about as much as can about and by Pettine lately and i did not get that at all.

But he said he certainly could use a 4-3 base and did use a 4-6.

 

The point of my thread was that:

If we are keeping two line backer coaches then, it is likely we will start with a 3-4 base. Only five teams staff that way and the ALL use the 3-4.

I realize he is not held to any naming and runs multiple fronts which i am excited for, and i hope the players are too.

 

Kyle Williams is an attacking lineman who holds his own against the run.

I can think of 0 reasons to let him go.

But i am just a big fan of his and certainly not the coach. And i am biased !!

[chris heff]

This has nothing to do with what the base defense will be, I'm just curious. Does Pettine coach from the box or on the sideline?

[3rdand12]

This has nothing to do with what the base defense will be, I'm just curious. Does Pettine coach from the box or on the sideline?

lol.

Still a little angry about Wannstadt ?

[eball]

But...but...but...what happened to all of the hand-wringing and umpteen threads about whether the Bills will be a 3-4 or 4-3 and how devastating it is to change again?

[mrags]

We are so weak at the linebacker position that going to a 3-4 base sounds scary. if we didn't have the linebackers to do a 4-3, no way do we have enough for a 3-4, even if you throw merriman in there. For a team that has spent so many offseason grabbing dlinemen, going to a 3-4 base will just pull away from that. If this coaching ensemble goes to a 3-4, and they put Kelsey at OLB because they dont have enough linebackers, I am going to lose my mind.

 

I am not sure what defense base they are going to run, but having two linebacker coaches is very telling.

i disagree with this completely. We may be weak on the LB side of a 4-3 but were actually no looking so bad for a 3-4 (if we keep Maybin that is).

 

Mario played OLB at Houston and had his strongest start in his career.

 

Merriman is a true 3-4 OLB.

 

Barnett is a MLB in the 3-4.

 

Moats can play OLB in a 3-4 as a pass rusher better than he can in coverage as a 4-3 and much better than a DE in a 4-3.

 

Shephard was originally taken to be a MLB in a 3-4 and so far as we can tell he's no better at either position.

 

Then looking at the DL we are not that bad. As someone already pointed out, Dareus is just as big as Wilfork and could be asked to man the middle. If not, he makes a pretty good LDE in a 3-4.

 

Williams has played almost every position on the DLine in both the 3-4 and 4-3 with the exception of DE in a 4-3. He's played them almost equally and there is no doubt he is at least versatile.

 

Carrington was originally picked up to be a 3-4 DE and he's proved he is not only getting better but ca move around between 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, potentially 4-3 DT in a bind, or 3-4 OLB in a bind. Not saying I'd want him to, but he could. Realistically, I see him as making his biggest impact as a 3-4 DE.

 

Spencer Johnson could make it as a DT in a 4-3, or a DE in a 3-4 about equally. That's about all I'd want to see out if him.

 

Mark Anderson didn't show us anything last year so who the hell knows what we've got. He could be horrible and a product of the Pats but he fits the size of a 4-3 DE of course. Could fit the 3-4 OLB if needed, probably a little small for 3-4 DE.

 

Moore is a wild card at this point. Could potentially play OLB in a 3-4. He seems like a clone of Merriman to me. Quick, powerful, has a low dip move that gets him outside. Comes back inside quickly as he over pursues his linemen. Seems like he's best suited for 4-3 DE, but could potentially play the OLB in a 3-4 very well as an edge rusher. Maybe to spell Merriman, or the other way around.

 

Did I forget anyone?

 

Just my .02

[Sisyphean Bills]

He knows what a blitz is at least.

[BrooklynBills]

i disagree with this completely. We may be weak on the LB side of a 4-3 but were actually no looking so bad for a 3-4 (if we keep Maybin that is).

 

Mario played OLB at Houston and had his strongest start in his career.

 

Merriman is a true 3-4 OLB.

 

Barnett is a MLB in the 3-4.

 

Moats can play OLB in a 3-4 as a pass rusher better than he can in coverage as a 4-3 and much better than a DE in a 4-3.

 

Shephard was originally taken to be a MLB in a 3-4 and so far as we can tell he's no better at either position.

 

Then looking at the DL we are not that bad. As someone already pointed out, Dareus is just as big as Wilfork and could be asked to man the middle. If not, he makes a pretty good LDE in a 3-4.

 

Williams has played almost every position on the DLine in both the 3-4 and 4-3 with the exception of DE in a 4-3. He's played them almost equally and there is no doubt he is at least versatile.

 

Carrington was originally picked up to be a 3-4 DE and he's proved he is not only getting better but ca move around between 3-4 DE, 4-3 DE, potentially 4-3 DT in a bind, or 3-4 OLB in a bind. Not saying I'd want him to, but he could. Realistically, I see him as making his biggest impact as a 3-4 DE.

 

Spencer Johnson could make it as a DT in a 4-3, or a DE in a 3-4 about equally. That's about all I'd want to see out if him.

 

Mark Anderson didn't show us anything last year so who the hell knows what we've got. He could be horrible and a product of the Pats but he fits the size of a 4-3 DE of course. Could fit the 3-4 OLB if needed, probably a little small for 3-4 DE.

 

Moore is a wild card at this point. Could potentially play OLB in a 3-4. He seems like a clone of Merriman to me. Quick, powerful, has a low dip move that gets him outside. Comes back inside quickly as he over pursues his linemen. Seems like he's best suited for 4-3 DE, but could potentially play the OLB in a 3-4 very well as an edge rusher. Maybe to spell Merriman, or the other way around.

 

Did I forget anyone?

 

Just my .02

 

I agree for the most part with your post except for these statements. Wilfork entered the league at 6'1 325 and I'm sure he's up to 340 range during the season. Dareus is 6'3 and played DE in college at around 306 and at around 315 his rookie year. He weighed in at the combine at 319 and was quoted as saying that he needed to lose weight because he wasn't as comfortable playing at such a high weight level. So last season of course, the Bills wanted him to bulk up to 330 and he did, and I thought he looked very uncomfortable at that size. He would arguably have to add even more weight to play NT. So Wilfork is naturally more stout and more comfortable carrying that weight than Dareus is. He has probably added about 10 - 15 lbs. to his playing weight since college. Dareus, on the other hand, has added almost 30 pounds and he would still be a smaller NT. I think he would excel as DE in this defense, like Wilkerson with the Jets has blossomed into a good player or like Ngata or Arthur Jones with the Ravens.

 

Kyle Williams has been a part of every bad defense we have put together the last 6-7 years. He is a good player, but I think in this defense he will become a situational player, which may actually be great for him and add some years to his career. I don't think he would start at NT or DE, but would come in on 4 man fronts or in certain passing situations. Again, I think this would be good for him.

[chris heff]

lol.

Still a little angry about Wannstadt ?

Yup

[mrags]

 

 

I agree for the most part with your post except for these statements. Wilfork entered the league at 6'1 325 and I'm sure he's up to 340 range during the season. Dareus is 6'3 and played DE in college at around 306 and at around 315 his rookie year. He weighed in at the combine at 319 and was quoted as saying that he needed to lose weight because he wasn't as comfortable playing at such a high weight level. So last season of course, the Bills wanted him to bulk up to 330 and he did, and I thought he looked very uncomfortable at that size. He would arguably have to add even more weight to play NT. So Wilfork is naturally more stout and more comfortable carrying that weight than Dareus is. He has probably added about 10 - 15 lbs. to his playing weight since college. Dareus, on the other hand, has added almost 30 pounds and he would still be a smaller NT. I think he would excel as DE in this defense, like Wilkerson with the Jets has blossomed into a good player or like Ngata or Arthur Jones with the Ravens.

 

Kyle Williams has been a part of every bad defense we have put together the last 6-7 years. He is a good player, but I think in this defense he will become a situational player, which may actually be great for him and add some years to his career. I don't think he would start at NT or DE, but would come in on 4 man fronts or in certain passing situations. Again, I think this would be good for him.

thank you first and foremost.

 

As it is stated on the Pats website, VW is listed as 325. Marcel, according to the Bills website is listed at 331. So based off the only factual evidence we have to go by, Dareus is bigger than Vince and if he's uncomfortable, he can even lose a few pounds and still be at about the right weight.

 

Of course that means nothing. Someone with a large amount of weight can easily be pushed around or else Jasper would be an all star in this league.

 

As you said, of course VW is more comfortable with it, he's a top notch DT in the league. If Dareus was even half as good I think we'd be in pretty good shape.

 

I also agree with Kyle. I've never thought he was anything special. He's good, but IMO, very over rated. But he has played on many different positions on the DLine and could fit in anywhere needed at just about any time.

 

Again, thanks for the props on the rest of it.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

thank you first and foremost.

 

As it is stated on the Pats website, VW is listed as 325. Marcel, according to the Bills website is listed at 331. So based off the only factual evidence we have to go by, Dareus is bigger than Vince and if he's uncomfortable, he can even lose a few pounds and still be at about the right weight.

 

And what do your eyes tell you about the relative sizes of Wilfork and Dareus?

 

Anways, Dareus as a draft prospect was characterized as a slightly larger Warren Sapp; a guy who played with quickness, explosion, and leverage.

 

We didn't see enough of that this year. Makes you wonder if he should go back to 319 pounds he was at the combine from the 340 pounds he was said to have played at this year.

 

Listed heights and weights only take us so far.

[mrags]

 

 

And what do your eyes tell you about the relative sizes of Wilfork and Dareus?

 

Anways, Dareus as a draft prospect was characterized as a slightly larger Warren Sapp; a guy who played with quickness, explosion, and leverage.

 

We didn't see enough of that this year. Makes you wonder if he should go back to 319 pounds he was at the combine from the 340 pounds he was said to have played at this year.

 

Listed heights and weights only take us so far.

cant argue it. Was simply stating what the truth is based off the only real factual information that we can go by.

 

That's unless someone here on this board knows Marcel and Vince personally and can ask them what thier REAL weight is.

 

Damn, where's Skooby when you need him.