Fixxxer Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Kelly's point is that there are a lot posts saying that Nix doesn't have a clue what to look for in a QB and we're doomed because he won't be able to select a good one this year. The snide comments about this are all over the board. What we know is that Buddy liked Newton and would have drafted him if he was available at #3, other mentions about QBs were in terms of what he was looking for in a prospect (always with Gailey's offense mind) Strong enough arm, good mobility, good enough size for the position, ample college experience (# of starts) I'm sure those parameters are not changed. My take is that NIx had good communication with Gailey and they decided to keep drafting other positions because they agreed Fitz was good enough to put points on the board to win games. They chose a plan and that plan failed, it doesn't mean Nix doesn't know talent at the most important position in football. Can he fail, of course he can, but until he does not pull the trigger on one as the Bills GM, the posts claiming he doesn't have what it takes to select a good QB are wrong.
Bill from NYC Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I almost think an average fan can do just as good a job for the Bills by studying draft sites, senior bowl games and watching the combine. (tongue in cheek) There are fans who could have done a better job than what we have seen from the Bills front office people, and I am being totally serious. In 2006, it might not be possible to do worse than Levy/Jauron. They entered this draft with the #8, and an extra early 3rd round pick. They came away with Donte Whittner, Josh McCargo, and Ashton Youboty, and this draft was stocked with talent. This is only one example. So yes, the Bills usually draft at the level of a teenage kid who watches a little youtube and has a few draft magazines. Sometimes worse.
JPS Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Kelly's point is that there are a lot posts saying that Nix doesn't have a clue what to look for in a QB and we're doomed because he won't be able to select a good one this year. The snide comments about this are all over the board. What we know is that Buddy liked Newton and would have drafted him if he was available at #3, other mentions about QBs were in terms of what he was looking for in a prospect (always with Gailey's offense mind) Strong enough arm, good mobility, good enough size for the position, ample college experience (# of starts) I'm sure those parameters are not changed. My take is that NIx had good communication with Gailey and they decided to keep drafting other positions because they agreed Fitz was good enough to put points on the board to win games. They chose a plan and that plan failed, it doesn't mean Nix doesn't know talent at the most important position in football. Can he fail, of course he can, but until he does not pull the trigger on one as the Bills GM, the posts claiming he doesn't have what it takes to select a good QB are wrong. I would argue that if Buddy DID know QB talent, he wouldn't have passed on the 4 franchise QBs that he could have had. He wouldn't have given Fitz such a huge contract after 5 decent games. And he wouldn't have leaned on Gailey so much (about QBs). It's still Buddy bashing, but at least it's on point.
The Senator Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I believe the crux of the matter is that Buddy believe Chan when he told him that he could win with Fitz, so he turned his attention elsewhere because this team had so many holes. When Fitz put the lie to that, Buddy put his buddy out on the street. Now without question, he knows he's got to get a QB. . What Nanker said. Plus, Buddy was busy building strong front lines on both sides of the ball. Plus we weren't in the best position to draft the best available QBs in Buddy's previous drafts. Plus, he was always waiting for Matt Barkley to graduate anyway! JMO... GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!!
mannc Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 So every GM who hs whiffed on some players is a buffoon. So the GM's who let Urbik go, Pears go and who thought Cordy Glenn was a guard....what are they? JJ Watt could be the next Roid bust and Dareus could have a huge year next year. You probably thought Eric Moulds was a bust because his first two years were awful. You can't just cherry pick the bad without crediting him with the good. We are strong in the trenches thanks to Buddy. He's being phased out so quit the bile. Not sure if all the GMs you mention are buffoons but this one sure is. And hearing him interviewed on the radio cements my opinion of him. (By the way, I doubt the GMs who cut Urbik and Pears are losing much sleep over those moves. Despite the clamor here, the Bills' o-line is very far from elite--it is merely better than it was when it was putrid a couple years ago.)
Meathead Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 My take is that NIx had good communication with Gailey and they decided to keep drafting other positions because they agreed Fitz was good enough to put points on the board to win games. They chose a plan and that plan failed, it doesn't mean Nix doesn't know talent at the most important position in football. thats my take too fans are in a feeding frenzy hating on both fitz and buddy but rationally there were solid reasons to be optimistic that fitz would improve last season. first, he wasnt going to be having the problems with his ribs that seemed to coincide directly with his decline the season prior. second, they had just hired the best qb coach in the game. and third, it was another full offseason in the offense as we know now, that did not materialize. fitz wasnt nearly as bad as most fans are retroacitvely projecting, but he certainly did not elevate his game as everyone expected. his short and intermediate game is pretty good, but his inability to stretch the field was and is a killer and if he doesnt find a way to change that his days as a starter are permanently over theres no way buddy could have known thats how it would play out, of course. still, i do think it was a mistake not to take at least a mid-round qb last draft. i realize they had some pretty pressing needs elsewhere but they could be so much further ahead now if they had taken somebody to develop while the fitz saga played out now that they are behind the curve i wouldnt be surprised at all if they took two qbs this draft, just to increase their odds. they know they must hit on one so why not
bisonbrigade Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Did anyone else hear John Murphy tell Bulldog today on WGR that Marrone was at the SB pratices Tuesday but was now back in Buffalo meeting with his staff concerning the current roster? Should he not be in Mobile watching practices like Sean Payton and other real NFL coaches? He made his decision of who he wanted, what's the point of staying?
Green Lightning Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Not sure if all the GMs you mention are buffoons but this one sure is. And hearing him interviewed on the radio cements my opinion of him. (By the way, I doubt the GMs who cut Urbik and Pears are losing much sleep over those moves. Despite the clamor here, the Bills' o-line is very far from elite--it is merely better than it was when it was putrid a couple years ago.) Don't you have algebra homework to do? School on Monday comes faster than you think. And given your prior posts, you make a great case for longer school days.
JohnC Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 as we know now, that did not materialize. fitz wasnt nearly as bad as most fans are retroacitvely projecting, but he certainly did not elevate his game as everyone expected. his short and intermediate game is pretty good, but his inability to stretch the field was and is a killer and if he doesnt find a way to change that his days as a starter are permanently over theres no way buddy could have known thats how it would play out, of course. still, i do think it was a mistake not to take at least a mid-round qb last draft. i realize they had some pretty pressing needs elsewhere but they could be so much further ahead now if they had taken somebody to develop while the fitz saga played out now that they are behind the curve i wouldnt be surprised at all if they took two qbs this draft, just to increase their odds. they know they must hit on one so why not How does one elevate one's game beyond one's limited ablities? The limitations Fitz had with respect to accuracy and arm strength always existed. You can't fix flaws that ae not fixable. Nix and Gailey simply misjuded a player that was easy to judge. Fitz never was a starting caliber qb----he was always a backup talent. The way this organization mishandled this specific qb issue is also emblematic on how it has handled the drafts and player evaluations in general. Compared to teams such as Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Green Bay this organization lags in the scouting department. Nix's drafts are not much better or even worse than the Levy/Modrak malaise era.
KOKBILLS Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 There are fans who could have done a better job than what we have seen from the Bills front office people, and I am being totally serious. In 2006, it might not be possible to do worse than Levy/Jauron. They entered this draft with the #8, and an extra early 3rd round pick. They came away with Donte Whittner, Josh McCargo, and Ashton Youboty, and this draft was stocked with talent. This is only one example. So yes, the Bills usually draft at the level of a teenage kid who watches a little youtube and has a few draft magazines. Sometimes worse. Unfortunately too true Bill...Too true...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) That was a lot of writing... Buddy Nix Drafted Aaron Williams over Dalton and Kaepernick...TJ Graham over Russell Wilson... Sorry, but that's all I need to know... Agree with you on this one. The math is very easy. No need to waste paragraphs defending the record of a GM who has been mediocre so far. I hope he gets it right this year. Meh...the big pieces they added were Aldon Smith and Navarro Bowman--which were excellent moves. Rest of the additions on defense were role players like Whitner and Carlos Rogers. Offense remained largely the same with the exception of Kaepernick, who didn't really play any significant role in the team's initial turn around. Coaching was a huge piece. Agree with you on this debate. Slight tangent here. It's funny when I hear things like "players win and coaches coach" or "players make coaches look good" or "show me a good coach and I'll show you a talented team" or other such nonsense. Do people really think the Bills would have gone 16-32 with Jim or John Harbaugh coaching instead of Chan Gailey? Good coaches have teams that overachieve. Bad coaches have teams that underachieve. The difference if often making or not making the playoffs. There's a reason Bum Phillips said what he said of Don Shula. Back on topic, Buddy was very good to Chan. Buddy gave Chan three full years and supported and staunchly defended him until the very end. From all appearances, Buddy allowed Chan to make the coaching hires and personnel decisions that Chan desired, and tried to acquire players that Chan wanted (ie- CJ Spiller, Brad Smith). Buddy is lucky to have the opportunity to make a second go round on a Head Coach (I said this was possible numerous times during the fall when things were going badly; that Nix could stay even if Chan was canned). Some but not all GMs get a second chance. Hopefully our 4th year GM has learned from his mistakes. Edited January 26, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan
The Senator Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 There are fans who could have done a better job than what we have seen from the Bills front office people, and I am being totally serious. In 2006, it might not be possible to do worse than Levy/Jauron. They entered this draft with the #8, and an extra early 3rd round pick. They came away with Donte Whittner, Josh McCargo, and Ashton Youboty, and this draft was stocked with talent. This is only one example. So yes, the Bills usually draft at the level of a teenage kid who watches a little youtube and has a few draft magazines. Sometimes worse. . Yes, Bill... Walt Patulski was a bad pick as well. Gee, our old LaSalle ran great... (Why are we still bemoaning the Levy/Jauron era????)
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 How does one elevate one's game beyond one's limited ablities? The limitations Fitz had with respect to accuracy and arm strength always existed. You can't fix flaws that ae not fixable. Nix and Gailey simply misjuded a player that was easy to judge. Fitz never was a starting caliber qb----he was always a backup talent. It is true that Fitz (in retrospect for me), was always a backup talent. I hoped for more but was wrong. However the ironic answer to the bolded above is one word: competition. In most athletic endeavors, competition has a way of extracting that final few percent of performance and it was the one thing Chan and Buddy never provided for Fitz. I personally do not share the belief that you make your starting QB cozy and secure. The only starting QBs who should feel secure are the guys who've actually earned it. Incumbency is not something you just give to someone hoping that it improves their performance. I believe that competition brings out the best in people, especially with regards to NFL quarterbacks. Why would you want someone in that job who can't handle the pressure of a job competition? Are fighter pilots just given their jobs with a large vat of piece of mind or are they evaluated and judged every time they go up in that plane? Bottom line, Fitz could have been a bit better had Chan and Buddy pushed him. AND If Fitz had lost a competition it would only mean that the Buffalo Bills would have a better starting quarterback (and a better backup too).
JohnC Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 However the ironic answer to the bolded above is one word: competition. In most athletic endeavors, competition has a way of extracting that final few percent of performance and it was the one thing Chan and Buddy never provided for Fitz. I personally do not share the belief that you make your starting QB cozy and secure. The only starting QBs who should feel secure are the guys who've actually earned it. Incumbency is not something you just give to someone hoping that it improves their performance. I believe that competition brings out the best in people, especially with regards to NFL quarterbacks. Why would you want someone in that job who can't handle the pressure of a job competition? Are fighter pilots just given their jobs with a large vat of piece of mind or are they evaluated and judged every time they go up in that plane? Bottom line, Fitz could have been a bit better had Chan and Buddy pushed him. AND If Fitz had lost a competition it would only mean that the Buffalo Bills would have a better starting quarterback (and a better backup too). How did you come to the conclusion that I am adverse to a qb competition? I have never made the argument that a starting qb shouldn't be challenged. My position on the qb position is the opposite. I have harshly criticized Nix for not having adequate backups and not having better prospects at that position who could come in to relieve the faltering starter.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 How did you come to the conclusion that I am adverse to a qb competition? I have never made the argument that a starting qb shouldn't be challenged. My position on the qb position is the opposite. I have harshly criticized Nix for not having adequate backups and not having better prospects at that position who could come in to relieve the faltering starter. I didn't make the conclusion that you are adverse to a qb competition. How did you come to the conclusion that I had?
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 How did you come to the conclusion that I am adverse to a qb competition? I have never made the argument that a starting qb shouldn't be challenged. My position on the qb position is the opposite. I have harshly criticized Nix for not having adequate backups and not having better prospects at that position who could come in to relieve the faltering starter. The irony is that Fitzpatrick was brought in after a poor season with the Bengals, a season in which he set a record for fewest yards per pass attempt, and it was widely accepted that it was because he would not seriously challenge a young, developing Trent Edwards.
JohnC Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I didn't make the conclusion that you are adverse to a qb competition. How did you come to the conclusion that I had? Read your bold type in respons to my post. Maybe I'm simply confusing myself?
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Read your bold type in respons to my post. Maybe I'm simply confusing myself? Yes you misread my intent. The bolded doesn't say "share your belief," it says "share the belief." I was using your point about Fitz (which I agreed with and admitted I was wrong about him as a starter) to springboard into what I thought was an irony about his tenure in Buffalo: that he could have been better had he been pushed which is the one thing that Chan and Buddy didn't do.
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 (Why are we still bemoaning the Levy/Jauron era????) Why not? Many of the Bills better players were acquired then.
JohnC Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 The irony is that Fitzpatrick was brought in after a poor season with the Bengals, a season in which he set a record for fewest yards per pass attempt, and it was widely accepted that it was because he would not seriously challenge a young, developing Trent Edwards. The whole Fitz issue drives me crazy. It doesn't matter whether it was CG or BN or the both of them who over-estimated his abilities. Anyone who went along with such a blatant misjudgment of talent should not only be fired but should be laughed out of the business. How does the Fitz saga last for three years without a desperate search for an option from him? Some player judgments are difficult to make. Sometimes there is an indication of latent talent that calls for patience. This certainly wasn't the case. You can make the case that Maybin had some talent and the trick was to find a way to fit it in. It didn't work out but at least there was something there to keep you working with the project. I have watched a lot of NFL games and witnessed capable qb play. There was never a point where I could say that Fitz was capable of making plays that the typical starting franchise qb should be able to make. You don't need to be a professional scout to come to that obvious conclusion. What was more stupid than the organization's player misjudgment was the "lazy" way that this country GM dealt with this travesty. If your house is on fire and the baby is in the house you don't meander around----you run your asssss off and rescure that child. Now Nix is talking about the urgency of finding a franchise qb in this draft. That is like saying Al Capone is a crook. You are stating the obvious and stating something that has been known for a long time by anyone who has a clue. Yes you misread my intent. The bolded doesn't say "share your belief," it says "share the belief." I was using your point about Fitz (which I agreed with and admitted I was wrong about him as a starter) to springboard into what I thought was an irony about his tenure in Buffalo: that he could have been better had he been pushed which is the one thing that Chan and Buddy didn't do. We are cool!
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