Buddy Nix and addressing the QB position

[San Jose Bills Fan]

As I've said before, we're watching "The Education of an NFL GM."

 

In true Buddy fashion, he's been pretty forthcoming about his mistakes. He's implicitly admitted to and reversed on numerous stances he's taken in the past.

 

You don't hear him talking about "sleeping" during free agency anymore, and in fact they made a huge splash last year.

 

You don't hear him taking a stance against trading in the draft anymore. And in fact they pulled off a draft day trade last year, albeit a bad one.

 

I doubt you'll see him rushing to the podium with the pick as he did with Spiller instead of allowing for the possibility of a trade offer too good to decline.

 

You finally see him acknowledging the premium placed on QB value which is the exact point he had been missing previously.

 

Buddy has been learning publicly that the difference between a scout and a GM is quite substantial. FWIW, he has tacitly admitted to his mistakes.

Edited January 26, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Sisyphean Bills]

The whole Fitz issue drives me crazy. It doesn't matter whether it was CG or BN or the both of them who over-estimated his abilities. Anyone who went along with such a blatant misjudgment of talent should not only be fired but should be laughed out of the business. How does the Fitz saga last for three years without a desperate search for an option from him? Some player judgments are difficult to make. Sometimes there is an indication of latent talent that calls for patience. This certainly wasn't the case. You can make the case that Maybin had some talent and the trick was to find a way to fit it in. It didn't work out but at least there was something there to keep you working with the project.

 

I have watched a lot of NFL games and witnessed capable qb play. There was never a point where I could say that Fitz was capable of making plays that the typical starting franchise qb should be able to make. You don't need to be a professional scout to come to that obvious conclusion. What was more stupid than the organization's player misjudgment was the "lazy" way that this country GM dealt with this travesty. If your house is on fire and the baby is in the house you don't meander around----you run your asssss off and rescure that child. Now Nix is talking about the urgency of finding a franchise qb in this draft. That is like saying Al Capone is a crook. You are stating the obvious and stating something that has been known for a long time by anyone who has a clue.

On a side note, Chan's approach to the QB position was clearly one of declaring somebody the uncontested QB and leader of the team. That's an example of in-the-box thinking and the team could have developed more quickly by having the willingness to make decisions and changes at that position.

 

The QB situation was bungled from the very beginning by the Budley pair. <sigh> It is concerning when your 4th year GM is making statements to the effect that it is a revelation to him that his team needs more talent at QB, that QB talent is at such a premium it comes off the draft board quickly, and that you need to find linebackers that can play the pass as well as defend the run. For a bottom-feeder, fans might like to have a sense that the leadership has a better sense of the pulse of the modern game.

 

On the bright side, what I've read about Marrone suggests that he actually is progressive in his approach.

[BillsVet]

As I've said before, we're watching "The Education of an NFL GM."

 

In true Buddy fashion, he's been pretty forthcoming about his mistakes. He's implicitly admitted to and reversed on numerous stances he's taken in the past.

 

You don't hear him talking about "sleeping" during free agency anymore, and in fact they made a huge splash last year.

 

You don't hear him taking a stance against trading in the draft anymore. And in fact they pulled off a draft day trade last year, albeit a bad one.

 

I doubt you'll see him rushing to the podium with the pick as he did with Spiller instead of allowing for the possibility of a trade offer too good to decline.

 

You finally see him acknowledging the premium placed on QB value which is the exact point he had been missing previously.

 

Buddy has been learning publicly that the difference between a scout and a GM is quite substantial. FWIW, he has tacitly admitted to his mistakes.

 

Buddy should know by now how to be a GM and should not have needed 2-3 years to realize his errors. At his introductory PC he talked about having served in all the roles under GM as preparing him for the GM of football position RW hired him to do.

 

The point is, while every GM makes mistakes, Buddy's blundering ways are inexcusable and make the job for the incoming GM, Whaley, and their new HC much more difficult. Acknowledging mistakes, either latently or overtly, does not excuse the bad decisions made.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Buddy should know by now how to be a GM and should not have needed 2-3 years to realize his errors. At his introductory PC he talked about having served in all the roles under GM as preparing him for the GM of football position RW hired him to do.

 

The point is, while every GM makes mistakes, Buddy's blundering ways are inexcusable and make the job for the incoming GM, Whaley, and their new HC much more difficult. Acknowledging mistakes, either latently or overtly, does not excuse the bad decisions made.

 

I agree.

 

I thought that while there was a good chance that he would get another poke at it, that he deserved to be fired.

 

I do believe however that his "power" within the organization has been compromised.

 

That's my hope anyways.

[JohnC]

On a side note, Chan's approach to the QB position was clearly one of declaring somebody the uncontested QB and leader of the team. That's an example of in-the-box thinking and the team could have developed more quickly by having the willingness to make decisions and changes at that position.

 

The QB situation was bungled from the very beginning by the Budley pair. <sigh> It is concerning when your 4th year GM is making statements to the effect that it is a revelation to him that his team needs more talent at QB, that QB talent is at such a premium it comes off the draft board quickly, and that you need to find linebackers that can play the pass as well as defend the run. For a bottom-feeder, fans might like to have a sense that the leadership has a better sense of the pulse of the modern game.

 

On the bright side, what I've read about Marrone suggests that he actually is progressive in his approach.

 

What is sad is that what has been normal for a long time for almost all franchises is "hopefully" now a reality for this long term backwater franchise. I'm hoping that the Brandon era is a real change from the sleepy Wilson era. The signs are positive. I like the way the HC search went. It was compact yet it was professionally and thoroughly done.

 

As I have often stated until there is a legitimate franchise qb on the roster this won't be an authentic competing franchise. Nix has been late to the party but even he seems to be all in on that issue. Is Whaley more actively involved in the football operation? I hope so. It seems to me that Nix based on his three year performance is simply overmatched for the GM job. However, I will judge his tenure in a more positive light if he comes out of this draft with a legitimate franchise qb prospect. There are still many other player issues that need to be addressed but until the qb issue is addressed this franchise will never be fully whole.

 

Let's put things in perspective. We haven't had a legitimate long term franchise qb since the Kelly era. That is nearly 20 yrs ago. That is unacceptable and absurd! The travesty is not that the organization has failed in it's attempt to find a qb but that it has not aggressively tried to do so. That is the real failure. If we come out of this draft with a "reasonable" prospect then I will be more than satisfied that things are moving in the right direction. At this point I am leaning toward Tyler Wilson as a good qb prospect. But I am very receptive to other options. The issue for me isn't about failing to get the right prospect, the issue is about trying to get the right prospect.

Edited January 26, 2013 by JohnC

[BillsVet]

I agree.

 

I thought that while there was a good chance that he would get another poke at it, that he deserved to be fired.

 

I do believe however that his "power" within the organization has been compromised.

 

That's my hope anyways.

 

Agreed. The team seems to have re-structured behind the scenes, placing Nix is a position of lesser input.

[NoSaint]

Bingo! No need for 6,000 word paragraphs to get the "real" truth across.

 

Read what you wrote? He has used a 7th round pick and other teams failures and cast offs to try to fix the QB situation here-that for all intents and purposes might as well be ignoring the position. Mentioning T-Jax in your statement, further highlights how bad Nix has been. Give up a draft pick for someone who was never even active on gameday? Really? Gailey/Nix/Fitz was a three head sh*t monster and so far we have only gotten rid of one third of that contagious disaster, and this team wont get better until all 3 thirds are history.

 

Right as opposed to carrol using a qb already on the roster, trading for whitehurst, signing Jackson, overpaying for Flynn, chasing kolb.... He got Wilson, who for a 3rd round rookie wildly exceeded his own expectations even. He also did not draft dalton, or kaepernick or mallett.... He hit on one. Lets not act like he's some guru and nix is lucky if he's not drooling on himself because of that.

 

 

 

[JohnC]

Right as opposed to carrol using a qb already on the roster, trading for whitehurst, signing Jackson, overpaying for Flynn, chasing kolb.... He got Wilson, who for a 3rd round rookie wildly exceeded his own expectations even. He also did not draft dalton, or kaepernick or mallett.... He hit on one. Lets not act like he's some guru and nix is lucky if he's not drooling on himself because of that.

 

How would you rate Nix's overall three year draft record?

 

Whatever you think of Carroll it is fair to say that his team is a legitimate SB contending team. That certainly is not the case for the Bills. Too much attention is give to the qb issue. A bigger issue is which organization over the past three years has done a better job in assembling a team?

[Dibs]

I would argue that if Buddy DID know QB talent, he wouldn't have passed on the 4 franchise QBs that he could have had. He wouldn't have given Fitz such a huge contract after 5 decent games. And he wouldn't have leaned on Gailey so much (about QBs). It's still Buddy bashing, but at least it's on point.

 

I agree that giving Fitz a huge contract was a huge mistake.....as was him not spending draft capital on QB potential. Huge mistakes.

 

The bolded above is a common misconception by fans. The misconception is that people can actually know how a player is going to pan out in the NFL. In regards to QBs, there has only been 2 in the past 20 years that have been close to a sure thing(Manning & Luck). All other QBs are a hit/miss proposition.

No team expected Kaepernick or Wilson to become franchise QBs (as there 4th & 3rd round selections show). The actual chance that one of them would become a star QB (from looking at previous drafting history) was miniscule. Tiny.

 

 

 

On a non QB note.....

I don't understand how people can difinitively rate how Nix has fared to this point. It usually takes several years to see how draft picks will pan out. Mario achieved 10+ sacks with injury this year....and only 13 TEs had more yards and 6 TEs more TDs than Chandler.

 

The QB situation aside, there is a decent chance that he may well have drafted well above the curve.

He might end up with 3 out of 3 1st rounders becoming stars.....Spiller is already one, DTs often break through in their 3rd year....and Gilmore has had one season.

2nd round Glenn could become a probowler.

4th round rookie Bradham improved as the year went on and could become solid.

Carrington could become a probowler in our new D.

 

If all of those things happen then he will have done an amazing job(apart from the QB situation). Even if only two thirds of those things happen it will still be well above the curve.

 

 

I am not saying that he has done a good job.....I am saying it is way too early to be saying that he hasn't.....yet.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Dibs

[Ramius]

How would you rate Nix's overall three year draft record?

 

Whatever you think of Carroll it is fair to say that his team is a legitimate SB contending team. That certainly is not the case for the Bills. Too much attention is give to the qb issue. A bigger issue is which organization over the past three years has done a better job in assembling a team?

 

It IS all about the QB. Carroll's seahawks had back-to-back 7-9 seasons prior to lucking into Russell Wilson. So he didn't exactly build this great team. Without Wilson, i doubt they're significantly better than 7-9, and most likely would have missed the playoffs again (given how crowded the NFC was for those final few spots.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Quite honestly I think the numerous paragraphs on this subject are superfluous. We can talk about drafts and marquee free agents and street free agents. We can talk about roster turnover, who was already here and who wasn't.

 

The math is easy, IMO.

 

It's fair to rate Buddy's job performance seeing as he's been in his job for 3 years.

 

He's done some good things and he's made some mistakes.

 

I'd say he done an average job except for the fact that he hired the wrong coach and that both of them hitched their wagon to the wrong quarterback.

 

Really, isn't it that easy?

 

edit: And the scoreboard reads 16-32.

[The Senator]

I would argue that if Buddy DID know QB talent, he wouldn't have passed on the 4 franchise QBs that he could have had. He wouldn't have given Fitz such a huge contract after 5 decent games. And he wouldn't have leaned on Gailey so much (about QBs). It's still Buddy bashing, but at least it's on point.

.

Just wondering - which four franchise QBs that we had the opportunity to draft did Buddy pass up??? (Keeping in mind that one good year does NOT define a "franchise" QB, and one above-average year CERTAINLY does not.)

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

[Dibs]

It's fair to rate Buddy's job performance seeing as he's been in his job for 3 years.

 

He's done some good things and he's made some mistakes.

 

How can you rate two of his biggest decisions in Darius & Gilmore....let alone the entire 3 years of draft picks he has orchestrated?

 

In a few years he may look like a genius....or a complete ass. Any attempt to rate him at this point is relatively futile.

[NoSaint]

 

 

How would you rate Nix's overall three year draft record?

 

Whatever you think of Carroll it is fair to say that his team is a legitimate SB contending team. That certainly is not the case for the Bills. Too much attention is give to the qb issue. A bigger issue is which organization over the past three years has done a better job in assembling a team?

 

I don't think this team is near as far away as you do. Unfortunately a qb still leaves them miles away. Honestly, if we hadn't had to reload the defense two and now possibly three times, we'd be even closer. The perpetual scheme swapping I think is a much bigger offense than anything on draft day.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

How can you rate two of his biggest decisions in Darius & Gilmore....let alone the entire 3 years of draft picks he has orchestrated?

 

In a few years he may look like a genius....or a complete ass. Any attempt to rate him at this point is relatively futile.

 

I understand your point but I think 3 years is certainly enough to make a to-date evaluation.

 

He can be given completed grades for some of his actions and incompletes for others.

 

I disagree with you if you're saying that Nix can't be graded at all.

[Dibs]

I understand your point but I think 3 years is certainly enough to make a to-date evaluation.

 

He can be given completed grades for some of his actions and incompletes for others.

 

I disagree with you if you're saying that Nix can't be graded at all.

 

I guess I'm saying that for the actions he can be graded on....he can be graded(lol).....but for the "incompletes" and the overall he can't be graded....or he can, but those grades are useless.

Many in this thread have been grading him on an "incomplete" area....his drafts.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I guess I'm saying that for the actions he can be graded on....he can be graded(lol).....but for the "incompletes" and the overall he can't be graded....or he can, but those grades are useless.

Many in this thread have been grading him on an "incomplete" area....his drafts.

 

Understood.

 

For instance, Buddy's first draft isn't looking real great but if Carrington continues on the path of occasional dominance that he flashed last year and if Troup somehow miraculously became a player in this defense, the draft could suddenly look much better than it does now.

 

The hiring of Gailey was a failure. He gets a failing grade on that complete action.

 

And so on and so forth.

[Sisyphean Bills]

How would you rate Nix's overall three year draft record?

 

Whatever you think of Carroll it is fair to say that his team is a legitimate SB contending team. That certainly is not the case for the Bills. Too much attention is give to the qb issue. A bigger issue is which organization over the past three years has done a better job in assembling a team?

It really cannot be debated. Seattle has made more roster moves than the Bills by far.

 

I wouldn't say that the Bills haven't tried at all at the QB position. Nix, while he has been guilty of waiting for the perfect QB, has brought in some QBs. The approach may have been a little odd -- the waving shotgun approach rather than finding guys that had similar skill sets and could run the offense. To some degree, maybe there was overconfidence in Chan's megamind ability to polish turds at the position.

 

I guess I'm saying that for the actions he can be graded on....he can be graded(lol).....but for the "incompletes" and the overall he can't be graded....or he can, but those grades are useless.

Many in this thread have been grading him on an "incomplete" area....his drafts.

On the other hand, the era when a franchise can go 10 or 15 years of trending down and flatlining before making a move are gone like the dinosaurs.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Understood.

 

For instance, Buddy's first draft isn't looking real great but if Carrington continues on the path of occasional dominance that he flashed last year and if Troup somehow miraculously became a player in this defense, the draft could suddenly look much better than it does now.

 

The hiring of Gailey was a failure. He gets a failing grade on that complete action.

 

And so on and so forth.

 

But how do we even judge that draft.... The defensive players were drafted for a 34 and dropped in a 43 before they were even really expected to make a real contribution. Now they are going into get another coaching stuff that has no ties to them. It would be noteworthy to pull any real contributors on defense in that draft even if there were some good picks. There's also the obvious questions of what to make of the front office going into that as it stands out as different than the ones since.

 

Not trying to absolve him, but note how little we k ow based on it.

[CardinalScotts]

Washington didn't have a chance to get rg3 either.....until they did. He could've been had. At the expense of some good young players, but I'd take him over Gilmore, Glenn and a few other guys everyday all day. He's a stud. His Injuries are definitely scary, but you see how a great QB can turn a team around. Take him off that team and they win 3-5 games IMO. But they made the playoffs with him. Beating some talented teams along the way

 

And what does Washington have ? An injury prone running quarterback who will never play a 16 games season and that's at 22 what happens at 25-26 and later when the legs leave him. Going into next season do you think Shanahan is thinking we got the franchise QB in place coming off ACL surgery. He is fun to watch and he did make a huge difference - nice year now what? (hit reset). Defensively they also had a descent team but 6 starters will be 30 or over next year including the entire secondary