Best Player Available Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 You know who else is just as good as Fitz? Jim Kelly. Fitz (as the primary starter): 2010: 13 games, 57.8%, 3000yds, 23td, 15int, 81.8 rating 2011: 16 games, 62.0%, 3,832yds, 24td, 23int, 79.1 rating 2012: 16 games, 60.6%, 3,400yds, 24td, 16int, 83.3 rating Kelly: 1990: 14 games, 63.3%, 2829yds, 24tds, 9int 1991: 15 games, 64.1%, 3844yds, 33td, 17int 1992: 16 games, 58.2%, 3457yds, 23td, 19 int So you can see, Fitz only threw 9 more picks, but threw for more yards! Plus, Kelly's interception total is artificially low because of the one great season in 1990. Therefore Fitz probably would've won the Superbowl had he been playing back in the day. Man, you're right Kelly sucked!
Dorkington Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 We haven't had a good QB since Flutie. And that's being generous in calling Flutie good.
prissythecat Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) The stats that matter the most are w-l and neither did well in Buffalo. The league also continues to evolve to more of a pass happy one. Running games are almost an afterthought. I love how a lot of people on this board cite win - loss as the only stat that matters. But on a football team, you have 21 other players on offense and defense . The performance of those other players greatly affects the final results of the game . You can be the most skilled qb , yet if the team around you is bad , you are not going to win . There is a hall of fame qb who started out on a very sorry team. During his first 2 seasons , he was 3-16 as a starter with 11 tds , 21 interceptions , and a 55 % completion rate. That's horrible . Yet after San Fran traded for him and eventually started him , he went on to have a hall of fame career . Steve Young's final numbers with San Fran are 221 tds , 86 ints, and a 101 rating . Big difference when you play on a great team . Now in no way am I saying that Fitz is the next Young . But blaming the terrible Bills record on entirerly on Fitz is just plain dumb. Edited January 22, 2013 by prissythecat
VABills Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Bledsoe: 2002: 16 games, 61.5%, 4,359yds, 24td, 15int, 86.0 rating 2003: 16 games, 58.2%, 2,860yds, 11td, 12int, 73.0 rating 2004: 16 games, 56.9%, 2,932yds, 20td, 16int, 76.6 rating Fitz (as the primary starter): 2010: 13 games, 57.8%, 3000yds, 23td, 15int, 81.8 rating 2011: 16 games, 62.0%, 3,832yds, 24td, 23int, 79.1 rating 2012: 16 games, 60.6%, 3,400yds, 24td, 16int, 83.3 rating Overall, Fitz has a higher Completion %, 16 more TD's, and a higher QB rating (i couldn't find QBR for bledsoe as I don't think they had that stat back then) in fewer games. Fitz does have 11 more INT's in 3 fewer games. I know time distorts things, but has Fitz been a better QB for us than Bledsoe was? Discuss... 11 more INT's is a huge difference. The fact is Fitz is turning the ball over during this time frame at a rate of 1.5 times per game by himself. That gives the other team 1.5 more drives against our defense. The defense looks bad because well they maybe but this turnover machine doesn't help. Bledsoe except his first half year was a pretty poor qb here. Fitz playing at that poor level if it gives you comfort, so be it. Needless to say both were bad. This is just followed up by the fact that they took the ball out of Bledsoes hands and gave it to Losman who was horrible in his own right.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 lol, man come on. Ya I like Fitz, but I do realize we need to draft a QB and we could use an upgrade. However, if you look at the stats between Bledsoe and Fitz, you can have an argument that statistically speaking, Fitz has been a BETTER QB. All the stats get thrown out the window, Fitz has thrown 11 more picks... That makes him a worse QB. Picks are game killers... And the name of the game is to not kill the game.
Shoutbox Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Who is the only Buffalo Bills QB to pass for 4000 yards in a season? Drew Bledsoe in 2002. And in 2011, Fitz was 13 passing yards short of having the 2nd best season passing yardage performance in franchise history. Just another reason why stats rarely tell the whole story. Sad to say, but the best post-Kelly QB the Bills have had was Doug Flutie. He had the mobility that Drew didn't to work behind an atrocious OL, and he wasn't nearly as prone as Fitz was in throwing game-changing interceptions.
bobobonators Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 11 more INT's is a huge difference. The fact is Fitz is turning the ball over during this time frame at a rate of 1.5 times per game by himself. That gives the other team 1.5 more drives against our defense. The defense looks bad because well they maybe but this turnover machine doesn't help. Bledsoe except his first half year was a pretty poor qb here. Fitz playing at that poor level if it gives you comfort, so be it. Needless to say both were bad. This is just followed up by the fact that they took the ball out of Bledsoes hands and gave it to Losman who was horrible in his own right. ya, i definitely hear you about the turnovers. i'm not looking for comfort of any kind, btw. just laying out their stats is all.
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Too funny. Maybe you should add Fitz as a Facebook friend. OK, that made me lol!!!
Bill from NYC Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) 11 more INT's is a huge difference. The fact is Fitz is turning the ball over during this time frame at a rate of 1.5 times per game by himself. That gives the other team 1.5 more drives against our defense. The defense looks bad because well they maybe but this turnover machine doesn't help. Bledsoe except his first half year was a pretty poor qb here. Fitz playing at that poor level if it gives you comfort, so be it. Needless to say both were bad. This is just followed up by the fact that they took the ball out of Bledsoes hands and gave it to Losman who was horrible in his own right. VAB, it is good to see you posting again. When we got Drew he was past his prime, and not mobile enough, even in those days. But he also played behind one of the worst offensive lines in the history of football. The Bills had this, poor coaching, and Travis Henry coughing up the football. But Bledsoe had a top 10 arm of all time. He needed a lot more help, but he could still play. And, it's quite coincidental that you mentioned Losman. I heard Ross Tucker on Sirius this morning say how upset he when the Bills replaced Bledsoe with Losman. Back in the day, you and I knew what a stupid move this was. In any event, so did Ross Tucker. Edited January 23, 2013 by Bill from NYC
BrooklynBills Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 The 2002 Bills was the best offense we have had since the Kelly years. Then, in 2003, instead of bolstering the OL and bringing in more offensive options, Tom Donahoe got rid of Peerless Price, Larry Centers, and Jay Reimersma and replaced them with Josh Reed, Bobby Shaw, Dave Moore, and Sam Gash. Those 3 were huge parts of the 2002 offense and their replacements were simply not very good. The Bills tried to become a more ball-control team which failed because the offensive line was not good enough and they expected Jim McNally to coach up a bunch of scrubs and failed draft picks.
NewEra Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Why did this thread die? Fritz vs Bledsoe is a great debate IMO!!
RealityCheck Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 They both stink. Which stinks worse? I can't wait to find out.
Greybeard Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Also, Bledsoe never had as good/consistent OL that the Bills have had the past three seasons with Levitre and Wood anchoring the middle. This is very true for all the QB's in that time period. Maybe one of them would have worked out if they had a little time to pass. Once it was determined that Bledsoe could be beat by blitzing and/or a great pass rush, he was done. If we had any kind of line he could have probably had a more successful run. In my opinion, we may have given up on a couple of QB's that could have succeeded with a little blocking up front.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) Bledsoe: 2002: 16 games, 61.5%, 4,359yds, 24td, 15int, 86.0 rating 2003: 16 games, 58.2%, 2,860yds, 11td, 12int, 73.0 rating 2004: 16 games, 56.9%, 2,932yds, 20td, 16int, 76.6 rating Fitz (as the primary starter): 2010: 13 games, 57.8%, 3000yds, 23td, 15int, 81.8 rating 2011: 16 games, 62.0%, 3,832yds, 24td, 23int, 79.1 rating 2012: 16 games, 60.6%, 3,400yds, 24td, 16int, 83.3 rating Overall, Fitz has a higher Completion %, 16 more TD's, and a higher QB rating (i couldn't find QBR for bledsoe as I don't think they had that stat back then) in fewer games. Fitz does have 11 more INT's in 3 fewer games. I know time distorts things, but has Fitz been a better QB for us than Bledsoe was? Discuss... No offense, but who cares? Who cares if he was as good, better, or worse than another QB who didn't do much for us or get us to the playoffs? You can compare Fitz to whoever you want but it does not change that he leads the NFL in turnovers as a 3 year starter which is the worst stat your QB can have of any stat. It doesn't change how bad he is when the game matters. Doesn't change the facts of how padded his stats are in garbage time or in one or two good games while his stats are terrible in meaningful parts of games and most of the year. Doesn't change the fact that he is woefully inconsistent and inaccurate. Doesn't change how bad his record is. More importantly it doesn't change his weak arm and bad mechanics. Fitz is not an NFL starter, at least not a quality one, and Fitz proved that week in and week out on the field. Edited January 27, 2013 by Alphadawg7
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 All the stats get thrown out the window, Fitz has thrown 11 more picks... That makes him a worse QB. Picks are game killers... And the name of the game is to not kill the game. Just to keep the pot stirring... how would those turnover numbers look if we included Bledsoe's sacks and fumbles?
hondo in seattle Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 This is a ridiculous thread. You're comparing Bills current starter to a player who was clearly in decline and who couldn't recreate his decent 1st half of the 2002 season, and you use that as a defense of Fitzpatrick? Really? I think the parallels are very apt. It was obvious that Bledsoe hit a wall and a change was needed. The big mistake was pushing up a kid who wasn't ready for the job. The same story holds now. Fitz hit a wall (actually he was never at Bledsoe's full speed) and a change is needed. But people shouldn't delude themselves that 2013 QB play will be better than Fitz. +1 We're comparing a QB we ultimately didn't want to another QB we ultimately didn't want. What's the point? In both cases, we needed better. Let's hope this time we actually find better.
Alphadawg7 Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Just to keep the pot stirring... how would those turnover numbers look if we included Bledsoe's sacks and fumbles? Well then you would do the same for Fitz who has a lot of fumbles himself and would change very little.
Big Gun Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Well then you would do the same for Fitz who has a lot of fumbles himself and would change very little. FWIW, 3 years in Buffalo for Bledsoe, 140 sacks and 35 fumbles 4 years in Buffalo for Fitz, 97 sacks and 26 fumbles Those #'s are way in favor of Fitz. Not that it matters much.
bobobonators Posted January 27, 2013 Author Posted January 27, 2013 GG: This is a ridiculous thread? Comparing the careers of 2 QBs during their time in Buffalo is ridiculous? Blasphemy! Lets go post 1,250 pages about Te'o instead. I never once said that Bledsoe was a HOF QB for us, and I never once said that Fitz is a great NFL QB. The premise was simple (at least for me): I always regarded Bledsoe to be the last legit QB we've had, and I was surprised to find taht Fitz's numbers compared to or were even better than Bledsoe's in certain respects. All the other nonsense that developed in this thread is a result of people having the mentality of a 10yr old. If you think that talking about Bills players on a Bills forum is so ridiculous, go back to posting about Teo's imaginary G/F or Revis being traded. I don't judge.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 ya, i definitely hear you about the turnovers. i'm not looking for comfort of any kind, btw. just laying out their stats is all. And that's the problem with your thread OP. You begin by throwing out their respective numbers in buffalo (2 guys that played almost 10 years apart here btw) and just sit back and say let's discuss. Well, people have been discussing. Repliers to this thread have asked you several follow up questions to these raw numbers you posted and you have yet to answer any of them. You started this to bait people. Because you are still a fan of this complete failure of a starting quarterback. And no, not everyone thought Bledsoe was the team's most recent good QB. He had one good year statistically with Moulds and Price. The rest of his time here was as embarassing as the last 3 have been.
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