Tim Brown is Losing His Mind

[truth on hold]

@NS That's what I originally thought, hence the threads title. Winning a SB would mean so much to a coach financially there's no way he'd throw it. But rice siding with brown does cast some doubt on it. Never know, people harm themselvesout of spite for others. Although I'm still not buying it just less certain

Edited January 22, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Meathead]

is this 'craziest nfl stories ever' week?!?

 

big college heros soulmate dies but never existed

 

nfl head coach throws superbowl

 

holy crapoli

[Best Player Available]

Jerry Rice wasn't a role player on that team, in fact he was the leading receiver. 2002 was his 2nd season in Oakland. His stats those first 2 years were:

 

2001 - 83 rec, 1139 yds, 9 TDs

2002 - 92 rec, 1211 yds, 7 TDs

 

I'm not saying I'm buying it ( I don't), but I have no idea how you can view Rice's comments as anything but corroboration of Brown's allegation.

I view Rice's comments as backing Browns, let's say theory. Again why wait 10 years and 2 weeks before a super bowl, and oh HOF voting to bring it up. Sounds like T. Brown has something up his butt and this accusation has the potential to make him look like a fool. Rice to my knowledge does not embellish nor add any actual fact. He's simply backing his friend, and maybe not for the right reason. I'd love to know why Gannon has never spoke of this? Being the QB and all.

Also, Chucky has been on record noticing that the Raiders were still using his offensive playbook during the game. IMO it's the big reason he won. Does that constitute throwing a game that most head coaches never make it too? Plus good ole Al Davis had plenty to say back in those days.

Brown should shut his piehole, because in the end he's going to look like a tool. Rice has his legacy in place before he ever signed with the Raiders.

 

But if for some reason it's true. Well the NFL is over. Vegas doesn't like that sort of thing. A coverup of biblical proportions would have had to take place at the league offices. Making spygate look like a walk in the park.

[NoSaint]

@NS That's what I originally thought, hence the threads title. Winning a SB would mean so much to a coach financially there's no way he'd throw it. But rice siding with brown does cast some doubt on it. Never know, people harm themselvesout of spite for others. Although I'm still not buying it just less certain

 

im just picturing a bunch of guys sitting around with some beers and as the night progresses they talk them into the classic "we were so good but someone else was out to sabotage us, otherwise everything wouldve gone our way"

 

im sure weve all been in that boat where the group talks itself into something absurd, but were lucky enough to not be famous and have microphones in front of us to reveal our kooky theories that we talked ourselves into. the psychology of callahan reaching the peak of his profession and then intentionally throwing it all away just to spite the owner (which losing a super bowl doesnt really do much to accomplish) would be fascinating in a psych exam. the self destructive nature of it is 100 times worse than the damage that would be caused to his target. as indicated by my participation in the manti thread, i enjoy the abnormal, just weird psych stories and the callahan angle would certainly be that. i just think its the more common group think that you get between guys that went to battle together.

Edited January 22, 2013 by NoSaint

[Kelly the Dog]

Stranger things have happened. But none of us could think of one.

 

I think they're probably crazy, and just remembering it a little differently all these years later.

 

It's especially odd, if not insane, for arguably the greatest WR ever, and arguably another HOF WR, to decide that THROWING PASSES TO THEM was someone "sabotaging" the Super Bowl.

[NoSaint]

It's especially odd, if not insane, for arguably the greatest WR ever, and arguably another HOF WR, to decide that THROWING PASSES TO THEM was someone "sabotaging" the Super Bowl.

 

i know, right? that was the first thing that hit me when brown started in on this, before i even thought about rice being on that squad.

[Wagon Circler]

I also believe that was Bill Callahan on the grassy knoll...

And he was holding John Wilkes Booth's horse outside the theater.

[Lurker]

Jerry Rice wasn't a role player on that team, in fact he was the leading receiver. 2002 was his 2nd season in Oakland. His stats those first 2 years were:

 

2001 - 83 rec, 1139 yds, 9 TDs

2002 - 92 rec, 1211 yds, 7 TDs

 

 

 

Brown had something to say on THAT as well:

 

http://profootballta...head-coach-job/

 

"Brown was the lead dog in Oakland, with nine straight 1,000-yard seasons. But Trestman took over and some guy named Jerry Rice (who was familiar with Trestman’s West Coast principles) became a more prominent part of the game plan.

 

“The year he took over as offensive coordinator is also the year my reign with the Raiders ended because he made Jerry the No. 1 receiver instead of myself,” Brown said. “The year before I made the Pro Bowl and caught [91 passes for 1,165 yards] … and the year afterwards, the year he takes over I think I came like 50 yards from catching 1,000 yards in 10 or 11 straight seasons.

 

“Hey, look, I’m not a selfish player, but come on, if I put the work in, make this happen for me. We had some interesting words about that part of it.”

Edited January 23, 2013 by Lurker

[Punch]

[/size]

 

 

Brown had something to say on THAT as well:

 

http://profootballta...head-coach-job/

 

 

"Brown was the lead dog in Oakland, with nine straight 1,000-yard seasons. But Trestman took over and some guy named Jerry Rice (who was familiar with Trestman’s West Coast principles) became a more prominent part of the game plan.

“The year he took over as offensive coordinator is also the year my reign with the Raiders ended because he made Jerry the No. 1 receiver instead of myself,” Brown said. “The year before I made the Pro Bowl and caught [91 passes for 1,165 yards] … and the year afterwards, the year he takes over I think I came like 50 yards from catching 1,000 yards in 10 or 11 straight seasons.

“Hey, look, I’m not a selfish player, but come on, if I put the work in, make this happen for me. We had some interesting words about that part of it.”

 

It does sort of sound like Brown is just sounding off on things that piss him off.

 

You know who else was on the roster of the 2002-03 Raiders? That's right, Renaiah's cousin: Marques Tuiasosopo

 

Apparently, when the Raiders got off to a 2-5 start the following season, Charles Woodson publicly accused Callahan of sabotaging the season, and Tim Brown agreed with the sentiment. I can't understand why an NFL Head Coach would possibly throw a Super Bowl or a season.

 

This ESPN article from 2003 derails the infighting from that season, where Woodson, Charlie Garner and Tim Brown publicly griped about Callahan:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1695742

 

Charlie Garner sort of defends Brown:

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/22/charlie-garner-agrees-with-tim-brown-sort-of/

 

While three teammates who have spoken out so far disagree with Brown (Rich Gannon, Bill Romanowski,

Lincoln Kennedy), former Raiders running back Charlie Garner sees a little merit in Brown’s contention.

 

“There may be something to what Mr. Brown has been saying,” told 97.5 The Fanatic in Philly. “I really

don’t know the validity of which he despised the Raiders but I also know that he didn’t want to be there, too.”

 

Regardless of the reason, Garner agreed that something happened. “We came out with another game

plan and it just was not what we practiced. . . . We as an organization and as a team had been through

a lot of adversity so we were accustomed to it. Had we just stuck to the original game plan, I believe that

we would have been successful.”

[BuffOrange]

I just listened to both the Brown & Rice interviews. There are definitely some quotes you can cut&paste that sound like serious allegations. But both of them stopped short of saying the game was thrown when they were asked point blank by the interviewer. It was more "that's sorta what it looked like given his history with the Raiders" (whatever that means, Brown would not elaborate). So meh, I dunno. Why did he tank on the biggest stage when the whole world is watching instead of the playoff game against the Jets or Titans? Brown is a lot better spoken than your typical nitwit diva WR but that doesn't mean he's not just a guy who really hated his coach and was buddies with Rice.

[Mr. WEO]

Jerry Rice wasn't a role player on that team, in fact he was the leading receiver. 2002 was his 2nd season in Oakland. His stats those first 2 years were:

 

2001 - 83 rec, 1139 yds, 9 TDs

2002 - 92 rec, 1211 yds, 7 TDs

 

I'm not saying I'm buying it ( I don't), but I have no idea how you can view Rice's comments as anything but corroboration of Brown's allegation.

 

Corroboration of wild speculation? And the "new offensive plan" made it impossible for them to win??

 

Both of these guys soil their reputations with this stuff. Is this "recovered memory"?

[Tcali]

 

 

Jerry Rice wasn't a role player on that team, in fact he was the leading receiver. 2002 was his 2nd season in Oakland. His stats those first 2 years were:

 

2001 - 83 rec, 1139 yds, 9 TDs

2002 - 92 rec, 1211 yds, 7 TDs

 

I'm not saying I'm buying it ( I don't), but I have no idea how you can view Rice's comments as anything but corroboration of Brown's allegation.

 

cripe those #s are sick he was nearly 40.

[Hater]

Bill Callahan hasn't denied it or has he

[truth on hold]

Bill Callahan hasn't denied it or has he

You'd expect him to admit it? He'd never work again. Go down in infamy with the likes of Chicago black socks. When put into that context one realizes the severity of what brown and rice are implying.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[Tcali]

I think the implication is beyond absurd. there would have to be some weird murderous hatred for a head coach to give up the chance of being a SB winner . ridiculous.

 

ps --loved garner as a RB...and liked that raider team.

[Rob's House]

It's funny seeing how desperately some people need for this story to be false, as though it would somehow turn their world upside down if this coach threw the SB.

 

For the record, I don't know if he did or didn't. I'm just amused by stooges who speak in impassioned absolutes about things they couldn't possibly know (like all the people who somehow know for a fact that Ray Lewis didn't kill anyone).

[Buftex]

It's funny seeing how desperately some people need for this story to be false, as though it would somehow turn their world upside down if this coach threw the SB.

 

For the record, I don't know if he did or didn't. I'm just amused by stooges who speak in impassioned absolutes about things they couldn't possibly know (like all the people who somehow know for a fact that Ray Lewis didn't kill anyone).

 

Nothing desperate about it, you just have to side with logic sometimes. According to NFL Network, and other sources, numerous players on that Raiders team are refuting Browns allegations. Rich Gannon, Lincoln Kennedy, Zack Crockett, Bill Romanowski..etc etc Does their word mean less? Well, maybe Romo...

 

http://www.mercuryne...not-embraced-by

 

If Callahan hated the Raiders so much, or loved John Gruden so much, wtf would he take the Raiders head coaching job? To get them to a Super Bowl and then tank the game...it is just preposterous. Browns allegations about Callahans' offensive changes causing Barrett Robbins breakdown are equally idiotic. To me, this just sounds like bad blood between some players and their former coach. By your logic (believing things we couldn't possibly know makes us stooges) Brown is a stooge, unless he wants to come to the table and say that Bill Callahan told him (or somebody on the team, for that matter) that he intended to throw the game, because he hated Al Davis so much, and wanted Grudin to win, to stick it to him...but Brown can't say that, and he won't...cuz he is just speculating.

 

FWIW: it must be Bill Callahan day...he is set to be named the new Dallas Cowboys offensive coordinator.

 

ps- if you are amused by "stooges" who speak so impassioned absolutes about things they couldn't possibly know, you would get a kick out of the PPP board...oh wait!

Edited January 23, 2013 by Buftex

[TakeYouToTasker]

He sounded pretty lucid to me. You can argue about his conclusion, but Jon Ritchie backs his story & the unnamed source contradicting him admits he doesn't know much, so why are you guys so sure he's mentally deficient? Is it because in the extremely limited knowledge & imagination of all of you, that you can't quickly conceive of a scenario where you would do that? Is that really it or is there more, because I must have missed the more.

They want to believe, Rob. They want to believe.

[Mike In Illinois]

I don't buy that Callahan sabotaged the game for the Raiders. He'd never work in the NFL again, let alone football, if he pulled that kind of stunt and so many people knew about it. There's too much to gain from winning a Super Bowl. No way Callahan throws that away intentionally. Maybe Timmy was mad he only had a single catch in the game for 9 yards? A Super Bowl he'd worked his whole career to reach, only to be shut down and embarrassed after such a strong regular season?

 

If the issue is the offensive play-calling, can't the quarterback audible out of the plays to some degree (depending on on-field personnel)? Oakland was playing one of the best defenses in the League and against a coach who knew their tendacies. Also, the Raider defense did give 27 points on their own (three touchdown drives and two drives that led to field goals; excluding the THREE pick-sixes in the second half).

 

I do buy into the hope that Brown's accusations turn some Hall of Fame voters off to him and maybe re-consider Andre Reed's legitimacy as a Hall of Famer.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Mike In Illinois

[bbb]

This is insane and I hope it puts Andre in the HOF by getting Brown's votes.