uncle flap Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Aha, so you would rather have a pass rushing linebacker! All kidding aside, a good litmus test for those who simply say "I want the Bills to draft a linebacker" would be to ask them: "Would you rather have Jarvis Jones or Alec Ogletree?" Even if they were both outstanding in their core competencies, to me it would be like asking would you rather have Von Miller or Luke Keuchly? Pass rusher every time for me. But you have people who feel differently. Well, after hearing some of the players and coaches describing the D - especially Mario saying that he'll be more than happy playing anywhere (either side/ hand in dirt or standing), I'm starting to warm up to the idea of targeting Ogletree. Although, hopefully not at #8 because I think he can be had later and if they can't trade back then there will likely be a better prospect available that would be just as useful. Now I agree that if all things were equal I'll take the pass rusher, but I'm not sure how "equal" things are in the following front 7: dareus-branch-k williams, mario-bradham-sheppard-lawson/anderson Would you rather replace an ILB with Ogletree? Or an OLB with Jones? And then consider sub packages where at least one of those LBs is coming off the field... I guess I'd still take Jones over Ogletree if it had to be one or the other at #8, but I'm not as high on Jones as I am Dion Jordan who I will still hold out hope for until his name is called by another team. Ogletree might be / probably is more of an improvement over the ILBs than Jones is on the outside, but I'm still willing to give pretty much everyone a pass so far because of the crap coaching and scheming we've seen the past few seasons here. I don't think it's crazy to think Pettine just might be able to get a little bit more out of players, and also make guys look better than they are by putting them in better positions to make plays and help each other.
808 Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Be suspicious that he was really hurt. Perhaps he didn't run at the combine because he knew he wasn't fast. He HAD to run sometime, so he did at his pro day. He may have thought that his best chance was to feign injury while doing his run. To be clear, I do think that his productivity in the SEC speaks loudly, but not doubt the lack of speed shown has to be considered to some degree. I suspect he really is that "slow", so (to me) it seems that you better be able to tell from his game tape just how he was able to be as productive as he was in the SEC without having superior speed. Then it would be important to figure out how that will project to the NFL. We are really talking about more than hundreths of a second - actually an order of magnitude more. Von Miller was very productive in college and relied on his speed - but he ran something like a 4.4 at around 230 lbs. He is only about 10 lbs smaller than Jarvis Jones and ran nearly a half a second faster. That is the difference between some WRs and some OL. Again, does that automatically mean that Jarvis Jones won't be productive in the NFL? No, but it is something that a team needs to consider and understand. It does add risk in projecting Jones to the NFL. whats makes you suspect he is that slow? his game tape says hes plenty fast enough. and you think he faked his injury? what would make you think this? Yes, teams need to consider and understand he ran a 4.9 and isn't very fast. He's fast enough to dominate the line of scrimmage IMO. The real worry regarding jones is his medical condition. Worth the risk at 8 considering our lack of Lbs and defensive attitude the last 10 years. The guy is a football player. If we played a strict 4-3 defense, I wouldn't want him. Considering our new DC, there's no one I want more (other than a great QB). we are on the same page about JJ.
3rdand12 Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 The situation with us and Jones has changed i think since we picked up Lawson. Now i feel the need for the ILB position to be upgraded. I like Minter i like Ogletree. If Jones is there at 8 we answer the phone. drop down and get QB plus ILB. I really want to trade and add picks I hope i hope i hope
OldTimer1960 Posted April 7, 2013 Posted April 7, 2013 whats makes you suspect he is that slow? his game tape says hes plenty fast enough. and you think he faked his injury? what would make you think this? we are on the same page about JJ. I agree that his college production suggests that he is "fast enough". I don't know that he faked an injury, but it is suspicious that he didn't run at the combine, pulled up lame when realizing he was running really slowly. The biggest red flag for me will be if he doesn't run again before the draft. If he can run faster - significantly faster, then he should be chomping at the bit to do so and prove that there is no athletic reason not to believe that he can carry his college production to the NFL. As it stands now, I'd be very concerned drafting him in round 1. His 40 time was nearly a full 0.2 seconds slower than 300lb OT Lane Johnson. While I agree that pass rushing isn't necessarily about running 40 yard dashes, it is concerning that he might not have speed on his side when going against a blocker who out-weighs him by 60 lbs.
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