boyst Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) I know people worry about the timed 40 but anyone else agree with me when I say there is a difference between timed speed and game speed? CBF I dont think anyone ever called Miller a tweener. CBF Who are you saying is being called a tweener? I have heard it about Jordan and Jones...of course, you can read anything anywhere... but I just take most of the bad and most of the good and throw it out about good players. As OLB's, I want to know about their ability to move latterly, get to the ball, and if they can take a licking in stopping the run. Oh, and yes. Football speed is way different then timed speed. If you have the right tools you can make up for a lack of speed. Byrd is not fast but he makes plays being where he needs to be, therefore, he realizes this faster then most defenders and can cut the play off. He is a prime example of football speed. Edited March 22, 2013 by jboyst62
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 I know people worry about the timed 40 but anyone else agree with me when I say there is a difference between timed speed and game speed? CBF I dont think anyone ever called Miller a tweener. CBF People on our board often talk about the difference between football speed and timed/track speed. No one called Von Miller a tweener. What they were saying was that he was a Maybin clone, all speed and nothing else.
cosmo Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/05/jarvis-jones-to-visit-buffalo/ Visiting the Bills today per PFT.
K D Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Jordan or Jones. I'd be happy with either at 8. I think Jordan has more potential but Jones is more proven
White Linen Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 "But the Bills need to be ready at No. 8, in the event someone else takes quarterback Geno Smith before Buffalo is on the clock. The options at that point will include: (1) taking a different quarterback; (2) trading down for a different quarterback; (3) using the pick on someone else." "That someone else could be Jones, who could play outside or inside linebacker in the Bills’ new 3-4 defense. Of course, that assumes Jones would also be available at No. 8. At this point, no one really knows where anyone will or won’t be in the top 10 ." Thanks Florio. I know a lot of people like this guy, but I've never been on board with him.
John from Riverside Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 If the phone rings to trade down because of this guy and we can get another 2nd in the process? Do it...DO IT
KOKBILLS Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 If the phone rings to trade down because of this guy and we can get another 2nd in the process? Do it...DO IT Exactly... Also...I'm more than willing to take the chance at being wrong about Jones...But I want nothing to do with that kid...Especially not at #8...I realize he may not have been 100% at his workout...But the injury questions, super-slow 40 time @240 lbs...I would pass and let someone else risk it...Just too many questions surrounding him... Pass...
Max997 Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Jarvis Jones is the absolute last guy I want the Bills to take at 8...Id rather see them draft another CB then take Jones and Im tired of seeing them draft corners early
4BillsintheBurgh Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 He reminds me of James Harrison. I'd take him.
OldTimer1960 Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 I think the Bills are looking at him as a possible 2nd round pick. It would not surprise me if he were available then. I know the arguments about how productive he was in the SEC - and that is very important. However, 4.95 in the 40 for a 6'2" 242 lb OLB who you are going to ask to rush the passer in the 3-4 is a big red flag for early in round 1. Yes, he might be productive in the NFL in spite of his speed, but then again he might not. I think it is too big of a risk for a high round 1 pick (just my $.02 worth) and I think many teams will feel the same way. I know about Terrell Suggs, but he was nearly 2" and 20 lbs heavier. In round 2, I would think the risk/reward given his productivity, would be in favor of taking him. This is similar to a highly productive college WR running a 4.7 40. Now, I know of at least one exception in that regard (Anquan Boldin), but the majority don't pan out in the NFL.
....lybob Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 I think the Bills are looking at him as a possible 2nd round pick. It would not surprise me if he were available then. I know the arguments about how productive he was in the SEC - and that is very important. However, 4.95 in the 40 for a 6'2" 242 lb OLB who you are going to ask to rush the passer in the 3-4 is a big red flag for early in round 1. Yes, he might be productive in the NFL in spite of his speed, but then again he might not. I think it is too big of a risk for a high round 1 pick (just my $.02 worth) and I think many teams will feel the same way. I know about Terrell Suggs, but he was nearly 2" and 20 lbs heavier. In round 2, I would think the risk/reward given his productivity, would be in favor of taking him. This is similar to a highly productive college WR running a 4.7 40. Now, I know of at least one exception in that regard (Anquan Boldin), but the majority don't pan out in the NFL. Suggs also ran a 4.61
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Suggs also ran a 4.61 And wasnt his worst a tick better than jones to (4.8s vs 4.9s), plus an extra 20lbs, plus a much better time on record.... Add in work ethic, and injury questions (though fading some)... He's a risky one.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 5, 2013 Posted April 5, 2013 Jordan or Jones. I'd be happy with either at 8. I think Jordan has more potential but Jones is more proven Aha, so you would rather have a pass rushing linebacker! All kidding aside, a good litmus test for those who simply say "I want the Bills to draft a linebacker" would be to ask them: "Would you rather have Jarvis Jones or Alec Ogletree?"
NewEra Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 "But the Bills need to be ready at No. 8, in the event someone else takes quarterback Geno Smith before Buffalo is on the clock. The options at that point will include: (1) taking a different quarterback; (2) trading down for a different quarterback; (3) using the pick on someone else." "That someone else could be Jones, who could play outside or inside linebacker in the Bills’ new 3-4 defense. Of course, that assumes Jones would also be available at No. 8. At this point, no one really knows where anyone will or won’t be in the top 10 ." Thanks Florio. I know a lot of people like this guy, but I've never been on board with him. Just wondering why you aren't on board with him? I think the Bills are looking at him as a possible 2nd round pick. It would not surprise me if he were available then. I know the arguments about how productive he was in the SEC - and that is very important. However, 4.95 in the 40 for a 6'2" 242 lb OLB who you are going to ask to rush the passer in the 3-4 is a big red flag for early in round 1. Yes, he might be productive in the NFL in spite of his speed, but then again he might not. I think it is too big of a risk for a high round 1 pick (just my $.02 worth) and I think many teams will feel the same way. I know about Terrell Suggs, but he was nearly 2" and 20 lbs heavier. In round 2, I would think the risk/reward given his productivity, would be in favor of taking him. This is similar to a highly productive college WR running a 4.7 40. Now, I know of at least one exception in that regard (Anquan Boldin), but the majority don't pan out in the NFL. . How many times to pass rushers run 40 yards to get to the QB? Just wondering? This guy has done nothing but dominate sec competition for his entire career. Mingo has great measurables, but can't seem to actually get to the QB. Who do you take? The guy that has great burst or the guy who constantly dominated games? Pretty easy choice IMO. Aha, so you would rather have a pass rushing linebacker! All kidding aside, a good litmus test for those who simply say "I want the Bills to draft a linebacker" would be to ask them: "Would you rather have Jarvis Jones or Alec Ogletree?" Anyone saying they'd rather have ogletree is clueless IMO. Jones dominated games. Dominates
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Just wondering why you aren't on board with him? . How many times to pass rushers run 40 yards to get to the QB? Just wondering? This guy has done nothing but dominate sec competition for his entire career. Mingo has great measurables, but can't seem to actually get to the QB. Who do you take? The guy that has great burst or the guy who constantly dominated games? Pretty easy choice IMO. Anyone saying they'd rather have ogletree is clueless IMO. Jones dominated games. Dominates Even if they were both outstanding in their core competencies, to me it would be like asking would you rather have Von Miller or Luke Keuchly? Pass rusher every time for me. But you have people who feel differently. For God's sake there's virtually a Rey Maualuga fan club on this board. It's kind of analogous to the "draft a guard at #8 faction." There's a real leather helmet contingent here which still thinks that the greatest good in football is running and stopping the run.
808 Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 he was hurt at his pro day and it was out there that he tweaked his hammy at the start of the workout. so that explained his so slow times. watch the video of it. he is wincing while trying to finish the 40s. you guys see 4.9 and are saying hes slow. lol seriously we are speaking about hundreaths of a second here hes not a speed exclusive rusher anyway. watch his game tape and not him running in undies with a tweaked hammy. i give him credit for even trying to run it after he hurt himself.
Kemp Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Aha, so you would rather have a pass rushing linebacker! All kidding aside, a good litmus test for those who simply say "I want the Bills to draft a linebacker" would be to ask them: "Would you rather have Jarvis Jones or Alec Ogletree?" I would like both, please.
OldTimer1960 Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 he was hurt at his pro day and it was out there that he tweaked his hammy at the start of the workout. so that explained his so slow times. watch the video of it. he is wincing while trying to finish the 40s. you guys see 4.9 and are saying hes slow. lol seriously we are speaking about hundreaths of a second here hes not a speed exclusive rusher anyway. watch his game tape and not him running in undies with a tweaked hammy. i give him credit for even trying to run it after he hurt himself. Be suspicious that he was really hurt. Perhaps he didn't run at the combine because he knew he wasn't fast. He HAD to run sometime, so he did at his pro day. He may have thought that his best chance was to feign injury while doing his run. To be clear, I do think that his productivity in the SEC speaks loudly, but not doubt the lack of speed shown has to be considered to some degree. I suspect he really is that "slow", so (to me) it seems that you better be able to tell from his game tape just how he was able to be as productive as he was in the SEC without having superior speed. Then it would be important to figure out how that will project to the NFL. We are really talking about more than hundreths of a second - actually an order of magnitude more. Von Miller was very productive in college and relied on his speed - but he ran something like a 4.4 at around 230 lbs. He is only about 10 lbs smaller than Jarvis Jones and ran nearly a half a second faster. That is the difference between some WRs and some OL. Again, does that automatically mean that Jarvis Jones won't be productive in the NFL? No, but it is something that a team needs to consider and understand. It does add risk in projecting Jones to the NFL.
NewEra Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 Be suspicious that he was really hurt. Perhaps he didn't run at the combine because he knew he wasn't fast. He HAD to run sometime, so he did at his pro day. He may have thought that his best chance was to feign injury while doing his run. To be clear, I do think that his productivity in the SEC speaks loudly, but not doubt the lack of speed shown has to be considered to some degree. I suspect he really is that "slow", so (to me) it seems that you better be able to tell from his game tape just how he was able to be as productive as he was in the SEC without having superior speed. Then it would be important to figure out how that will project to the NFL. We are really talking about more than hundreths of a second - actually an order of magnitude more. Von Miller was very productive in college and relied on his speed - but he ran something like a 4.4 at around 230 lbs. He is only about 10 lbs smaller than Jarvis Jones and ran nearly a half a second faster. That is the difference between some WRs and some OL. Again, does that automatically mean that Jarvis Jones won't be productive in the NFL? No, but it is something that a team needs to consider and understand. It does add risk in projecting Jones to the NFL. Yes, teams need to consider and understand he ran a 4.9 and isn't very fast. He's fast enough to dominate the line of scrimmage IMO. The real worry regarding jones is his medical condition. Worth the risk at 8 considering our lack of Lbs and defensive attitude the last 10 years. The guy is a football player. If we played a strict 4-3 defense, I wouldn't want him. Considering our new DC, there's no one I want more (other than a great QB).
biggerdaddynj Posted April 6, 2013 Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) Here's an article in which spinal stenosis and Jarvis Jones and the NFL is discussed by a top doc from Mt. Sinai Hospital. Interesting read: http://www.austinchronicle.com/blogs/sports/2013-01-23/the-nfl-beat-spinal-stenosis/ I'm now more concerned about the article citing his lack of work ethic. Edited April 6, 2013 by biggerdaddynj
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