mannc Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Never has a franchise so richly earned such skepticism. Keep up the good work.
Delete This Account Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) and since no one at OBD is willing to talk except to the team-controlled radio show and its website, it certainly opens the door to questions, no? jw Edited January 21, 2013 by john wawrow
Punch Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 and since no one at OBD is willing to talk except to the team-controlled radio show and its website, it certainly opens the door to questions, no? jw Would you happen to know how common this is amongst other teams for this time of year in today's NFL?
Delete This Account Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 Would you happen to know how common this is amongst other teams for this time of year in today's NFL? don't know. don't care. don't cover other teams. either way, the truth eventually comes out. jw
Punch Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 don't know. don't care. don't cover other teams. either way, the truth eventually comes out. jw Fair enough. I'm not crazy about the Orwellian environment at OBD you portray but I certainly appreciate you disclosing it.
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 JW Thanks for starting this thread and giving your opinion. I often find myself looking for opinion pieces from informed individuals. I like to hear opinion and not just read facts, but I want informed opinion not someone who may cover the team or does some research. I want someone that is around and has history with the team. Thanks.
Doc Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Wait, you wanted Whis, who the Bills interviewed several times, but you feel they weren't exhaustive enough? Not sure how to reconcile that position.
Lurker Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 i don't know. What the "red pencil" would have left of this post...
CodeMonkey Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Wait, you wanted Whis, who the Bills interviewed several times, but you feel they weren't exhaustive enough? Not sure how to reconcile that position. Very easy to reconcile. He may have wanted Whiz, but he isn't skeptical because the Bills chose someone else. He is skeptical because of the haste in which the coach [and his staff] was chosen when the decree from OBD was "leave no stone unturned", and the apparent "hands off" stance the Bills are currently in regarding the coaching staff. I am also skeptical, but hopeful. But honestly I don't see a lot to get excited about at this point. Edited January 21, 2013 by CodeMonkey
hondo in seattle Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Very easy to reconcile. He may have wanted Whiz, but he isn't skeptical because the Bills chose someone else. He is skeptical because of the haste in which the coach [and his staff] was chosen when the decree from OBD was "leave no stone unturned", and the apparent "hands off" stance the Bills are currently in regarding the coaching staff. I am also skeptical, but hopeful. But honestly I don't see a lot to get excited about at this point. Haste? OBD did plenty of due diligence BEFORE Gailey was fired (I'm assuming). While they liked Marrone from the get-go, they interviewed him 5 times before hiring him. Who else should they have interviewed? Once they found their man, they hired him before someone else did and we ended up with dregs again. Hands off? So what? This means nothing. Some coaches and teams are more transparent that others. I don't really care. I just want wins and I don't think there's any correlation between transparency and win-loss perception. Bottom line, I agree there's not a lot to get excited about. None of the available candidates made me excited. All of them - Chip Kelly included - have question marks and concerns. I just don't see any reason for skepticism either. I think Russ, Nix, Whaley and the staff did massive amounts of homework on their list of candidates. And, based on that, Russ believes they got the right guy to turn the team around. Dungy or Cowher would have excited me. But given the realities of our options, I'm good with Marrone. I would have been depressed if we had kept Chan & Wanny. Now I'm thinking, "Well, at least there's a chance the sun might rise tomorrow."
Doc Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 Very easy to reconcile. He may have wanted Whiz, but he isn't skeptical because the Bills chose someone else. He is skeptical because of the haste in which the coach [and his staff] was chosen when the decree from OBD was "leave no stone unturned", and the apparent "hands off" stance the Bills are currently in regarding the coaching staff. I am also skeptical, but hopeful. But honestly I don't see a lot to get excited about at this point. About the only thing they could have done differently was wait to interview the coordinators still coaching in the playoffs. However I believe they interviewed Mike McCoy, Bruce Arians is over 60 and had to go to the hospital the morning of his team's biggest game of the year, and Gus Bradley is the only other coach they didn't interview who was hired as a HC, and he isn't giving anyone a thrill up their leg. And by waiting, they may have lost-out on Pettine and his crew.
JohnC Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 don't know. don't care. don't cover other teams. either way, the truth eventually comes out. jw At this point what does it matter what the truth is? The issue now is his performance. For me the bigger issue is the performance of the front office with respect to the draft and free agency. If Nix is still the dominant force in the front office then what has really changed in the organization? In my view Brandon made a major mistake in not relieving Nix of his duties. That would have been a clear statement to the fan base that a new level of accountability was going to be established at OBD. That didn't happen. Skepticism is a reasonable approach to take.
Lurker Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 About the only thing they could have done differently was wait to interview the coordinators still coaching in the playoffs. However I believe they interviewed Mike McCoy, Bruce Arians is over 60 and had to go to the hospital the morning of his team's biggest game of the year, and Gus Bradley is the only other coach they didn't interview who was hired as a HC, and he isn't giving anyone a thrill up their leg. And by waiting, they may have lost-out on Pettine and his crew. Agreed. They took a new approach by NOT waiting until the cupboard was bare (as in past coaching hires) and went with the second hottest college coaching candidate actually looking for an NFL job (and the only one with NFL experience) when it became apparent that Chip Kelly was not interested in a small market franchise. http://www.phillymag.com/eagles/2012/11/26/peter-kings-15-head-coaching-candidates/ Anyway, I took the whole "due diligence" slant to be code words for "controlled media access..."
CodeMonkey Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Haste? OBD did plenty of due diligence BEFORE Gailey was fired (I'm assuming). While they liked Marrone from the get-go, they interviewed him 5 times before hiring him. Who else should they have interviewed? Once they found their man, they hired him before someone else did and we ended up with dregs again. Hands off? So what? This means nothing. Some coaches and teams are more transparent that others. I don't really care. I just want wins and I don't think there's any correlation between transparency and win-loss perception. Bottom line, I agree there's not a lot to get excited about. None of the available candidates made me excited. All of them - Chip Kelly included - have question marks and concerns. I just don't see any reason for skepticism either. I think Russ, Nix, Whaley and the staff did massive amounts of homework on their list of candidates. And, based on that, Russ believes they got the right guy to turn the team around. Dungy or Cowher would have excited me. But given the realities of our options, I'm good with Marrone. I would have been depressed if we had kept Chan & Wanny. Now I'm thinking, "Well, at least there's a chance the sun might rise tomorrow." About the only thing they could have done differently was wait to interview the coordinators still coaching in the playoffs. However I believe they interviewed Mike McCoy, Bruce Arians is over 60 and had to go to the hospital the morning of his team's biggest game of the year, and Gus Bradley is the only other coach they didn't interview who was hired as a HC, and he isn't giving anyone a thrill up their leg. And by waiting, they may have lost-out on Pettine and his crew. The Bills coaching carousel the past 13 years does not give me any confidence in Russ's ability to know the right guy to turn the team around if he bit him on the ass. But 100% new staff and one would assume a rookie QB so I guess they get a pass next year. So once again we will see in 2 or 3 years if both Marrone and his hiring of his buddies works out. FWIW I like the Jets D coaching hires and I also feel like the sun just might rise tomorrow, or at least next season. But maybe it's just the Pats getting their asses handed to them yesterday putting me in a good mood Edited January 21, 2013 by CodeMonkey
Delete This Account Posted January 21, 2013 Author Posted January 21, 2013 At this point what does it matter what the truth is? The issue now is his performance. For me the bigger issue is the performance of the front office with respect to the draft and free agency. If Nix is still the dominant force in the front office then what has really changed in the organization? In my view Brandon made a major mistake in not relieving Nix of his duties. That would have been a clear statement to the fan base that a new level of accountability was going to be established at OBD. That didn't happen. Skepticism is a reasonable approach to take. with respect, my mention of the truth was in reference to the truth coming out once the next season begins, as in: you can't hide performance. jw
eball Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 and since no one at OBD is willing to talk except to the team-controlled radio show and its website, it certainly opens the door to questions, no? jw Aye, there's the rub. That's what I've sensed since the moment Russ came out and announced the organizational changes. The Bills have decided to operate differently than they have in the past, and none of the local media know what to do with that. You're correct, jw, not much will be revealed until we see results on the field. We can ask all the questions we want.
BillnutinHouston Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) and since no one at OBD is willing to talk except to the team-controlled radio show and its website, it certainly opens the door to questions, no? jw It's fine to question. But personally if I was Brandon, I'd much rather shield my head coach and FO staff from pesky media availabilities and instead let him focus on: - getting the new staff on the same page - draft research - player/roster evaluation - free agent negotiations - building offensive & defensive schemes - planning OTA's and training camp schedules A college coach coming into the NFL doesn't exactly have a "template" for effectively planning all these activities at the NFL level and according to the NFL calendar. I'm all for having him huddle in a back room and figure all of this out, as opposed to satisfying the media's curiosity. Sorry JW! Edited January 21, 2013 by BillnutinHouston
John from Riverside Posted January 21, 2013 Posted January 21, 2013 John maybe Morrone really was the browns second choice.......and Chip started waivering so the bills hired him before they actually lost him?
thewildrabbit Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 John maybe Morrone really was the browns second choice.......and Chip started wavering so the bills hired him before they actually lost him? Its my take that as soon as Brandon was convinced he had found the right guy, he hired him. I'm just as skeptical as most, and yet after reading that some of the Syracuse football teams players quit once they found out what kind of task master had taken control of their team. It made me look deeper into this new HC's background. "The first year for those boys is probably going to be pretty rough, especially in training camp, those sort of things, because he's going to want to find out who's going to stick with him when times are tough," This coming from an ex Buffalo Bills player. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130117/doug-marrone-bills/ Marrone is an ex-O linemen in the NFL, and an ex-O line coach which to me sounds an awful lot like another ex Buffalo Bills HC by the name of Chuck Knox. I'm not saying he is a Knox clone, just thinking he might just be tho. Look at the two teams in the super bowl this year, both noted for being dominate running teams. I think most Bills fans would welcome a HC with a tendency to pound the ball like the Ravens and 49ers. I look back at coaches like Dick Jauron / Chan Gailey both well liked by everyone who they worked with, and the Bills players loved Jauron and played their hearts out for him. I'm sure Ken Wisenhunt is another good guy, but he would never be my choice for HC because all three men, tho all well liked, are not winners. Lets face facts, 9-7 / 10-6 although winning records, just won't win the division in the AFC East. The Bills need a tough as nails offensive-minded coach with a reputation for being a disciplinarian, along with the ability to turn around a losing program. Remember the line by Marv Levy When its too tough for them, its just right for us" Thats the type of HC the Buffalo Bills need, and not another "nice guys finish last" type of HC. The Big question? Will Marrone be capable of building a team to compete with Bills Belichick? We already know his choice for DC was able to beat Brady many times during his time with the Jets. Plus his defensive philosophy is an “attacking style of defense” that is “relentless” and does not “sit back and let offenses dictate to us.” Rather then the bend but don't break of Jauron's schemes or the vanilla rush only the front four of Wannstedt. On an a different note, its good to know you joined us as a concerned skeptical Bills fan Welcome to the "we care too damn much club".
BRAWNDO Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 It's fine to question. But personally if I was Brandon, I'd much rather shield my head coach and FO staff from pesky media availabilities and instead let him focus on: - getting the new staff on the same page - draft research - player/roster evaluation - free agent negotiations - building offensive & defensive schemes - planning OTA's and training camp schedules A college coach coming into the NFL doesn't exactly have a "template" for effectively planning all these activities at the NFL level and according to the NFL calendar. I'm all for having him huddle in a back room and figure all of this out, as opposed to satisfying the media's curiosity. Sorry JW! These are excellent points, but if Brandon wants to change the perception of the franchise he should look at the team's track record with the media. Too often this organization has been described as a black hole for information by the media. One would think initially after the hire Marrone and his new staff especially Hackett and Pettine would be available to discuss what their vision for the Bills Future is. Local reporters such as JW, Mark Gaughan and Tim Graham should have access to inside info long before Espn.
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