my skepticism

[BobDVA]

I am sorry jw, it remains unclear to me just what stone was not turned? The two hot college coaches Kelly, and Marrone were the ones being displayed by the talking heads. The Bills interviewed both and hired one of them. What gem was hiding under what stone that was missed by Brandon? What unemployed former NFL coach was missed?

 

Isn't Brandon's job to put a spit shine on his new coach? Controlling negative questions seems reasonable to me in this day and age, this is why people have jobs as press agents and PR people. All that aside, I do appreciate you jw for actually posting a debatable topic. as opposed to the many statements of absurdity that has graced the topic page the past month.

[bigK14094]

I am also sckeptical. I learned how to put a team of doers together in the business world. I understand he brought in a lot a guys he knew, because he had a connection with them, especially from a communication point of view. BUT, he has made two mistakes in my view. 1) No holdovers from the old staff. HIS team will lack a lot in terms of knowing the relevant background of the players. He should have retained a couple of the old staff based on merit. For example, Bruce Dehaven would have made sense to me, even Pete Metzlars. But, he brought in a special teams coach from Detroit with subpar results. Reminds me of the Wade Phillips/ronnie Jones fiasco of a decade ago. 2) I learned through verious transitions and assembling teams, a difference of opionion is a good thing, I worry all his gumba's on this staff will not push his thinking. Seriously thinking about not renewing my season ticket package, not sure this guy can get it done. HIs organizational moves have been weak in my view. Likely another three and out regime, don't know why I should pay to see that.

[first_and_ten]

I am also sckeptical. I learned how to put a team of doers together in the business world. I understand he brought in a lot a guys he knew, because he had a connection with them, especially from a communication point of view. BUT, he has made two mistakes in my view. 1) No holdovers from the old staff. HIS team will lack a lot in terms of knowing the relevant background of the players. He should have retained a couple of the old staff based on merit. For example, Bruce Dehaven would have made sense to me, even Pete Metzlars. But, he brought in a special teams coach from Detroit with subpar results. Reminds me of the Wade Phillips/ronnie Jones fiasco of a decade ago. 2) I learned through verious transitions and assembling teams, a difference of opionion is a good thing, I worry all his gumba's on this staff will not push his thinking. Seriously thinking about not renewing my season ticket package, not sure this guy can get it done. HIs organizational moves have been weak in my view. Likely another three and out regime, don't know why I should pay to see that.

 

Yet you renewed when Gailey was hired?

Edited January 20, 2013 by first_and_ten

[Lurker]

I am also sckeptical. I learned how to put a team of doers together in the business world.

 

Thanks for the good laugh...

[KD in CA]

I am sorry jw, it remains unclear to me just what stone was not turned? The two hot college coaches Kelly, and Marrone were the ones being displayed by the talking heads. The Bills interviewed both and hired one of them. What gem was hiding under what stone that was missed by Brandon? What unemployed former NFL coach was missed?

 

I agree with this; there were 7 teams looking for coaches and the Bills were certainly not going to be the top choice of most/any candidates. The longer the Bills waited to fill the position the more likely they were to end up with another "retread" that everyone would have screamed about. Sometimes you have to move quickly to get the results you want.

[xsoldier54]

This coaching staff has disaster written all over. Inexperienced Syracuse cronies and inept former NFl assistants Add in incompetent front office in Nix and Whaley equals a top ten pick in 2014.

If there's one thing I love about this board, it's the unbridled optimism.

[eball]

He denied it a few different times in a few different contexts, saying there simply wasn't time to watch all the film on the Bills to evaluate players. He seemed to have little idea or opinion on any of the players on the Bills last year.

 

Do we really believe a coach being pursued by numerous teams wouldn't evaluate the pros/cons of each job? I find it easier to believe Marrone did "evaluate" several teams and their players, just not to the exhaustive extent it was represented by Schefter.

[bananathumb]

I am also sckeptical. I learned how to put a team of doers together in the business world. I understand he brought in a lot a guys he knew, because he had a connection with them, especially from a communication point of view. BUT, he has made two mistakes in my view. 1) No holdovers from the old staff. HIS team will lack a lot in terms of knowing the relevant background of the players. He should have retained a couple of the old staff based on merit. For example, Bruce Dehaven would have made sense to me, even Pete Metzlars. But, he brought in a special teams coach from Detroit with subpar results. Reminds me of the Wade Phillips/ronnie Jones fiasco of a decade ago. 2) I learned through verious transitions and assembling teams, a difference of opionion is a good thing, I worry all his gumba's on this staff will not push his thinking. Seriously thinking about not renewing my season ticket package, not sure this guy can get it done. HIs organizational moves have been weak in my view. Likely another three and out regime, don't know why I should pay to see that.

 

Well- stated. Obviously, if he was running a business, he'd be questioned.

But Bills fans are an easy sell.

[Hater]

Adam Schefter Says NFL Executives think Doug Marrone will be the successful out of the first time new head coaches

[Punch]

Adam Schefter Says NFL Executives think Doug Marrone will be the successful out of the first time new head coaches

 

He's only saying that because he shares an agent with Marrone.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

BTW, my recollection is that Shefter reported that Marrone had done intensive video study of all the teams he might interview with and determined that Buffalo had the best talent.

 

I don't recall any rumor stating that Marrone made a video presentation to teams he was interviewing with.

 

Small point maybe but anyways, that's the report I recall.

[Hater]

He's only saying that because he shares an agent with Marrone.

 

 

Have a little faith

Edited January 20, 2013 by Hater

[Punch]

 

 

 

Have a little faith

 

Just a little joke based on what has been written in this thread.

[CookieG]

None of the hires were exciting. 1 retread, 1 hot college coach and a bunch of who is this guy? (Andy Reid - Kansas City, Chip Kelly - Philly, Marc Trestman - Chicago, Gus Bradley - Jacksonville, Mike McCoy - SD, Rob Chudzinski - Cleveland, Bruce Arians - Arizona and Doug Marrone - Buffalo.) 8 vacancies and not 1 big name that was available was hired. Is this a mass conspiracy? Lets all hire second rate head coaches and leave all the really good candidates on the shelf. I don't thinks so. I know that it may not cross many minds but maybe guys like Cowher and Jon Grunden don't want to coach again. They have cushy TV jobs and none of the head aches associated with coaching.

 

Wondering "what big name was available?" is probably what Brandon was thinking, unfortunately.

 

As he was turning over stones, ( or not)...he might have found a few like this:

 

-Gus Bradley turned the Seahawks defense from one of the worst in the league to one of the best (No. 1 scoring D in 2012). Top 10 D the last 2 years.

 

-Darrell Bevell- Bradley's offensive counterpart, turned Seattle's offense into a top 10 offense with a 3rd round rookie QB and a Bills' cast off at RB.

 

-Rob Chudzinki - Did one of the more remarkable offensive turnarounds in recent memory. Prior to 2011, the Panthers offense was the worst in the NFL, by far. They were averaging 12 points per game. They ended up 4th in the league a year later. He was the one that actually made Derek Anderson a one year wonder in Cleveland. How he ever got a top 10 offense in Cleveland, even for a year, is incredible.

 

-Greg Roman- OC San Fran. Created a top 10 offense in the NFL with Alex Smith, and later with a 2nd round, 2nd year QB. Fewest turnovers in the league. Coaching in the NFC championship game today.

 

-Vic Fangio- DC San Fran. Probably the best D in the league since he's got there.

 

-Bruce Arians- was originally brought in to groom a rookie QB on the worst team in the league, what was supposed to be a rebuilding year. Right before the season started, he found out he would be taking over the entire team. Not only did he groom his QB, he took his team to the playoffs.

 

That's a short list. It doesn't include any asst. coach from NE, or Balt, or Atl, Pitt. or any other college coach, of which there are many good ones.

 

That doesn't mean you choose all of these guys. Obviously, that's impossible. But how do you claim to :"turn over every stone" and conduct an "exhaustive and thorough" search, without considering, much less interviewing, a single coach from a playoff team, (you know, the successful ones)?

 

I think this is what Mr. Wawrow is getting at. The claim of "turning over every stone" is at odds with the actions of this situation.

 

Due diligence, like due process, varies under the circumstances of a particular situation. In this situation, where a team has not made the playoffs for 13 years, is going on its 7th coach in a little more than a decade, and has failed on its last 4 coaching hires, I'd say due diligence requires a little more from your non-football decision making CEO than "Hey, I know this guy!"

 

[xsoldier54]

Wondering "what big name was available?" is probably what Brandon was thinking, unfortunately.

 

As he was turning over stones, ( or not)...he might have found a few like this:

 

-Gus Bradley turned the Seahawks defense from one of the worst in the league to one of the best (No. 1 scoring D in 2012). Top 10 D the last 2 years.

 

-Darrell Bevell- Bradley's offensive counterpart, turned Seattle's offense into a top 10 offense with a 3rd round rookie QB and a Bills' cast off at RB.

 

-Rob Chudzinki - Did one of the more remarkable offensive turnarounds in recent memory. Prior to 2011, the Panthers offense was the worst in the NFL, by far. They were averaging 12 points per game. They ended up 4th in the league a year later. He was the one that actually made Derek Anderson a one year wonder in Cleveland. How he ever got a top 10 offense in Cleveland, even for a year, is incredible.

 

-Greg Roman- OC San Fran. Created a top 10 offense in the NFL with Alex Smith, and later with a 2nd round, 2nd year QB. Fewest turnovers in the league. Coaching in the NFC championship game today.

 

-Vic Fangio- DC San Fran. Probably the best D in the league since he's got there.

 

-Bruce Arians- was originally brought in to groom a rookie QB on the worst team in the league, what was supposed to be a rebuilding year. Right before the season started, he found out he would be taking over the entire team. Not only did he groom his QB, he took his team to the playoffs.

 

That's a short list. It doesn't include any asst. coach from NE, or Balt, or Atl, Pitt. or any other college coach, of which there are many good ones.

 

That doesn't mean you choose all of these guys. Obviously, that's impossible. But how do you claim to :"turn over every stone" and conduct an "exhaustive and thorough" search, without considering, much less interviewing, a single coach from a playoff team, (you know, the successful ones)?

 

I think this is what Mr. Wawrow is getting at. The claim of "turning over every stone" is at odds with the actions of this situation.

 

Due diligence, like due process, varies under the circumstances of a particular situation. In this situation, where a team has not made the playoffs for 13 years, is going on its 7th coach in a little more than a decade, and has failed on its last 4 coaching hires, I'd say due diligence requires a little more from your non-football decision making CEO than "Hey, I know this guy!"

 

 

Can you tell me what all of the people that you mentioned lack? That's right, experience as a HC. Marrone left the NFL for Syracuse to get some HC experience. That to me gives him the edge over everyone you mentioned. He has NFL experience as a coordinator and position coach and also experience as a HC. None of the other candidates that you mentioned have that.

[CookieG]

Can you tell me what all of the people that you mentioned lack?

 

A friendship with Russ Brandon?

 

That's right, experience as a HC. Marrone left the NFL for Syracuse to get some HC experience. That to me gives him the edge over everyone you mentioned. He has NFL experience as a coordinator and position coach and also experience as a HC. None of the other candidates that you mentioned have that.

 

Ah, so if a guy runs a top NFL offense, or top NFL defense, they are eliminated from consideration because they don't have head coaching experience.

 

But if they do have head coaching experience and are looking for a job, they are a "retread".

 

I like that.

 

Certainly cuts down on the interviews.

[Punch]

-Rob Chudzinki - Did one of the more remarkable offensive turnarounds in recent memory. Prior to 2011, the Panthers offense was the worst in the NFL, by far. They were averaging 12 points per game. They ended up 4th in the league a year later. He was the one that actually made Derek Anderson a one year wonder in Cleveland. How he ever got a top 10 offense in Cleveland, even for a year, is incredible.

 

Were there any other differences between the 2010 Panthers offense and the 2011-12 Panthers offense? I can think of at least one.

 

For the record, Carolina's offense started the 2012 season as an absolute tire fire although they did eventually right the ship.

 

In addition to the "no stone left unturned" comment, they also said in the same press conference that they would hire the right guy as soon as they identified him. Arians, Fangio, Roman, Bradley, and Bevell were all still coaching in the Wild Card playoff weekend. The Bills met with Marrone as many as 4 times. If Marrone didn't impress, it is possible the candidates still coaching wpuld have been interviewed. Do you know for certain this would not have been the case?

 

My only beef with this argument is that it requires mental gymnastics to make it work. They said they'd hire the right man for the job when they identified him. They interviewed several candidates. Then they hired a guy. If Marrone isn't the right coach, we'll know very soon.

[thewildrabbit]

Were there any other differences between the 2010 Panthers offense and the 2011-12 Panthers offense? I can think of at least one.

 

For the record, Carolina's offense started the 2012 season as an absolute tire fire although they did eventually right the ship.

 

In addition to the "no stone left unturned" comment, they also said in the same press conference that they would hire the right guy as soon as they identified him. Arians, Fangio, Roman, Bradley, and Bevell were all still coaching in the Wild Card playoff weekend. The Bills met with Marrone as many as 4 times. If Marrone didn't impress, it is possible the candidates still coaching wpuld have been interviewed. Do you know for certain this would not have been the case?

 

My only beef with this argument is that it requires mental gymnastics to make it work. They said they'd hire the right man for the job when they identified him. They interviewed several candidates. Then they hired a guy. If Marrone isn't the right coach, we'll know very soon.

What difference does it make if the search wasn't exhaustive or detailed like as stated. Russ Brandon got his man! This is Buffalo and the Buffalo Bills we are talking about. Ralph Wilson still owns the team, and with that fact there are many questions that people like Bill Cowher / Chip Kelly would want answered. Whereas Marrone is just happy as a clam to have one of the 32 Jobs as an NFL HC.

 

At least this hire was not of someone who was completely out of football the year prior to being hired, nor was he fired as an assistant coach two weeks before the start of that season. In my mind that's about as equal as Gailey cutting Trent Edwards two weeks into the season in 2010 and another team picking Edwards up in 2011 and immediately making him the starting QB. The Gailey hiring reeked of desperation at the time, and Buddy Nix is an idiot for stating mid season that Gailey is one of the best offensive minds in the league. If that were even near true then why doesn't the man have another HCing job yet? Oh wait, he is still getting paid by the Buffalo Bills to do nothing right?

 

Russ Brandon put his future in the hands of Doug Marrone, and should Marrone fail hard Brandon will get all the blame for this hire, and not Nix / Whaley / Wilson. Yea, we will know very soon if this were the right choice.

[JPS]

The thought occurred to me that maybe it's as good of a year to find a "franchise coach" as it is to find a franchise QB. When the NFL changes coaches about 7 per year, sooner or later, the good candidates are all used up.

 

Have the Bills assembled a good staff? Who knows. I suspect that much will depend on how well the boy wonder does with the offense. I agree that some effort has been made to spin this hire, but what did you expect from Russ Brandon?

[Delete This Account]

let's be clear on a few things here. i chose "skepticism" on purpose, not "doubt" or "concern" or "feelings of doom."

for those suggesting that i reveal sources or report what i know, well, that's just it. from everything that i know, this is what i've come up with: a kind of "i don't know." and yet i can't ignore the feelings of being skeptical in the wake of this latest "new era" that's supposed to be different from the other "new eras" when it's quite evident that the only changes that have been made are at the coaching level, something this team has gone through more than once before.

 

i'll also state this: my initial choice for coach was Whisenhunt (and also heard good things about Tom Cable and perhaps Jay Gruden). and my choice for coach when they hired Gregg Williams was John Fox. and my choice for coach when the Bills hired Jauron was not Jauron.

and my choice before they hired Chan was actually Perry Fewell, though i told friends and colleagues that Perry was the "right coach" at the wrong time. Buddy wanted someone with experience and it's unclear whether the fanbase would support someone who was so connected to Jauron, especially after the fire'em all billboards went up.

 

so, having been to this rodeo more than once in my 13 years here, i have developed a level of "skepticism" particularly after how last season unraveled. hopes were dashed and very little changed, particularly the record. and what happens amid all this is a good man gets fired and the promise of "an exhaustive" search lasts a mere four days when it's particularly clear there were far more stones that could've been turned.

 

if Russ Brandon is in this for the long run, then why rush to make a decision? i don't know. that's not been explained except the comment from Buddy Nix in which he said they found their man. well, what was the rush. if Doug Marrone was the man, why talk to Chip Kelly and Lovie Smith? and why go so far as to set up an interview with Mike McCoy only to have that postponed by McCoy.

 

a franchise that's had one real sniff at the playoffs in 13 seasons, i think, should do more to uncover all stones rather than tip over a few and leave the rest for others. is the expectation to win next season? well, that's not clear. and if it's not, and another rebuilding process is in order with a new quarterback and, most definitely, a new coaching staff then where does that leave anyone at this point? two, three years away?

 

well, if that's the case, then why not wait until after the Super Bowl to come up with more than a modest list of candidates that can be pored over. too often over these past five coaching searches, the Bills have rushed to find their man in essentially the first couple of weeks of January.

 

Gregg Williams was hired on Feb. 1, or about three weeks after the titans were eliminated from the playoffs.

Mike Mularkey was hired on Jan. 15

Jauron was hired on Jan. 23, but two weeks after Mularkey resigned.

Gailey was hired on Jan. 20, three weeks after Buddy Nix took over.

And then there was Doug Marrone, who needed only five or so days to make an impression.

 

wouldn't a longer wait to find the man be thinking out of the box. ... heck, the Eagles, who have actually been to the playoffs were in the process of interviewing numerous candidates before Chip Kelly apparently reconsidered. so what is it in which Doug Marrone blew the Bills away in four or five interviews?

funny, i don't recall anyone ever saying except for vague references that he was the man.

 

maybe he is. for his sake and for the sake of a win-starved fanbase, i hope that's the case.

 

as i wrote, i hope this one works, because there's nothing as exhausting in the writing business as covering a coaching search.

 

that said, is it fair to say that the Bills really interviewed only four coaches and a "Rooney Rule" candidate. it could turn out that Horton was the most qualified, who knows.

 

as for my other point, can i not wonder why there has been such a desire to keep Doug and his staff under wraps, except for a few inhouse-conducted interviews with vaguely and safely crafted questions. i worry when people play their cards too close to their vests. it opens the door to skepticism, ergo this thread.

 

jw

Edited January 21, 2013 by john wawrow