my skepticism

[Dr. K]

I'm skeptical about the special teams and the offense. I'm pretty much prepared to say right now that, barring a major upgrade in personnel and maybe not even then, the offense will take a step back, not forward, from the 2012 Bills team.

[Willyville Guy]

Does anyone think we're going to solve our problems by cherry picking Syracuse? I mean this isn't LSU an hour from Buffalo!

 

 

I really hope the new group does well and I'm along for the ride. But the above sits in the pit of my stomach like an anchor.

[Kelly the Dog]

I could be wrong but I don't remember the Gailey hire being this way at all. I think the vast majority here were, like, WTF?! I hardly remember anyone liking the hire when it was announced, including myself.

 

Later, when people started looking into him, after realizing he was our guy so maybe we need to rally around him, people, including myself, were scrambling to look on the bright side. Not to be koolaid drinkers, but simply because it doesn't do any good to just B word about something between the hire and a year or even a couple years later when a decent verdict can be postulated.

 

Sooooo, then and only then, people started to say his record at Dallas was pretty good. The Chin recommended him. (Later on Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake, etc.)

 

Then, after he was introduced, people, including myself, liked the way he talked. He came across as a straight shooter. I think more and more started to give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, not really just being a shill for the team, but more hoping it was going to be okay. Then more and more stories came out about him wanting the job when a lot of other guys either turned the Bills down or turned down the interview. Whether or not all these reports or some of them were true or not was immaterial. No one really knew. So Chan started to get even more sympathy from the fans, who got behind him.

 

Over the course of the next two years, he either grew on you, or you thought he sucked. He grew on me. I started to like him. I thought the team looked a LOT better, especially around the Steeler and Raven close call losses. I started to really like him.

 

It still seemed about half and half between the fan base, maybe even 2/3 to 1/3 behind him at certain points. Polls on other sites had his approval rating in the 90s. It was understandable.

 

And then this year, he sucked, the entire year. The team disintegrated, for various reasons, including his selection of Wanny, which most everyone including myself liked at the time but which proved to be a monumental disaster. And over the course of the year, pretty much every non-shill turned on Chan.

 

I don't see the Marrone hire or reaction anything at all like the Gailey hire.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Kelly the Dog

[KOKBILLS]

I could be wrong but I don't remember the Gailey hire being this way at all. I think the vast majority here were, like, WTF?! I hardly remember anyone liking the hire when it was announced, including myself.

 

Later, when people started looking into him, after realizing he was our guy so maybe we need to rally around him, people, including myself, were scrambling to look on the bright side. Not to be koolaid drinkers, but simply because it doesn't do any good to just B word about something between the hire and a year or even a couple years later when a decent verdict can be postulated.

 

Sooooo, then and only then, people started to say his record at Dallas was pretty good. The Chin recommended him. (Later on Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake, etc.)

 

Then, after he was introduced, people, including myself, liked the way he talked. He came across as a straight shooter. I think more and more started to give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, not really just being a shill for the team, but more hoping it was going to be okay. Then more and more stories came out about him wanting the job when a lot of other guys either turned the Bills down or turned down the interview. Whether or not all these reports or some of them were true or not was immaterial. No one really knew. So Chan started to get even more sympathy from the fans, who got behind him.

 

Over the course of the next two years, he either grew on you, or you thought he sucked. He grew on me. I started to like him. I thought the team looked a LOT better, especially around the Steeler and Raven close call losses. I started to really like him.

 

It still seemed about half and half between the fan base, maybe even 2/3 to 1/3 behind him at certain points. Polls on other sites had his approval rating in the 90s. It was understandable.

 

And then this year, he sucked, the entire year. The team disintegrated, for various reasons, including his selection of Wanny, which most everyone including myself liked at the time but which proved to be a monumental disaster. And over the course of the year, pretty much every non-shill turned on Chan.

 

I don't see the Marrone hire or reaction anything at all like the Gailey hire.

 

Could not possibly agree more...

[Dr. K]

I could be wrong but I don't remember the Gailey hire being this way at all. I think the vast majority here were, like, WTF?! I hardly remember anyone liking the hire when it was announced, including myself.

 

Later, when people started looking into him, after realizing he was our guy so maybe we need to rally around him, people, including myself, were scrambling to look on the bright side. Not to be koolaid drinkers, but simply because it doesn't do any good to just B word about something between the hire and a year or even a couple years later when a decent verdict can be postulated.

 

Sooooo, then and only then, people started to say his record at Dallas was pretty good. The Chin recommended him. (Later on Jerry Jones said it was his biggest mistake, etc.)

 

Then, after he was introduced, people, including myself, liked the way he talked. He came across as a straight shooter. I think more and more started to give him the benefit of the doubt. Again, not really just being a shill for the team, but more hoping it was going to be okay. Then more and more stories came out about him wanting the job when a lot of other guys either turned the Bills down or turned down the interview. Whether or not all these reports or some of them were true or not was immaterial. No one really knew. So Chan started to get even more sympathy from the fans, who got behind him.

 

Over the course of the next two years, he either grew on you, or you thought he sucked. He grew on me. I started to like him. I thought the team looked a LOT better, especially around the Steeler and Raven close call losses. I started to really like him.

 

It still seemed about half and half between the fan base, maybe even 2/3 to 1/3 behind him at certain points. Polls on other sites had his approval rating in the 90s. It was understandable.

 

And then this year, he sucked, the entire year. The team disintegrated, for various reasons, including his selection of Wanny, which most everyone including myself liked at the time but which proved to be a monumental disaster. And over the course of the year, pretty much every non-shill turned on Chan.

 

I don't see the Marrone hire or reaction anything at all like the Gailey hire.

 

This seems pretty accurate to me. I think Gailey's major mistake was hiring Edwards, and then hiring Wanstadt (and I was behind the Wanstadt hire, thinking it would make all the difference. It did. It got Gailey fired.)

Edited January 19, 2013 by Dr. K

[John from Riverside]

First of all....always much respect to you for contributing to the forum

 

that said

 

Every time you post like this I post under the assumption that you know more then I do about what the bills are doing (or in this case have done)

 

Are you saying that Brandon make those picks and not the GM? Because you are calling him the GM. If in fact Brandon had been making past sections I would be EXTREMELY bothered by that because that means that a man who proclaims himself not to be a "football guy" has been making football guy decisions rather then Buddy Nix. If you know more about this I wish you would elaborate.

 

Now...regarding the coaches a couple of things to consider

 

- A lot of people are calling Morrone more of the same.....it really isnt....it really isnt CLOSE to being the same. We have traded in going for retreads in the NFL that have failed somewhere else to going to a fresh young college coach who has yet to lose in the NFL. Its thinking completely outside the box for us and its refreshing. They interviewed several coaches and didnt make the "supposid mistake" that the fans were dreading in Whisenhunt and Lovie Smith (who in turn were not taken by anyone else either as everyone else was looking for fresh as well except for the Chiefs)

 

- Chip Kelly was the prom queen....Morrone was 2nd hottest best friend to many of the teams needing coaches. I applaud the bills that when they realized Kelly was not in the cards for them they acted fast before the browns realized it to and swooped in on Marrone........we didnt get leftovers at HC this year we got a guy that other teams actually WANTED.

 

- Because we sorted out our HC early......we had first pickings on other coaches after that. Pettine was a HUGE win. Are people forgetting that his defenses are consistantly top 10 (currently....not in the past like Wanstaddt) and that he plays a aggressive attacking style of defense.....now do people realize we have been ridiculously bad on defense for TOO MANY consecutive years now? THAT was the area that we really needed to address quickly and address well! And because they didnt turn over every rock when they realized they had found what they needed they didnt give a team like the browns an opportunity to swoop in and take Marrone (who in turn would probably have taken Pettine due to their relationship) on defense the bills showed me the baby.

 

- Then Pettine brought along with him several positional coaches from the good jets defense along with him....keeping continuity there.

 

- On offense Morrone brings in Paul Hacket as his OC. Once again......looking for FRESH here but with NFL experience but I understand the uncertainty. To me this is a hire that says "I have good chemistry with this coach and I need continuity to run my offense" which is not nec a bad thing.

 

- I like positional coaches hirings like Wheatley on offense.....would have liked to see the TE's coach brought back.

 

- The special teams hire is the only one that really gives me pause because he has not had RECENT ST's success.......in fact it was just plain bad recently BUT......if you are going to say Morrone is a good hire then you have to trust him to pick his coaches.....there is SOOO much that factors into good special teams especially the talent on the ST unit......

 

Overall.....show me the baby but I just thank christ we are going to go in a NEW direction and not stick with the insanity of picking another retread coach to accomplish the same retread things.......

 

By the way.....if Nassib somehow ends up on this team we shouldnt be heading up to one bills drive with fire and pitchforks......because he is actuallly a GOOD QB who has pretty much everything we are looking for (strong arm, accurate, tough, fairly mobile)

 

I would prefer it not to be at the 8th pick though.....either trade down or up.

[Coach Tuesday]

First of all....always much respect to you for contributing to the forum

 

that said

 

Every time you post like this I post under the assumption that you know more then I do about what the bills are doing (or in this case have done)

 

Are you saying that Brandon make those picks and not the GM? Because you are calling him the GM. If in fact Brandon had been making past sections I would be EXTREMELY bothered by that because that means that a man who proclaims himself not to be a "football guy" has been making football guy decisions rather then Buddy Nix. If you know more about this I wish you would elaborate.

 

This is what bugs me. If you have something to report, report it. I can't stand these insinuations and suggestions. Especially when they seem to be accompanied by an implicit suggestion, or at least a hint, that us fans are allowing ourselves to be deceived, and if we only knew the real info, we'd be skeptical like you are. Everybody is letting WNYers down - the team, the owner, the politicians, and yes, the media. Cripes.

[MRW]

To me, I have several questions, including whether Mr. Brandon succeeded in his term as the Bills' GM, a time in which the team drafted Leodis McKelvin and Aaron Maybin in the first round.

I want to highlight this line, because I have to ask, why is this a question? I thought everyone, including Brandon, acknowledged that he was not a success as the de facto GM. That's why we now have Nix/Whaley. So I'm left wondering what you mean by this.

[3rdand12]

i would also question some of the "glowing" reports that have come out regarding this hire. Marrone has already called one of those reports false in claiming he made a video presentation to each of the teams he interviewed. i would consider the source(s) of those reports and see whether they might have certain similar ties in regards to representation, and whether it raises any questions in regards to a conflict of interest.

 

jw

I would not suggest conspiracy theory whatsoever. But may i suggest the Process of choosing the next coach(s) began well before Russ took the reins. And that Marrone was already feeling favoritism from Bills on the qt.

This whole thing is looking planned out to me. Marketing sure, doesnt hurt. I think it has been a refreshing enough house cleaning.

Bringing in continuity on both offense and def coaching personel. This method has the feel of "starting over " in the biggest sense of the word. I hope everyone will be patient .

Russ or Nix did say, if i recall correct, " if they found the one they liked they would go for him right then " or something thereabouts.

But you have some valid points in the opening post

[GG]

Let's try reading in between the lines.

 

It's not that Marrone was hired, but how the hiring came about, how the story broke and the glowing press that followed. I alluded to this at the time, but details usually get lost in the euphoria.

 

As of Saturday night, January 5, the rumor mill had Whiz as the leading candidate, with Lovie tentatively second, and a brief blurb that Bills conducted fast track interviews in Arizona with Horton, Marrone & Kelly. Although the timelines were suspect in how & when the interviews were conducted, there wasn't much follo up on this.

 

Suddenly, at 5AM, Schefter "broke" the story that Bills hired Marrone. Now, why would Schefter get the story first? Did Bills & Marrone negotiate all night and did Schefter camp outside the clandestine meetings between the two parties? Did anyone ask or report on how & why the NFL insider got the scoop?

 

Or should we take jw's hints to their logical conclusion? Who is Schefter's agent? Who is Marrone's agent? Which agency has the largest number of clients overlapping athletes, coaches and talking heads? It's a Creative Answer Apparently ...

 

So while I was ok with Marrone's hire, it was a bit unusual to see the an avalanche of adulating press coming out of the woodwork for a relatively obscure hire. But if you looked at the sources of the adulation, it's easy to spot a well-crafted PR message by one of the best agencies in the business. So take what you read with a massive grain of salt. By extension, you should also discount 90% of the sports "news" you hear on ESPN.

[CardinalScotts]

Found the guy hired him...now we'll see

[John from Riverside]

Found the guy hired him...now we'll see

 

Yeah that is pretty much where I am at as well......I am totally show me the baby this offseason after years of being first at the koolaid punchbowl.....

 

but it just never fails to amaze me when I look at fan reaction

 

- We better not hire whizenhunt....he sucs

 

- We better not hire lovie...he sucks

 

- Chip Kelly has no NFL experience....he sucks

 

- Dont hire Horton....he will make us change our defense

 

- God if Morrone drafts Nassib.......then I know its more of the same

 

 

I mean.....really? Was there a right answer for the fans? And now even though Ryan Nassib looked like a good QB in college with all the tools and is getting even better every year if we draft a guy like that then we suck? Really?

[JoeF]

So is this the worst case scenario --

 

First, the Marrone hire inside homer hire that was pre-destined from the moment Chan was fired. It was done partially because of finances and partially because Russ wants to further regionalize the franchise.

 

Second, the Bills are having trouble attracting top notch assistants. Other than Pettine, Crossman, Hillard and Henderson the Bills are left with guys that have never had the role they have now at the pro level and Henderson and Crossman have been fired from the roles they now have by other teams and Hillard's team freely let him go for a lateral promotion. O'Neill and Weaver were both assitants to an assistant.

 

The next logical steps in a further decline of this franchise are:

- Marrone hires an inexperienced coach for O-Line

- Fitz is retained

- Byrd and Levitre are both allowed to leave

- They draft Nassib at 8

 

If all this happens the Bills will surely decline even further into the abyss -- and now with 7 years of new lease -- the non-playoff streak will stretch to 20.

[John from Riverside]

So is this the worst case scenario --

 

First, the Marrone hire inside homer hire that was pre-destined from the moment Chan was fired. It was done partially because of finances and partially because Russ wants to further regionalize the franchise.

 

Second, the Bills are having trouble attracting top notch assistants. Other than Pettine, Crossman, Hillard and Henderson the Bills are left with guys that have never had the role they have now at the pro level and Henderson and Crossman have been fired from the roles they now have by other teams and Hillard's team freely let him go for a lateral promotion. O'Neill and Weaver were both assitants to an assistant.

 

The next logical steps in a further decline of this franchise are:

- Marrone hires an inexperienced coach for O-Line

- Fitz is retained

- Byrd and Levitre are both allowed to leave

- They draft Nassib at 8

 

If all this happens the Bills will surely decline even further into the abyss -- and now with 7 years of new lease -- the non-playoff streak will stretch to 20.

 

Guys who have made it to the level of DC generally make pretty damn good positional coaches Joe.....just saying

 

And speedbumping past Pettine is interesting.......because positional coaches mean a heck of a lot less then a complete steal at HC. we just hired the DC of a team that is known for its defense......consistantly good defense.

 

Sorry all the doom and gloom is just a bit early......there is a lot to like about these hires

[JoeF]

Guys who have made it to the level of DC generally make pretty damn good positional coaches Joe.....just saying

 

And speedbumping past Pettine is interesting.......because positional coaches mean a heck of a lot less then a complete steal at HC. we just hired the DC of a team that is known for its defense......consistantly good defense.

 

Sorry all the doom and gloom is just a bit early......there is a lot to like about these hires

 

Got it John--I wasn't posting what I believe -- I was posting what the worst case was...all in all the worst case isn't that freakin' far from where we are today in reality.

 

So what's the point of the all whole thread? That Russ is incompetent and lying to us -- Newsflash -- we as Bills fans have basically been lied to by management for the last decade plus....starting with the whole Flutie/Johnson thing through TD, Marv, Russ and now Buddy. Yet--I will continue to date our version of Lennay Kekua...because I love the Bills.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JoeF

[jester43]

Why the hell woudl that make any difference in the world? Seriously one of 32 jobs in the NFL and they have to play one home game in Toronto? Thats gonna make them look elsewhere?

 

you gotta be kidding. who would sign up for a disadvantage like that if they had other options?

[KeisterHollow]

All any of us can do at this point in time is cross our fingers and hope it works out. Seriously, this franchise has fallen so far that if this new coaching staff does not produce winning results, does not change the culture and turn the Bills into a legitimate, respected team, how many fans are going to wait out 3 or 4 years of failure, only to hope another savior comes along? What I mean to say is this: I see this hire as the Bills last chance with many fans - because if the same results continue to happen, if the team continually falls short and baffles us with bone-headed decisions, I - and, I suspect, many other fans - will just tune out. As far as I'm concerned, the Bills change their ways now, or I'm done supporting them. I want competence, and I want to see a talented, prepared, competitive team. Nothing short of that will keep me involved from here out.

[Dr. Trooth]

This seems pretty accurate to me. I think Gailey's major mistake was hiring Edwards, and then hiring Wanstadt (and I was behind the Wanstadt hire, thinking it would make all the difference. It did. It got Gailey fired.)

 

The mistake was in hiring Gailey at all. He's an offensive guy all the way and demonstated over the past three seasons he either didn't have much interest or much knowledge of the totality of the game of football, thus that is why he hired incompetent guys like Edwards & Wanny. At least Marrone stated up front he's the head coach and he aint calling the plays. However, he will be in charge of game planning and the offensive, defensive, and special teams strategy will go through him. He'll have the headset on him for defense and offense. Seems to me the guy might be interested in the game as a whole, not just a single phase, as has been the case with the past 5 Bills head coaches. He also isn't married to a partcular scheme of a defensive or an offensive system.... but both will be aggressive and physical and will use the skills of the current players to their and the team's advantage.

[Stevie Ray]

Yeah that is pretty much where I am at as well......I am totally show me the baby this offseason after years of being first at the koolaid punchbowl.....

 

but it just never fails to amaze me when I look at fan reaction

 

- We better not hire whizenhunt....he sucs

 

- We better not hire lovie...he sucks

 

- Chip Kelly has no NFL experience....he sucks

 

- Dont hire Horton....he will make us change our defense

 

- God if Morrone drafts Nassib.......then I know its more of the same

 

 

I mean.....really? Was there a right answer for the fans? And now even though Ryan Nassib looked like a good QB in college with all the tools and is getting even better every year if we draft a guy like that then we suck? Really?

 

Well said John, well said! No matter what choice was made, there would always be a segment that would find something to complain about. And as a previous poster stated, not a single down has been played yet.

[JohnC]

Traveling to Syracuse all the way from Buffalo can be very exhausting!

 

I agree that the selections have been heavily marketed--and it works! Witness how the citizens of TBD have jumped on board for a hire few would have considered, at all, 6 months or a year ago. The choice for OC is especially tough to sell--but guys are buying it. It's like 2010 all over again.

 

I guess it's tough to judge the selection of HC. The choices this year were awful, so maybe it was wise to pick up a local guy (and hype up his "major turnaround" at SU, where he "reintroduced a winning culture"--every other year, anyway...) who is otherwise a complete black box (other than serving as Payton's Modkins for a few years). This way, no one can point to an NFL record of success or failure.

 

It may actually be a master stroke by Russ (this was his pick all the way), who's major forte is marketing (and, by necessity, bullsh**t). Would any other team have picked Marrone? We will never know, but Brandon is content to let the thinking that several other teams had him as number one on their list hang there in the air.

 

Bottom line? Whaddayagonnado? Bad year to be looking for a HC. This is what was out there.

 

I don't understand what issues you have with the selection of Marrone. The hiring process was very compact, yet it was very credible. Isn't that better than the Buddy Nix "seat of the pants" hire of Gailey? If I recall correctly there was no real "selection process" with that particular hire. Most of the candidates that were on the market were interviewed. The Marrone hiring was a reasonable hire. You could lament that the caliber of candidates were not at the high end but that is not something you can control. You make a selection based on what is out there, not what you "wish" was out there.

 

There is no doubt that Brandon's background is in the business and marketing side of sports. But he is not a fool. He is now in a position where the record that is established under his tenure is a record that he owns. He is not going to go out and hire someone primarily for marketing reasons. He is going to hire someone who is going to help him establish a winning record.

 

The issue of Marrone coming from a central NY college program is meaningless. What has meaning from his Syracuse experience is that he brought a college program mired in mediocrity and irrelevance to a program that became very competitive. If you add in the fact that he also had good experience in the pro ranks then it is obvious that his selection made a lot of sense.

Edited January 19, 2013 by JohnC