peterpan Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 The Rooney rule is garbage. It's reverse discrimination. Who cares what color they are? The best candidates will get the jobs. Now they have all black dating sites. What would happen if I started a white only dating site? Complete BS and it's growing old. I agree. I think its hilarious that Obama is catching flack for having an all-white, all-male cabinet in his 2nd term. I mean really? Isn't looking at these people only by the color of their skin and gender 100% racist and sexist? Or can only non-whites and non-males be victims of racism and sexism? White males = the most discriminated against people in America.
26CornerBlitz Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 I agree. I think its hilarious that Obama is catching flack for having an all-white, all-male cabinet in his 2nd term. I mean really? Isn't looking at these people only by the color of their skin and gender 100% racist and sexist? Or can only non-whites and non-males be victims of racism and sexism? White males = the most discriminated against people in America. Most baseless comment I've seen on TSW in quite some time.
BillsVet Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 That was due to a well-documented personality conflict between GM and coach: one of them had to go and the owner had to pick. There was no personality conflict with Lovie Smith. He was simply shown the door because he didn't make the playoffs in a season in which he posted a 10-6 record despite injuries to a number of defensive starters and his starting QB. Such a scenario would never take place if it were a Caucasian coach. Gotta disagree here Dawgg as there's more to the Lovie Smith thing than just this. Chicago obviously has a higher standard and this team was trending in the wrong direction. Sure, Phil Emery probably wanted his own guy in there after he got the job last off-season, but it's worth noting that Lovie could never develop the offense. He went through more coordinators and Emery had to know it wasn't going to get better. From 2004-2012, Smith's offenses were ranked higher than 14th once, and that was the SB season of 2006. Emery is also big on analytics, and he had to have known that's not an outlier, it's a trend. He also talked about OL a little bit here: http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2013/01/phil_emery_provides_tremendous.html
/dev/null Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 In the NFL, it would be a virtual impossibility for a coach of color get a third try after 2 prior failed stints. Would you want to give Art Shell, Dennis Green, or Herm Edwards their third shot at coaching with the Bills?
Dawgg Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Gotta disagree here Dawgg as there's more to the Lovie Smith thing than just this. Chicago obviously has a higher standard and this team was trending in the wrong direction. Sure, Phil Emery probably wanted hisown guy in there after he got the job last off-season, but it's worth noting that Lovie could never develop the offense. He went through more coordinators and Emery had to know it wasn't going to get better. From 2004-2012, Smith's offenses were ranked higher than 14th once, and that was the SB season of 2006. Emery is also big on analytics, and he had to have known that's not an outlier, it's a trend. He also talked about OL a little bit here: http://blogs.suntime...tremendous.html Look -- you can agree or disagree with the Lovie Smith firing. I felt he got a raw deal because any head coach who posts a 10-6 record with that team in those circumstances deserves to return. You feel his failure to develop the offense makes him deserving of a firing. Bottom line: would a Caucasian coach get fired in a similar situation? 10-6 record, missing playoffs numerous team injuries, Top 5 defense? My vote is no. I saw that O-Line explanation from Emery - and while eloquent, it doesn't change the fact that the Bears didn't acquire the necessary talent on the o-line to produce a good offense. He gave long-winded excuses as to why they didn't acquire the talent necessary but it doesn't change the ultimate fact: acquiring o-line talent is the GM's job. Why is Lovie getting fired for it? The operative question is this: had the Packers won their Week 17 matchup against the Vikings allowing the Bears to make the playoffs, would Lovie have gotten fired? No. Emery would never pull the trigger. Ultimately, Emery was looking for an excuse to fire him and managed to have his way. Would you want to give Art Shell, Dennis Green, or Herm Edwards their third shot at coaching with the Bills? I'd rather have Denny Green or Herm Edwards than Norv Turner, that's for sure. But that's just my opinion, which is meaningless. To your point, though, the reason your sample size is so small is that these coaches simply haven't been given similar levels of opportunity. White males = the most discriminated against people in America. Wow. LOL!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for that
4merper4mer Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 plus, what about Tomlin, for example, his team underperformed, so does he get fired too, or does he get a black pass? Under the new rule the Steelers would be free to fire Tomlin but for the league to step in it would have to be a white guy being fired.
stinky finger Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Sure people hire who they are comfortable with, and you could probably identify 1,000 such characteristics that impact interpersonal comfort levels. If we were talking about some redneck business with no black employees, I'd agree with your point. But we're talking about the NFL, where the marketing 'face' of at least half the franchises is a black player, where the owners are spending ~70% of their $120MM payroll on black players, and where the value of each franchise is directly impacted the team's on field performance. Given that, I think it is ludicrous to believe NFL owner/GMs would not be comfortable with a black coach and would not hire the guy he thinks would be the most successful on the field regarding of color. Perhaps I should have said "rich and successful business owners" instead of "all business owners". good volley
Pneumonic Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 This rule is a joke! What's next a rule that makes sure white corners get equal consideration for NFL jobs as do black corners.
stinky finger Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Let me go over this real slow for you, that way you might get it. Tomlin coaches the Steelers and has a Super Bowl ring. The Steelers are owned by the Rooneys. Yes, the same Rooneys after which the "Rooney Rule" is named. They, unlike most teams will set a good example. They also have shown that they don't overreact, black or white. They have had 3 head coaches since 1969. In summary, nice try. The fact that you use the Steelers as an example shows just how clueless you are on the topic They sure did. Lost their QB for a few games and had a top 5 defense. It's not Lovie's fault that the team failed to prioritize the offensive line in the draft, nor it his fault that they lost a number of key players to injury. Bottom line: a similar season wouldn't get a Caucasian coach fired. There is such thing as a can't miss candidate, black or white. Numerous candidates, however, deserve a chance and here are a few: Perry Fewell Keith Armstrong Hue Jackson (had one whole season to prove himself and did pretty well as a HC) Ray Horton Mel Tucker Thanks, captain obvious. Re: Tomlin....read sarcasm much? Re: Lovie.....please, stop with the injury excuse. They started 7-1. Make the freakin' playoffs. Re: Black Coach list.......you're just interested in filling a quota.
PushthePile Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 The Bears were more than happy to have a black head coach lead their team for 9 seasons. Yet they were just itching to fire him because he was black. That had to be so grueling for them.
stinky finger Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) Look -- you can agree or disagree with the Lovie Smith firing. I felt he got a raw deal because any head coach who posts a 10-6 record with that team in those circumstances deserves to return. You feel his failure to develop the offense makes him deserving of a firing. Bottom line: would a Caucasian coach get fired in a similar situation? 10-6 record, missing playoffs numerous team injuries, Top 5 defense? My vote is no. I saw that O-Line explanation from Emery - and while eloquent, it doesn't change the fact that the Bears didn't acquire the necessary talent on the o-line to produce a good offense. He gave long-winded excuses as to why they didn't acquire the talent necessary but it doesn't change the ultimate fact: acquiring o-line talent is the GM's job. Why is Lovie getting fired for it? The operative question is this: had the Packers won their Week 17 matchup against the Vikings allowing the Bears to make the playoffs, would Lovie have gotten fired? No. Emery would never pull the trigger. Ultimately, Emery was looking for an excuse to fire him and managed to have his way. I'd rather have Denny Green or Herm Edwards than Norv Turner, that's for sure. But that's just my opinion, which is meaningless. To your point, though, the reason your sample size is so small is that these coaches simply haven't been given similar levels of opportunity. Wow. LOL!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for that Would I have fired a white coach with the same circumstances as Lovie? ALL.....DAY....LONG. The Bears were more than happy to have a black head coach lead their team for 9 seasons. Yet they were just itching to fire him because he was black. That had to be so grueling for them. exactly. You can't fire a black coach. That's flat out discrimination. Edited January 20, 2013 by billsoverdue
26CornerBlitz Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 This rule is a joke! What's next a rule that makes sure white corners get equal consideration for NFL jobs as do black corners. It's about QUALIFIED candidates not being given a fair hearing. Your example merits zero consideration as it's ridiculous on its face.
Dawgg Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Would I have fired a white coach with the same circumstances as Lovie? ALL.....DAY....LONG. You would. Perhaps I would too. But in the NFL, it JUST... DOESNT... HAPPEN. You can't fire a black coach. That's flat out discrimination. Of course you can! The point is that white coaches generally get more opportunities to succeed (and more opportunities to fail) than their black counterparts. The Bears were more than happy to have a black head coach lead their team for 9 seasons. Yet they were just itching to fire him because he was black. That had to be so grueling for them. Lovie had to produce big-time in order to justify his tenure as head coach, make no mistake about it: - When he took the team to the Super Bowl in 2006, he signed a 5-year extension and it was well-deserved. - In 2010, there was a lot of talk of him being on the hot seat and he responded by taking his team to the championship game. He got a 2 year extension after that. Of course the Bears gave him an opportunity and Lovie produced with that opportunity. On the flip side, how about Gary Kubiak in Houston? His first 5 seasons went as follows: 6-10 8-8 8-8 9-7 6-10 Yet he was given 2 contract extensions during this time, allowing him to continue with the team and has since produced records of 10-6 and 12-4. Not talking about quotas, not advocating reverse discrimination of any kind, just merely suggesting that black coaches don't have as many opportunities to be a head coach and when they are given the opportunity, they generally have a shorter leash, barring a Super Bowl or conference championship appearance.
PushthePile Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 You would. Perhaps I would too. But in the NFL, it JUST... DOESNT... HAPPEN. Of course you can! The point is that white coaches generally get more opportunities to succeed (and more opportunities to fail) than their black counterparts. Lovie Smith had a loaded roster for the majority of his time with the bears. They have also brought in multiple high priced stud free agents. What they got in return was 3 playoff trips out of 9 seasons and 1 out of the last 6. Not good enough if your color is purple orange blue etc. How about MARVIN LEWIS?
Dawgg Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Lovie Smith had a loaded roster for the majority of his time with the bears. They have also brought in multiple high priced stud free agents. What they got in return was 3 playoff trips out of 9 seasons and 1 out of the last 6. Not good enough if your color is purple orange blue etc. How about MARVIN LEWIS? Fair enough. Lovie's firing is a matter of opinion and the reasons you state are valid. I think that the reasons not to fire him are valid too. Marvin Lewis and Tomlin are great examples that other teams ought to follow. The point is that these examples are few and far between. Perhaps part of it is that black coaches have skewed toward the defensive side of the ball and the trend now is to hire offensive coordinators. Ultimately, though, I think guys like Fewell deserve an opportunity and hope that they get it.
PushthePile Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 You would. Perhaps I would too. But in the NFL, it JUST... DOESNT... HAPPEN. Of course you can! The point is that white coaches generally get more opportunities to succeed (and more opportunities to fail) than their black counterparts. Lovie had to produce big-time in order to justify his tenure as head coach, make no mistake about it: - When he took the team to the Super Bowl in 2006, he signed a 5-year extension and it was well-deserved. - In 2010, there was a lot of talk of him being on the hot seat and he responded by taking his team to the championship game. He got a 2 year extension after that. Of course the Bears gave him an opportunity and Lovie produced with that opportunity. On the flip side, how about Gary Kubiak in Houston? His first 5 seasons went as follows: 6-10 8-8 8-8 9-7 6-10 Yet he was given 2 contract extensions during this time, allowing him to continue with the team and has since produced records of 10-6 and 12-4. Not talking about quotas, not advocating reverse discrimination of any kind, just merely suggesting that black coaches don't have as many opportunities to be a head coach and when they are given the opportunity, they generally have a shorter leash, barring a Super Bowl or conference championship appearance. Yeah and Romeo Crennel was 24 and 40 his first four seasons and got a second chance. Sorry man Im just not buying it. I think you are making too many assumptions about people you have never met. Fair enough. Lovie's firing is a matter of opinion and the reasons you state are valid. I think that the reasons not to fire him are valid too. Marvin Lewis and Tomlin are great examples that other teams ought to follow. The point is that these examples are few and far between. Perhaps part of it is that black coaches have skewed toward the defensive side of the ball and the trend now is to hire offensive coordinators. Ultimately, though, I think guys like Fewell deserve an opportunity and hope that they get it. The ironic part was I wanted Lovie Smith here! I think we will see an upward trend continue as more black coordinators move through systems. This offseason was more circumstance in my opinion.
Chilly Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 You would. Perhaps I would too. But in the NFL, it JUST... DOESNT... HAPPEN. Marty Schottenheimer, Coach, San Diego Chargers
Rob's House Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 The point is this: would a Caucasian coach get fired after posting a 10-6 season in which he lost his starting QB for 3 games? My vote is no. Unfortunately for Lovie, he ain't white! I agree. It's just like in Dallas. Chan Gailey would never been fired after taking his team to the playoffs in consecutive years if he were white. oh wait You would. Perhaps I would too. But in the NFL, it JUST... DOESNT... HAPPEN. Of course you can! The point is that white coaches generally get more opportunities to succeed (and more opportunities to fail) than their black counterparts. Lovie had to produce big-time in order to justify his tenure as head coach, make no mistake about it: - When he took the team to the Super Bowl in 2006, he signed a 5-year extension and it was well-deserved. - In 2010, there was a lot of talk of him being on the hot seat and he responded by taking his team to the championship game. He got a 2 year extension after that. Of course the Bears gave him an opportunity and Lovie produced with that opportunity. On the flip side, how about Gary Kubiak in Houston? His first 5 seasons went as follows: 6-10 8-8 8-8 9-7 6-10 Yet he was given 2 contract extensions during this time, allowing him to continue with the team and has since produced records of 10-6 and 12-4. Not talking about quotas, not advocating reverse discrimination of any kind, just merely suggesting that black coaches don't have as many opportunities to be a head coach and when they are given the opportunity, they generally have a shorter leash, barring a Super Bowl or conference championship appearance. This would almost make sense if Gary Kubiak and Lovie Smith had the same employer. But why let a little thing like common sense interfere with some good quality race baiting?
Glory Bound Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Weird...I don't even think about skin color until this idiotic stuff crops up in the news. The Rooney Rule works against the cause, noble as it seems on the surface. I really don't believe any HC, OC, or DC hirings or firings this year had a smidgen to do with skin color. The Rooney Rule needs to be scrapped! Hire the best man (or woman) for cryin out loud, even if he/she is purple with pink polka dots.
Rob's House Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Weird...I don't even think about skin color until this idiotic stuff crops up in the news. The Rooney Rule works against the cause, noble as it seems on the surface. I really don't believe any HC, OC, or DC hirings or firings this year had a smidgen to do with skin color. The Rooney Rule needs to be scrapped! Hire the best man (or woman) for cryin out loud, even if he/she is purple with pink polka dots. Let's not go crazy here. I mean purple I can see, but pink polka dot is where I draw the line.
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