jahnyc Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 i agree with Sullivan that at this point, the Bills do not deserve the benefit of the doubt about much of anything. We will all hope for the best, but this is a very inexperienced staff overall. Many head coaches have gotten a boost from older, experienced coordinators and assistant coaches. Wade Phillips has helped the Texans develop a very strong defense. Same with Lebeau in Pittsburgh. Would Tomlin have the success he has had without Lebeau running the defense? Jauron and Gailey ultimately failed due to their choices of coordinators (Jauron with the offensive coordinators and Gailey with the defensive coordinators). I think experience matters, particularly with coordinators. I also do not understand why Hackett will be the offensive coordinator and the quarterback coach. Doesn't he have enough on his plate as offensive coordinator?
Jim in Anchorage Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 It should/could be pointed out that over the last four years or so, the Pats have had one of the poorer defenses in the league and have been very difficult to beat because they have a great quarterback in Tom Brady. Coaching has much to do with the success of a team but so does a qb. And what is your point? Mike Pettine beat the NE offense, not the defense, and Sullivan gave him positive mark. After reading many Sullivan [seems like hundreds] threads on here I sent him his next column that will satisfy TBD- "19 and 0 baby!"
djp14150 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I agree that some of the hires are questionable... I was hoping for people with more NFL experience coming throw his connections. Many of these hires call into question coaching nepotism. the DC hire was a very good pick the OC I can accept because of genetics. Some of the others...why are you hiring them?
PromoTheRobot Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 i agree with Sullivan that at this point, the Bills do not deserve the benefit of the doubt about much of anything. We will all hope for the best, but this is a very inexperienced staff overall. Many head coaches have gotten a boost from older, experienced coordinators and assistant coaches. Wade Phillips has helped the Texans develop a very strong defense. Same with Lebeau in Pittsburgh. Would Tomlin have the success he has had without Lebeau running the defense? Jauron and Gailey ultimately failed due to their choices of coordinators (Jauron with the offensive coordinators and Gailey with the defensive coordinators). I think experience matters, particularly with coordinators. I also do not understand why Hackett will be the offensive coordinator and the quarterback coach. Doesn't he have enough on his plate as offensive coordinator? That is a very healthy attitude...expect failure, even when people and things change because, you know...it's the Bills. PTR
jahnyc Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Sorry, but after 13 years of not making the playoffs and only one season with a winning record during this period, this is where we are. I will be excited to watch the Bills in 2013 (just like in every past season), but my expectations are low. I do not think this is unreasonable or particularly negative in light of past experience.
Punch Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Sorry, but after 13 years of not making the playoffs and only one season with a winning record during this period, this is where we are. I will be excited to watch the Bills in 2013 (just like in every past season), but my expectations are low. I do not think this is unreasonable or particularly negative in light of past experience. This stance is not unreasonable, but a columnist should have a slightly more educated and less invested opinion than do fans. Sully is either all in toward a negative stance (70% of the time) or all in on some wistful emotionally charged take (as when he bet Jeremy White he'd run down Hertel Ave. in his underwear if Fitz didn't get 30 TD passes). Jumping to completely opposite ends of the spectrum as a gut reaction is easy and requires little writing skill and even less thought. Worse than that, it's boring.
BuffBill Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Sorry, but after 13 years of not making the playoffs and only one season with a winning record during this period, this is where we are. I will be excited to watch the Bills in 2013 (just like in every past season), but my expectations are low. I do not think this is unreasonable or particularly negative in light of past experience. To be honest, I was in that mindset this past season, and it is 100% understandable, for fans like us that pour our heart into this team to be disappointed for decades. I agree with another poster also, that this team doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. They have had that for how many GM changes, Coaching changes, player changes, etc. but no change in the outcome of the season. Like you, I will be as excited as ever, watch every single snap, waste my money on Sunday Ticket just to watch the Bills,but I don't expect much. This staff doesn't excite me, the only thing he hasn't done was hire the Syracuse ball girl and move training camp to Syracuse. Might be different if Syracuse was coming off of a string of great seasons, or Championships, but it was a .500 team under him in one of the weakest, if not the weakest conference in the country. Edited January 18, 2013 by BuffBill
thebandit27 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 To be honest, I was in that mindset this past season, and it is 100% understandable, for fans like us that pour our heart into this team to be disappointed for decades. I agree with another poster also, that this team doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. They have had that for how many GM changes, Coaching changes, player changes, etc. but no change in the outcome of the season. Like you, I will be as excited as ever, watch every single snap, waste my money on Sunday Ticket just to watch the Bills,but I don't expect much. This staff doesn't excite me, the only thing he hasn't done was hire the Syracuse ball girl and move training camp to Syracuse. Might be different if Syracuse was coming off of a string of great seasons, or Championships, but it was a .500 team under him in one of the weakest, if not the weakest conference in the country. To be fair, he hired an OC from Syracuse, as well as his RB coach and TE coach. Three of the other guys were a Special Teams Assistant, an Offensive QC Assistant, and a S&C Assistant...not exactly major roles. The remaining Syracuse coach he hired was Donnie Henderson, who was a pretty successful DC with the Jets for a few years...pretty solid choice. To be honest, the Syracuse-cronyism point is a bit overplayed if you ask me (and nobody did). It basically comes down to the fact that he hired an OC that knew his offense and 2 offensive assitants with whom he was familiar. The rest of the guys he hired are NFL assistants or college guys that were given very minor roles. Just my 1 cent.
eball Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 This stance is not unreasonable, but a columnist should have a slightly more educated and less invested opinion than do fans. Sully is either all in toward a negative stance (70% of the time) or all in on some wistful emotionally charged take (as when he bet Jeremy White he'd run down Hertel Ave. in his underwear if Fitz didn't get 30 TD passes). Jumping to completely opposite ends of the spectrum as a gut reaction is easy and requires little writing skill and even less thought. Worse than that, it's boring. Well said. And with hockey season back, we'll soon get to read how little Jerry knows about that sport as well.
JM57 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Well said. And with hockey season back, we'll soon get to read how little Jerry knows about that sport as well. His Ryan Miller is a whiny baby, Lindy Ruff and Darcy Regier are stale and clueless, and Jochen Hecht was a mistake columns are already saved as a draft on his PC. Just have to put in dates and specific game examples in where the placeholders are.
BringBackFergy Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 http://www.buffalone...ills-drive-1003 I know often members of this board have strongly disagreed with Jerry Sullivan. I have certainly been no stranger in this crowd. However, with this piece I agree with him. The selection of assistant coaches is puzzling and in many respects just ugly. The proof will ultimately come in wins or losses but on paper the bunch does not inspire fear in the hearts of other teams. I am actually a bit surprised Marrone is not being called out on this issue more broadly. We got slaughtered defensively...so the D.C. choice was perfect. Offensively - we need a new start, a simplified system where rookies and vets alike can learn the system quickly but execute the plays to perfection. He has a mix of NFL experience and guys he has worked with in the past. I will withhold judgment. Special Teams....ouch
Punch Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Well said. And with hockey season back, we'll soon get to read how little Jerry knows about that sport as well. His recent column about Grigorenko was atrocious. The assessments he made on Grigorenko are completely unfounded because he admittedly hasn't actually seen him play. It was merely a collection of cliches that could be true of any talented young hockey prospect. He hedged his bets so he can refer to this column if Ruff/Regier send Mikhail back to Quebec or if he is kept in Buffalo and produces. Sad and predictable.
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) To be honest, I was in that mindset this past season, and it is 100% understandable, for fans like us that pour our heart into this team to be disappointed for decades. I agree with another poster also, that this team doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt anymore. They have had that for how many GM changes, Coaching changes, player changes, etc. but no change in the outcome of the season. Like you, I will be as excited as ever, watch every single snap, waste my money on Sunday Ticket just to watch the Bills,but I don't expect much. This staff doesn't excite me, the only thing he hasn't done was hire the Syracuse ball girl and move training camp to Syracuse. Might be different if Syracuse was coming off of a string of great seasons, or Championships, but it was a .500 team under him in one of the weakest, if not the weakest conference in the country. That is what I keep going back to. So many people claim that Marrone "turned Syracuse around". Call me a cynic, but I don't consider 25-25 in the Big East much of an accomplishment. They were 5-7 LAST SEASON. This was a terrible hire. If you can't come to grips with it now, you will in 3 years. Edited January 18, 2013 by BLZFAN4LIFE
Punch Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 That is what I keep going back to. So many people claim that Marrone "turned Syracuse around". Call me a cynic, but I don't consider 25-25 in the Big East much of an accomplishment. They were 5-7 LAST SEASON. This was a terrible hire. If you can't come to grips with it now, you will in 3 years. .500 over 4 years is not terribly impressive until you take into consideration the fact that the same football program was 27 games under .500 the previous 4 seasons. How many top notch recruits do you suppose were playing for Marrone if they were recruited during that 10-37 stretch?
BLZFAN4LIFE Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 .500 over 4 years is not terribly impressive until you take into consideration the fact that the same football program was 27 games under .500 the previous 4 seasons. How many top notch recruits do you suppose were playing for Marrone if they were recruited during that 10-37 stretch? No matter how you break it down, the guy still didn't even produce a winning career record in college. Why would anyone think he will be capable of beating Belichick? Chip Kelly was 46-7. That's the kind of record that I would hang my hat on.
eball Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 His recent column about Grigorenko was atrocious. The assessments he made on Grigorenko are completely unfounded because he admittedly hasn't actually seen him play. It was merely a collection of cliches that could be true of any talented young hockey prospect. He hedged his bets so he can refer to this column if Ruff/Regier send Mikhail back to Quebec or if he is kept in Buffalo and produces. Sad and predictable. It's really a shame, because I have no problem whatsoever with a reporter being critical, or asking tough questions. It's when they so clearly are simply grinding an axe that it becomes tiresome. Lazy, really. Come up with a decent original thought once in a while.
xsoldier54 Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 A. I can't believe there are any "glass half full" Bills fans remaining, and B. I can't believe that not even the hiring of Danny Crossman would give said fans a reason to question OBD about anything. I just find it interesting that when someone questions a OBD decision, they are viewed as just being negative. That might be true if one were questioning someone in Foxboro. But the Bills have occupied the basement for over 10 YEARS!!! Amazing. Nothing wrong with questioning. It is the predicted outcome that I have issue with. If you don't like the hires, then I am fine with that if you state your reasons. Predicting failure, however is taking it too far. Truth is that none of us knows how this staff will perform and what kind of success they will have. One thing we can agree on I believe is that change was needed. Gailey was not going to have any different results in the future than what he has had the past three years. I am onboard for the changes and hopeful for success.
Punch Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 No matter how you break it down, the guy still didn't even produce a winning career record in college. Why would anyone think he will be capable of beating Belichick? Chip Kelly was 46-7. That's the kind of record that I would hang my hat on. There's really no way to respond to this when you say "no matter how you break it down". That's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "Lalalalalalalala". Chip Kelly was my first choice, however, Oregon's previous 4 seasons weren't much different than the 4 years under Kelly: They were incredibly successful, and the program continued to recruit at a very high level. Syracuse was an absolute tire fire under Greg Robinson. Every critical observer of the Syracuse Football Program is convinced that Marrone's tenure be deemed a success based on where they were when he got there and the recruiting classes and resources he had to work with. If he stayed there, the expectation was that the program would continue to improve and return to prominence. I didn't want Kelly because he had a sparkling W-L record--- I wanted him because he was an innovative progressive mind that could (potentially) take the game to a higher level. Marrone may or may not turn out to be a good head coach in the NFL, but his track record with the Orange speaks in his favor not against it. It's really a shame, because I have no problem whatsoever with a reporter being critical, or asking tough questions. It's when they so clearly are simply grinding an axe that it becomes tiresome. Lazy, really. Come up with a decent original thought once in a while. That's true. Personally, when I have critical observations about the Bills or Sabres it can be cathartic to read a well written piece of a like mind. But the regurgitated axe grinding is exhausting. For my money, Mike Harrington is even worse. He's not only clueless about hockey and fottball, he's constantly petulant. Today's Sabre's Edge blog is just embarrassing how he proudly recounts how he inserts himself into the center of a postgame press conference like a junior high kid that got detention for defying the teacher by throwing spitballs in class. He's actually "celebrating" the one-year anniversary of an unprofessional incident.
Cmscully Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Bruce DeHaven. Alan Lowery. Is there info that they wanted to come here?
Homey D. Clown Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 I haven't wasted my life reading his amateurish useless hack articles in more than a year, but it appears he is doubting Marrone's staff selections. I have one simple reply to all the doubt about young guys coming in to do a job for the first time in their lives. Bill Walsh and all his assistants had to come from somewhere in the late 70s, and by all accounts started their careers in quite the same fashion as Marrone's staff. So, does it really matter if a guy has been coaching in the league for a long time? not really. Mike martz, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Norv Turner, Steve Mariucci, Joe Gibbs 2.0, and the list goes on have all been flops. Anyone with a brain could tell you that you could add Bill Bellicheat to the list if he didn't stumble upon Tom Brady. This decision is completely new for the Bills franchise, so, if anything, let's see what they can do, it couldn't possibly be worse than 13 years of crap.
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