Dibs Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Are you? Teo isn't in court right now. There are no prosecutors and no jury. Presumption of innocence is not just a philosophy that US courts follow, it's a way of life. Outside of a bizarre story, there's nothing firm against Teo at this point. I was not being obtuse in any way. You are making the same mistake that Joe6pack made. "Presumption of innocence" is not what you are implying. I will endeavour to explain it in a clearer way for you than I did a few posts back to Joe.... In a system where there is a "presumption of innocence", if somebody is arrested for a crime.....and it cannot be proven that they are guilty....they are presumed innocent and charges are dropped. In a system where there isn't a "presumption of innocence", if somebody is arrested for a crime....and it cannot be proven that they are innocent.....they are presumed guilty and convicted. When the police investigate a suspect to a crime, they thoroughly investigate the suspect(including phone records if necessary) to help determine if there is a case against the person. They do not simply presume the suspect to be innocent & take them at their word and leave it. Here is a hypothetical for you.....and I stipulate in advance that it is a hypothetical situation & is NOT about MT. Person "A" enlists the help of person "B" to lie to and manipulate the media/public in order to raise their media profile....for the purposes of obtaining greater sponsorship deals in the future. The lie is discovered by the media. Person "A" says that he had nothing to do with it and was fooled by person "B". Should the media assume that person "A" is innocent and give up on trying to discover if he is complicit in the hoax?
truth on hold Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) The people who think manti was "in on it" are fading fast with everything that's come out since the story broke. Sure there are some paranoid kooks out there or those with an agenda because they don't like him as a football player, don't like ND, or just simply are envious of high profile people and like to see them taken down. They will always be out there and there's nothing that can be done to satisfy them, because they're dug in. The media has for the most part moved off of teo and rightfully onto ranaiah. If you want to believe a) manti is lying and was in on it and owes you "proof" otherwise, b) ND is covering up for him, c) this JR guy who came forward saying renaiah pulled the same stunt on him is lying, d) former miss Hawaii is lying too like JR, e) the woman whose images were stolen and directly confronted renaiah about it before the manti story broke is lying, that f) renaiah going underground while his preacher father is they need to find faith in God at this time is inconsistent with someone's guilty, and g) manti's uncle is lying and exposing himself to slander suits with what he's said about renaiah is lying, among g) several other diclosures that have come out corroborating manti's story ... you may have issues comparable to renaiah. Edited January 22, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack
Saint Doug Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 The people who think manti was "in on it" are fading fast with everything that's come out since the story broke. But what has come out? Manti may very well be innocent in all this, but no hard facts have really been confirmed. The only thing we have is Manti's side of the story, which we pretty much had since this story broke. According to Deadspin, that "friend" who said Ronaiah admitted to the hoax also said they thought Manti was in on it too. So, who knows?
truth on hold Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) But what has come out? Manti may very well be innocent in all this, but no hard facts have really been confirmed. The only thing we have is Manti's side of the story, which we pretty much had since this story broke. According to Deadspin, that "friend" who said Ronaiah admitted to the hoax also said they thought Manti was in on it too. So, who knows? If youre saying its time to hear from renaiah, I totally agree with you. Been saying that since the manti ESPN interview. I'm satisfied hes not "in on it." The manti character in this story is no longer of interest to me. I want to find out what possessed renaiah to pull this hoax multiple times. Edited January 22, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack
Gugny Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Sure there is. He's an idiot. He embellished the 'story' and continued to after he learned that her death as well as her persona was fake. If you care to debate that have at it, but those are facts. Amen. I believe with every ounce of my being that he was in on this hoax. Even if not from day one, for the majority of it. And if he honestly had no idea (which is just a ridiculous notion), then he is so utterly stupid, why would any GM take a chance on such an idiot. If it turns out that he's just that dumb, I will feel sorry for him. Otherwise, he's just an opportunistic, shady, selfish, arrogant, vain, lying s.o.b. Which is what I'm leaning toward.
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 But what has come out? Manti may very well be innocent in all this, but no hard facts have really been confirmed. The only thing we have is Manti's side of the story, which we pretty much had since this story broke. According to Deadspin, that "friend" who said Ronaiah admitted to the hoax also said they thought Manti was in on it too. So, who knows? The cousin that recognized ronaiahs fake name saying "I'm like 80% sure he had to have known, I mean how could he not?" Is pretty well the equivalent of posters here saying the same. It was based in the idea that no one could get fooled, not anything specific he knew... Amen. I believe with every ounce of my being that he was in on this hoax. Even if not from day one, for the majority of it. And if he honestly had no idea (which is just a ridiculous notion), then he is so utterly stupid, why would any GM take a chance on such an idiot. If it turns out that he's just that dumb, I will feel sorry for him. Otherwise, he's just an opportunistic, shady, selfish, arrogant, vain, lying s.o.b. Which is what I'm leaning toward. People keep saying he was in on it..... What dies that even mean to you? What is your likely timeline and explanation for the events?
JohnC Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 The cousin that recognized ronaiahs fake name saying "I'm like 80% sure he had to have known, I mean how could he not?" Is pretty well the equivalent of posters here saying the same. It was based in the idea that no one could get fooled, not anything specific he knew... People keep saying he was in on it..... What dies that even mean to you? What is your likely timeline and explanation for the events? I've come to the conclusion that Teo was not in on this hoax. I believe that when he belatedly figured it out he felt boxed in and didn't know how to get out of this widely publicized drama. From the way this absurd manipulation was carried on I've also come to the conclusion that Teo is not too bright and that his social skills are very limited. Teo was very fortunate that he did not win the Heisman award. If he would have the tipping point for his selection would have been the bogus "girlfriend" narrative. Can you imagine how much more furor there would have been when this scam was exposed?
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 If teo is that gullable , can you imagine him on a play action pass???
truth on hold Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 (edited) I've come to the conclusion that Teo was not in on this hoax. I believe that when he belatedly figured it out he felt boxed in and didn't know how to get out of this widely publicized drama. From the way this absurd manipulation was carried on I've also come to the conclusion that Teo is not too bright and that his social skills are very limited. Teo was very fortunate that he did not win the Heisman award. If he would have the tipping point for his selection would have been the bogus "girlfriend" narrative. Can you imagine how much more furor there would have been when this scam was exposed? Ya think you have to be stupid to get deceived by: - introduction is made by friend of family - woman's voice on cell phone - multiple pictures sent. With that I can't believe anyone doesn't initially go along. I've been introduced to women by a mutual friend giving me a phone number and we chat a few times before meeting. Then at some point he does become suspicious when they Skype and she always claims its working on her end and problem must be his PC. At this point he asks his cousin in CA if she's real. He erroneously says she is. Lot of people would hang in there at this point , especially if its someone they feel a connection to. Then she dies and he's given a real address to send flowers to. No return to sender comes back because renaiah is on the other end receiving. No red flags there. He thinks its over. Then he gets a call in December from the supposedly deceased lennay. Fishy story about drug dealers after her. At this point hes had enough and brings it to schools attention. I bet most people follow a similar pattern. "Stupid" would have been buying into after the resurrection call. So all those who keep saying he fell for it are actually wrong anyway. That was only for a finite length of time. He was the one who became suspicious to the point of reporting it. Just like JR. Miss Hawaii? She didn't realize shed been catfished until after the manti story broke. I don't see anything indicative of "stupid" on his part. Guy was a victim plain and simple to a hoax most people would have bought into for a similar length of time. Edited January 22, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I guess Manti doesn't have a Richard: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2178297/What-Harry-told-Sally-right-Why-man-just-friends-woman--attraction-gets-way.html Like duh... No friggan' way!
Beerball Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 People keep saying he was in on it..... What dies that even mean to you? What is your likely timeline and explanation for the events? Can't speak for Mr. Newtons, but for myself...he receives a call from his dead GF on 12/6. On 12/8 and beyond he is extolling her virtues in interviews, talking about their relationship, how deep it was crapcetera crapcetera crapcetera. Why did he not deflect any questions that came his way? Why continue and expand the legend of the legendary non-girlfriend? Those are facts. How do you explain them? (please don't start with "confused young man")
JohnC Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 I don't see anything indicative of "stupid" on his part. Guy was a victim plain and simple to a hoax most people would have bought into for a similar length of time. How long did this hoax go on for? Stupid might be an unfair description. Enormously naive might be a fairer description. Go back and re-read my post. I said he was the victim, not participant. In my opinion I believe most people would have caught on much sooner to this cruel hoax than he did.
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 Can't speak for Mr. Newtons, but for myself...he receives a call from his dead GF on 12/6. On 12/8 and beyond he is extolling her virtues in interviews, talking about their relationship, how deep it was crapcetera crapcetera crapcetera. Why did he not deflect any questions that came his way? Why continue and expand the legend of the legendary non-girlfriend? Those are facts. How do you explain them? (please don't start with "confused young man") i think its a simple explanation - I dont think he went on and on and on - in fact that there are so few instances of him talking about it during the awards season (a huge number of scheduled interviews that are bound to ask questions about it) and the BCSCG (again, a huge number of interviews that will be asking him about how things went down that year)..... I think he did deflect quite a bit of it at that point. I think 99% of people would not run to the press 2 days after receiving that call and announce that they got it. He still didnt know what was going on, who was behind it.... further, to him, it probably still felt like a really deep relationship. assuming he wasnt in on it - it was all real experiences to him. i can hardly count him 2 days later saying in an interview that he didnt like cancer because it took his grandparents and girlfriend as "in on it." perhaps we just have widely different standards for what "in on it" would look like.
Gugny Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 People keep saying he was in on it..... What dies that even mean to you? What is your likely timeline and explanation for the events? In on it = he knew it was fake and he kept it going. Plain and simple. He loved the attention too much to put an end to it.
NoSaint Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 In on it = he knew it was fake and he kept it going. Plain and simple. He loved the attention too much to put an end to it. at what point do you think that happened though? kind of an important factor in your claim.
papazoid Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 this could still go either way..... but if your part of the "he wasn't in on it" crowd.....it's very possible that on dec 6th when his dead girlfriend called him....he realized he was being played....but, continued to go along publicly, in hopes of figuring out who was behind this hoax.....
Gugny Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 at what point do you think that happened though? kind of an important factor in your claim. I can't even theorize as to a particular date that he knew he was being hoaxed. I can say this ... it is impractical to believe - even for a second - that someone would have a phone/email relationship with someone for 3 years without meeting that person. Three years as a star player for Notre Dame, and you choose to have an online love affair? No. It simply doesn't add up. There is no way on earth anyone is that naive .. or even that stupid .. to fall for this for 3 years. Manti T'e"o''' is one of three things: 1 - An idiot 2 - A whacko 3 - A con man As this relates to the Bills, I just hope they don't take a chance on him ... at any point in the draft.
Saint Doug Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 The cousin that recognized ronaiahs fake name saying "I'm like 80% sure he had to have known, I mean how could he not?" Is pretty well the equivalent of posters here saying the same. It was based in the idea that no one could get fooled, not anything specific he knew... If you know of a fact, but have a slight doubt, do you ever say "80%"? No, you say things like "I'm 99% of this fact". Saying 80% basically is basically giving an opinion, much like yours or mine.
syhuang Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 There are still too many possible scenarios in this whole mess, for example (1) Te'o didn't start the hoax, never knew about it the whole time, didn't embellish his relationship of his "girlfriend" to get publicity (2) Te'o didn't start the hoax, never knew about it the whole time, but embellished his relationship of his "girlfried" to get publicity (3) Te'o didn't start the hoax, but knew it early and embellished his relationship of his "girlfried" to get publicity (4) Te'o started the hoax and used it to get publicity Now, from Te'o's side of story, he "probably" didn't start the hoax, but he never showed anything to remove the doubts about him embellishing the relatinoship to get publicity. In fact, there are reports saying he wasn't that close to his "Lennay" and just used "her death" to get publicitgy. However, people defending Te'o are quickly to toss the whole thing away and claiming nothing to be seen here. When others have any more questions about him, they are called Te'o haters trying to trash a young man like Te'o. There are many things still needed to be answered for public to form their opinion on Te'o, maybe Te'o doesn't care, maybe Te'o doesn't have the evidents like 8-hour nightly call, maybe Te'o just thinks he doesn't need to prove anything anymore. But the bottom line is there are still questions and Te'o defenders are way too early to anounce his innocent. Personally I don't care if Te'o started the hoax or not, what I care is whether he used death by cancer to get publicity no matter he started the hoax or he embellished the relationship. When you have famility members suffering and fighting cancers, you wouldn't be able to support Te'o until he clears his name on whether he used cancer and death for publicity in any way.
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 22, 2013 Posted January 22, 2013 this could still go either way..... but if your part of the "he wasn't in on it" crowd.....it's very possible that on dec 6th when his dead girlfriend called him....he realized he was being played....but, continued to go along publicly, in hopes of figuring out who was behind this hoax..... Why December 6th?
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