JPS Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I agree with those who say this FIRE has to come from coaching. I tend to agree, also, that you want to bring in the rookies and free agents who have always given it everything - not for the fame or glory, but because they strove to be the best that they could be. Intelligence has a lot to do with it, too. Coachability. But, I think the greatest element critical to this "FIRE" is coaching. Look at the coaches in the final four: the brothers Harbaugh, Bellicheck, and the Atlanta coach. You need a coach who ABSOLUTELY DEMANDS that his players perform at THEIR highest level - and if they don't, regardless of who they are or how much they get paid - they're goners. Once it is known throughout a locker room that EVERY player must give it his all, then slackers disappear quickly. The coaches must also be this way, to a higher degree, and make sure their preparations are good enough to give their team an edge. In regard to the players knowing that they are all in it together and must give it everything - imagine what it did to the Bills locker room this past season when Mario Williams was brought in and given priveleges like refrigerators, his choice of music, etc. (all stuff I read about towards the beginning of the season), and then add to that his enormous salary, and then he goes out on the field and looks to be giving it a half hearted go for the first half of the season, and at times afterward. The way the Bills treated him was a mistake, and I'll bet it screwed up the locker room's cromraderie. I guess you never saw Tom Landry or Chuck Knoll patrol the sidelines. The rah-rah stuff is fun to see, but probably overhyped. Belichick has Tom Brady on the field who will not accept failure. That's what I want. Not someone who gives us the canned speech after the loss. But someone who rips people right there on the spot. I'd rather it be a good player than a coach.
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I guess you never saw Tom Landry or Chuck Knoll patrol the sidelines. The rah-rah stuff is fun to see, but probably overhyped. Belichick has Tom Brady on the field who will not accept failure. That's what I want. Not someone who gives us the canned speech after the loss. But someone who rips people right there on the spot. I'd rather it be a good player than a coach. I agree 100%. All that BS is such show. The Bucs HATED Gruden and he lost that team. How would posters here feel if their boss was screaming at them? Now imagine you are a millionaire who could snap your boss in half (not Marrone though). The screaming BS is a gimmick.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Hmmm, I seem to recall a recent player who had that fire in his belly. Tried to motivate his teamates with his play and talk. Fans here ran him out of town and now he is playing in the NFC Championship game. Just sayin I seriously had no idea who you were talking about. Even when Whitner's name was later mentioned in this thread, it still took some time to put it together. That is probably because nothing exemplifies the failure of the Bills over the last decade more so than Donte Whitner. In fact, even on an incredible 49ers defense, all you see is Whitner flying to the ball 3 seconds after the play, getting burned by TE's, and making zero plays.
dogman Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I think there is a such a long period of failure and malaise that they might not even know what 100% feels like.
eball Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Thankfully, if what I've seen so far is any indication, our new HC will provide plenty of fire at the top.
KeisterHollow Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I guess you never saw Tom Landry or Chuck Knoll patrol the sidelines. The rah-rah stuff is fun to see, but probably overhyped. Belichick has Tom Brady on the field who will not accept failure. That's what I want. Not someone who gives us the canned speech after the loss. But someone who rips people right there on the spot. I'd rather it be a good player than a coach. I think you might have mistaken my meaning. I don't mean what a coach looks like on the sideline - screaming, shouting, getting angry. I mean - if a player isn't giving it his all, and studying and being accountable, then a coach can let it continue or not. If a coach benches, drops, or put players like that on notice, then the whole team will soon understand they can't just cruise. Sure, an on field presence like Ray Lewis, or Brady, makes it easier - we need leaders on the field, too. But, the coaching staff has to take the lead.
JPS Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I think you might have mistaken my meaning. I don't mean what a coach looks like on the sideline - screaming, shouting, getting angry. I mean - if a player isn't giving it his all, and studying and being accountable, then a coach can let it continue or not. If a coach benches, drops, or put players like that on notice, then the whole team will soon understand they can't just cruise. Sure, an on field presence like Ray Lewis, or Brady, makes it easier - we need leaders on the field, too. But, the coaching staff has to take the lead. Ahh. Got it.
gomper Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Like any successful business, it all starts at the top and then runs through every level of the organization. A sound plan is put into place, quality people are hired and then trusted to do their jobs. The model is tweaked and upgraded over time to adjust to the changing landscape. It's all about the culture created from the top. It's an attitude and a shared vision. I know everyone hates the Pats but you must respect the fact that they do not accept losing, ever. We've all seen the Bills play not to lose for years and all that attitude does is get you beat.
SouthernMan Posted January 16, 2013 Author Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I guess you never saw Tom Landry or Chuck Knoll patrol the sidelines. The rah-rah stuff is fun to see, but probably overhyped. Belichick has Tom Brady on the field who will not accept failure. That's what I want. Not someone who gives us the canned speech after the loss. But someone who rips people right there on the spot. I'd rather it be a good player than a coach. Agree. There are some coaches that are animated (think Bill Cowher) and it may be an asset, or others like a Landry or even Belichick who don't wear their heart on their sleeves. Coaches or players? Kind of a chicken-egg question, since a coach often hand picks players who may have a temperment more akin to their own. I don't know. But ultimately, it's the players who are on the field making or not making the plays. One of the follow-up posters suggested the coaches have to fire up the players. Couldn't disagree more. The coaches job is to prepare them for the game, not be a cheerleader. At this level of competition, the players should be self-motivated. This ain't Pop Warner. And to reach back to my original sentiment, I don't think it's an attributed trait that can be brought out by a coach. Not saying there can't be motivational speeches by the coach or teammates in the locker room that bond them and temporarily give them an adreniline rush, but in my opinion, the "I absolutley f-ing hate losing" mentality is a character trait that you're pretty much born with and is apparent through childhood games into adulthood. A recent series on The History Channel (I think) called The Men Who Built America profiled America's wealthiest industrialist entrepreneurs beginning in the 19th century: Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Ford.... fascinating viewing if you're into history. You know what their one commonality was? Super competativeness. Their impact on the marketplace as innovators and industrialists, and the resulting wealth and power that came along with it were motivated by their intense ego-driven desire to be top dog as both the richest and most influential (powerful) man in America. It still goes on today with the likes or Forbes and Trump. Belichick and Brady are meant for each other, as they both have that winning temperment. Meanwhile the Bills seem to think they can compete on the same battlefield with the likes of Williams/Losman,Jauron/Edwards, Gailey/Fitzpatrick, et al. Time to take stock One Bills Drive and bring not the most cerebral, most athletic, or highest score on the Wonderlic. You need competitors - an entire team of them to share the load - not just one or two figureheads. The Patriots don't have players that are that much better than The Bills* - they just have 100% of their players giving 100% of themselves for every second of every game. That's the culture the Patriots have manifested. Once that culture is established, it feeds and perpetuates itself by being attractive to the best free agents who help continue the tradition alongside decent draft picks. Give me a somewhat above average talented team made up of "winners" and I'll kick the asses of a group of NFL Indy combine standouts who don't live and bleed for football and their team 365 days a year. Once you have a majority of players like that, they hold accountable those who don't share their vision and intensity. Those without are replaced. *Brady excepted Edited January 16, 2013 by SouthernMan
mattsox Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 After watching this year's playoff teams and reading the Tom Brady thread, it had me once again thinking about what it is that make the Bills perrenial losers. I truly believe they have the raw talent on the team to be a lot more competative, but more than anything else, in general, I think they lack that fire in their belly that defines the difference between champs and chumps. I watch these playoff teams and look at the players' body language and the look in their eyes on the sidelines. These are guys who absolutely hate to lose. I'm sure their hefty paychecks are a nice bonus, but don't think that's what drives these kinds of players. The Bills haven't had a team that exemplifies that competative spirit in years. At the risk of starting a Flutie/Johnson debate (please don't), the one trait that divided those two in my opinion and observation, was that Flutie seemed more adverse to losing. Ego? Probably, but so what? Ego has been a great motivator throughout history. The Bills rosters from their glory years were filled with players who had oversized egos. Marv's greatest asset as a coach wasn't in his genius with x's and o's, but in his ability to keep this group of egomaniacs working towards a common goal. This is just my opinion obviously, but I really don't think the Bills have enough players who are driven enough. If asked, of course they'd say they want to win. Who doesn't? But how badly? To what degree? In their search for new roster positions, I hope the personnel people put a good deal of emphasis on the psyche of their prospects, and find the right combination of talent and ego that it takes to be champions at this level. I don't care if they are world class A-holes. There's never been astrisk in the records books or on the Lombardi Trophy that noted that character trait. Bottom line - the Bills need their A-holes on the field and not in the offices at One Bills Drive where they've presided for more than a decade. :-) I agree. We need better leadership and guys with even more fire and brimstone. We have no Killer instinct on this team.
gomper Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I just read this on SI.com about Sterling Moore and his pass breakup on Lee Evans in last Years AFC Championship. I think it relates to this thread. Moore's play, to many, was the quintessential example of the Patriots way of playing. You play until the whistle, until the play is over, you never give up on a play, and you don't take anything for granted. "Honestly, it might sound cliche', but they teach it that way in New England,'' Moore said. "It's never stop hustling, just do the little things, and play to the whistle. We had a drill that we used to do at the end of practice with the receivers where we were just literally playing their hands. We don't look back for the ball as a DB, it's just when their hands go up we try to break through their hands. And that's what came up late in that game, with the game and the season on the line. For me, it was the only time throughout the season that situation came up. That moment was the only chance I had to do that all season.'' Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130116/nfl-playoffs-ravens-patriots-sterling-moore/#ixzz2IAqut2BC
Fezmid Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I seriously had no idea who you were talking about. Even when Whitner's name was later mentioned in this thread, it still took some time to put it together. That is probably because nothing exemplifies the failure of the Bills over the last decade more so than Donte Whitner. In fact, even on an incredible 49ers defense, all you see is Whitner flying to the ball 3 seconds after the play, getting burned by TE's, and making zero plays. Yeah, he did nothing but get voted to the Pro Bowl (albeit as an alternate). He sucks. http://www.49ers.com...a9-78884e17b39f
eball Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 This is all just "changing the culture of the organization" 101. It's not rocket science. You need to hand pick your leaders -- leaders who will soldier the cause of the organization. Those who don't follow will be left behind. It's the same thing that happens on the Ravens' defense because of guys like Lewis and Reed. For what it's worth, this is exactly what I see out of Marrone. When he talks about only wanting coaches who will "bleed Bills blue" this is what he's trying to build. No, he's not playing, but he'll be looking for those traits out of the players on this roster and we may wind up being surprised at how this roster looks at the end of August.
Homey D. Clown Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Hmmm, I seem to recall a recent player who had that fire in his belly. Tried to motivate his teamates with his play and talk. Fans here ran him out of town and now he is playing in the NFC Championship game. Just sayin It's one thing to have an ego and be GOOD, and it's another to be colossally average, and have an ego. Happy he is no longer on the team, if anyone watched the San Fran game, 'lil Donte was TERRIBLE.
Bud Adams Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Belichek shows much more emotion than someone like Gailey. He may not be a Harbaugh or Gruden, but he's not crypt keeper either. BA
TAinLack. Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Fitz looked like he had a tranfusion of embalming fluid this year!
billsfan714 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 A perfect example of our futility and lack of leadership is Kelsay. When has this guy ever led the D? The only expertise he has is our playoff drought. But somhow we extended him because he's a "leader". Give me the Bickering Bills, guys who gave a crap about not losing.
SouthernMan Posted January 17, 2013 Author Posted January 17, 2013 A perfect example of our futility and lack of leadership is Kelsay. When has this guy ever led the D? The only expertise he has is our playoff drought. But somhow we extended him because he's a "leader". Give me the Bickering Bills, guys who gave a crap about not losing. I don't necessarily think anyone, coach or player, has to be the annointed as a rah-rah "leader" to motivate the squad, though obviously it's the coach's job to steer the team and I believe the QB is accurately regarded as the field general on offense. As far as anyone being a motivational guru for others, I expect each individual to be their own leader and have that intense competative burning desire to give it their all have the will to beat the living snot out of the opposing player they're matched up against on every snap. Those are the players we'll be watching this weekend. Take note Bills. A few former Bills who come to mind who fit this description would be Andre, Thurman, Bruce, Spielman, Kelly, Flutie, Tasker, Hull, Talley. Competitors who didn't take losing lightly. Who comes to mind from the current roster that has the same perceived level of intensity? Maybe Kyle Williams. Who else?
BobbyC81 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 . Once it is known throughout a locker room that EVERY player must give it his all, then slackers disappear quickly. The coaches must also be this way, to a higher degree, and make sure their preparations are good enough to give their team an edge. In regard to the players knowing that they are all in it together and must give it everything - imagine what it did to the Bills locker room this past season when Mario Williams was brought in and given priveleges like refrigerators, his choice of music, etc. (all stuff I read about towards the beginning of the season), and then add to that his enormous salary, and then he goes out on the field and looks to be giving it a half hearted go for the first half of the season, and at times afterward. The way the Bills treated him was a mistake, and I'll bet it screwed up the locker room's cromraderie. I'm hoping to hear that Marrone puts an end to this BS with Mario.
Best Player Available Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 A perfect example of our futility and lack of leadership is Kelsay. When has this guy ever led the D? The only expertise he has is our playoff drought. But somhow we extended him because he's a "leader". Give me the Bickering Bills, guys who gave a crap about not losing. Amen! When Mario right after he signed proclaimed that he does his work on the field, and not a big locker room guy. I wasn't overly excited with that comment. The bickering Bills in hindsight where about to become as SI put it. "The Big Bad Bills." Ther Gailey team was nothing but fluff (no disrespect to fluffhead here). I agree 100%. All that BS is such show. The Bucs HATED Gruden and he lost that team. How would posters here feel if their boss was screaming at them? Now imagine you are a millionaire who could snap your boss in half (not Marrone though). The screaming BS is a gimmick. I gave up on chucky after his time in Oakland. But, the Raiders quit on him in the same manner.
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