Poll: Should the "Redskins" name be changed?

[Big Gun]

I wouldn't change it. As for having my grandfathers great grandmother be native makes me a very small percent native and native names don't bother me one bit. I HATE PC.

 

Should the Air Force change the Apache helicopter? It is a killing machine. Do native Apache's want to be portrayed as killing machines. I am truly amazed at how thin skinned people have become. The country is doomed.

[Garion]

Calling a helicopter (or football team) the "Italians" is different than calling it the "dirty wops"

If that terminology is unfamiliar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wop

 

Or "wetbacks" or "n word the word filter won't allow"

 

 

 

[ThurmasThoman]

This is just another result of the road our nation is taking, we have turned into a nation of lazy a** whiners that would rather sit & concentrate on things that we can complain about rather than doing something constructive !!

 

yes.

 

you forgot one thing though:

 

it's all the fault of the white male.

[Nanker]

Personally, I'm much more offended by the Cleveland Indians logo than the DC team's.

[Max Fischer]

Of all the things... this is what we care about. Sad sad country we live in..

 

Yup, we should go back to a time when we didn't care about anything unless a clear majority cared about it. Stop progress now.

 

I wouldn't change it. As for having my grandfathers great grandmother be native makes me a very small percent native and native names don't bother me one bit. I HATE PC.

 

Should the Air Force change the Apache helicopter? It is a killing machine. Do native Apache's want to be portrayed as killing machines. I am truly amazed at how thin skinned people have become. The country is doomed.

 

1813: "This country is doomed for whining about the darkies"

 

1913: "This country is doomed is cuddling to women"

[ExiledInIllinois]

Buffalo Bill Cody, Native exploiter. Should we really be talking about this? How do Natives Americans feel about the Buffalo Bills?

[truth on hold]

If it truly offends enough people then it should go. Tricky thing is quantifying "enough". If it only takes 1 thats too little, or a petition signed by a 100 million that's too much. Also need to weight it per size of community. Question I have here:

 

- if this is really equivalent of n-word, who was so foolish to have missed that in the first place? Because no one would want a team named for a Derogatory racial slander.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[BillsBytheBay]

It is a little derogatory. The capital of our nation has a team named after the people that it very nearly commited genocide against. It's a part of our history that we shouldn't be proud of, but we should still own. I think the name shouldn't change... But the argument to change it has its place. Talking about it keeps the topic alive.

I live in Jacksonville Fl. Named for the man who killed more seminol Indians than god. (pres. Jackson) we have a high school named Nathan B. Forrest. For thoughs who arent familiar with the name, he was the founder of the KKK. Every year people try to change the name. Every year it doesn't happen, but every year we talk about it.

[87168]

Personally I don't understand why there is even a pole. My guess is there aren't many native americans on this board so asking if this name "redskins" is offensive is of course going to yield different answers and opinions.

 

Not to mention, the Bills fans base, especially on this board aren't the most culturally sensitive bunch.

 

Buffalo Bill Cody, Native exploiter. Should we really be talking about this? How do Natives Americans feel about the Buffalo Bills?

 

That's a tad bit different than singling out an entire race's skin complexion.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Named for the man who killed more seminol Indians than god. (pres. Jackson) we have a high school named Nathan B. Forrest. For thoughs who arent familiar with the name, he was the founder of the KKK. Every year people try to change the name. Every year it doesn't happen, but every year we talk about it.

 

Are you serious??!! Note to self... don't live in northern Florida

[NoSaint]

If it truly offends enough people then it should go. Tricky thing is quantifying "enough". If it only takes 1 thats too little, or a petition signed by a 100 million that's too much. Also need to weight it per size of community. Question I have here:

 

- if this is really equivalent of n-word, who was so foolish to have missed that in the first place? Because no one would want a team named for a Derogatory racial slander.

 

best guess to address the question - the owner of the redskins was notoriously racist which i bring up as not an indictment that hes trying to screw them here but that perhaps.... is it possible that this guy was for enough out of touch with (especially our current) reality that he took a term that wasnt really a huge honor and essentially thought to himself "those crazy injuns should be honored that wed use them as a mascot" and created what was actually an insulting situation? that he didnt totally realize/care that actual indians would be insulted by him creating a charicature of them and then going with a name that is also off color - we have people in these threads that always argue the same even 80 years later.

 

kind of a distant relation to a grandparent that grew up in the south sometimes dropping terribly offensive statements that because of their upbringing they dont even register as truly offensive?

 

(disclaimer, thats a bit of thinking out loud on my part obviously, and despite knowing the broad strokes of the story im no expert on the man or how the name came to be)

Edited January 15, 2013 by NoSaint

[The Wiz]

I will say that the name is disrespectful but at the same time it's interesting how this team is the only one that ever gets the finger pointed at them.

 

Minnesota Vikings: Vikings - a group of people that were dedicated to exploring new lands and killing and raping everyone that got in their way.

Oakland Raiders: Raiders - symbolized by a pirate which I'm sure speaks for itself.

Buffalo Bills - Named after "Buffalo Bill" Cody who is famous for killing thousands of bison over an 18 month span and even had a shootout with William Comestock to see who could kill more bison and use the name "Buffalo Bill".

 

Obviously these three don't apply because there are no longer groups/people like these but the question could still be asked if you wanted to be associated with a name that is more infamous than famous.

 

EDIT: Not that it makes it right, but we should all realize that a lot of the racial terms were common place when the team name was created.

Edited January 15, 2013 by The Wiz

[NoSaint]

I will say that the name is disrespectful but at the same time it's interesting how this team is the only one that ever gets the finger pointed at them.

 

Minnesota Vikings: Vikings - a group of people that were dedicated to exploring new lands and killing and raping everyone that got in their way.

Oakland Raiders: Raiders - symbolized by a pirate which I'm sure speaks for itself.

Buffalo Bills - Named after "Buffalo Bill" Cody who is famous for killing thousands of bison over an 18 month span and even had a shootout with William Comestock to see who could kill more bison and use the name "Buffalo Bill".

 

Obviously these three don't apply because there are no longer groups/people like these but the question could still be asked if you wanted to be associated with a name that is more infamous than famous.

 

EDIT: Not that it makes it right, but we should all realize that a lot of the racial terms were common place when the team name was created.

 

to the first half - its radically different as no one is arguing that they shouldnt name teams after indians because indians killed people. id say apples to oranges, but the gulf between the two statements is wider than that

 

to the edit - i agree that widespread acceptance of racism likely made casual by comparison racially charged terms like this essentially not even register (kind of what i was getting at in my reply to joe). that said its still amazing that 80 years later no redskin owner has said "yea your probably right, lets switch it to warriors"

[dogman]

I will say that the name is disrespectful but at the same time it's interesting how this team is the only one that ever gets the finger pointed at them.

 

Minnesota Vikings: Vikings - a group of people that were dedicated to exploring new lands and killing and raping everyone that got in their way.

Oakland Raiders: Raiders - symbolized by a pirate which I'm sure speaks for itself.

Buffalo Bills - Named after "Buffalo Bill" Cody who is famous for killing thousands of bison over an 18 month span and even had a shootout with William Comestock to see who could kill more bison and use the name "Buffalo Bill".

 

Obviously these three don't apply because there are no longer groups/people like these but the question could still be asked if you wanted to be associated with a name that is more infamous than famous.

 

EDIT: Not that it makes it right, but we should all realize that a lot of the racial terms were common place when the team name was created.

I just think we should not name teams after a people we committed genocide against.

 

Really this is one of the most intersting/intelligent conversations I've read on this blog-from both sides. Bravo!

 

Much more interesting than "Should Traveras Tillman play the last game?'

[DrDawkinstein]

I will say that the name is disrespectful but at the same time it's interesting how this team is the only one that ever gets the finger pointed at them.

 

Minnesota Vikings: Vikings - a group of people that were dedicated to exploring new lands and killing and raping everyone that got in their way.

Oakland Raiders: Raiders - symbolized by a pirate which I'm sure speaks for itself.

Buffalo Bills - Named after "Buffalo Bill" Cody who is famous for killing thousands of bison over an 18 month span and even had a shootout with William Comestock to see who could kill more bison and use the name "Buffalo Bill".

 

Obviously these three don't apply because there are no longer groups/people like these but the question could still be asked if you wanted to be associated with a name that is more infamous than famous.

 

EDIT: Not that it makes it right, but we should all realize that a lot of the racial terms were common place when the team name was created.

 

Funny you mention Vikings as they actually landed in North America hundreds of years before it was "discovered", yet they didnt see the need to kill all the native inhabitants...

 

The other difference is, these teams are named after groups that did the wronging and it was to a non-specific group of people. The Redskins are using a derogatory term which refers to an oppressed and systematically slaughtered group.

 

I also get a big kick out of anyone voting "I value tradition in this debate". Which traditions? The traditions that Native Americans enjoyed for hundreds of years before being killed off? Or the New America tradition of killing Indians? Are you seriously telling me that something as silly as a team name from another city is more important to you than either of those?

[Mark Vader]

It is a little derogatory. The capital of our nation has a team named after the people that it very nearly commited genocide against. It's a part of our history that we shouldn't be proud of, but we should still own. I think the name shouldn't change... But the argument to change it has its place. Talking about it keeps the topic alive.

I live in Jacksonville Fl. Named for the man who killed more seminol Indians than god. (pres. Jackson) we have a high school named Nathan B. Forrest. For thoughs who arent familiar with the name, he was the founder of the KKK. Every year people try to change the name. Every year it doesn't happen, but every year we talk about it.

Wow! That is amazing. Although in a way I understand. Forrest was one of the confederacy's best generals. Some historians view him as a genius tactician in how he used his cavalry. Just out of curiosity, what is that high school's mascot?

 

I've also heard that there are statues of Jefferson Davis in some areas of the south.

[DrDawkinstein]

Wow! That is amazing. Although in a way I understand. Forrest was one of the confederacy's best generals. Some historians view him as a genius tactician in how he used his cavalry. Just out of curiosity, what is that high school's mascot?

 

I've also heard that there are statues of Jefferson Davis in some areas of the south.

 

Statues?

 

Come to Stone Mountain, Georiga and see the largest monument to the Confederacy in the US! It's the Mount Rushmore of the South! (carved by the same guy)

 

Edited January 15, 2013 by DrDareustein

[Mark Vader]

Statues?

 

Come to Stone Mountain, Georiga and see the largest monument to the Confederacy in the US! It's the Mount Rushmore of the South! (carved by the same guy)

 

Guess that answers my question.

 

Fascinating.

[DrDawkinstein]

Guess that answers my question.

 

Fascinating.

 

It's also the best site for any family picnic/reunion, tubing in the winter, famous laser light show all summer, Old Timey Theme Park, or just your basic Klan meeting!

 

In all honesty, I've been there a few times. Very good hiking up the side of the rock, lots of trails and stuff in the surrounding park.

[Mark Vader]

It's also the best site for any family picnic/reunion, tubing in the winter, famous laser light show all summer, Old Timey Theme Park, or just your basic Klan meeting!

 

In all honesty, I've been there a few times. Very good hiking up the side of the rock, lots of trails and stuff in the surrounding park.

The furthest south I've been in this country was when I went to Dallas to see the Bills play the Cowboys. Aside from that I have never ventured into any of the other southern states, which is something I would love to do.