Poll: Should the "Redskins" name be changed?

[26CornerBlitz]

Yeah, I mean, why'd they go live on those dumb reservations in the first place?

 

I hope that was sarcasm.

[Mr. WEO]

Yeah, I mean, why'd they go live on those dumb reservations in the first place?

 

In 2013, that isn't as relevant a question. The government doesn't keep them there anymore. That was the point of my post.

[26CornerBlitz]

So the screaming Indian is out. But so is the smiling Indian.

 

What about "the Fighting Irish"? You just know everyone means "the Drunken, Fighting Irish". An F-ing leprachaun with his dukes up?? Where's the outcry?

 

 

 

I don't see the Native American leaders speaking out on why it's a great idea to keep their children holed up in tiny isolated pockets of 3rd world existence right here in this very country. Obviously, offensive sports team names certainly should be at the at the very top of any serious Native American Spokesperson Agenda, but is there no room on that list for poverty, alcoholism, joblessness, suicide and educational deficits found on their very own autonomous nations?

 

This is a trivial topic.

 

I don't agree that the topic is trivial, but you do raise valid concerns beyond this issue.

 

Notre Dame's nickname is the result of a Catholic institution at a time in American History when Catholic and Irish were interchangeable based on this link from the school:

 

http://www3.nd.edu/~wcawley/corson/whyfightingirish.htm

 

If it's a self moniker, such as the ND case, it's not the same thing as another group naming a team based on a racial slur of a minority group.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I hope that was sarcasm.

 

It was.

 

In 2013, that isn't as relevant a question. The government doesn't keep them there anymore. That was the point of my post.

 

And I know. But I don't think it's wise to point at the struggles of Native Americans as some sort of inherent flaw. Their ancestors were placed behind an enormous 8 ball (well, the ones who weren't slaughtered anyway).

[Mr. WEO]

I don't agree that the topic is trivial, but you do raise valid concerns beyond this issue.

 

Notre Dame's nickname is the result of a Catholic institution at a time in American History when Catholic and Irish were interchangeable based on this link from the school:

 

http://www3.nd.edu/~...ghtingirish.htm

 

If it's a self moniker, such as the ND case, it's not the same thing as another group naming a team based on a racial slur of a minority group.

 

The point is that any Irish American my take issue with a tired stereotype such as that on the uniforms of ND. It doesn't matter who is sponsoring the offending image.

 

 

It was.

 

 

 

And I know. But I don't think it's wise to point at the struggles of Native Americans as some sort of inherent flaw. Their ancestors were placed behind an enormous 8 ball (well, the ones who weren't slaughtered anyway).

 

Nowhere did I do that. The flaw lies with those who would perpetuate this system. That would be the leaders of the Indian nations. Their acceptance of the standard of living their reservations impose on their own people (and for what?) makes the naming of a sports team seem very trivial.

[26CornerBlitz]

The point is that any Irish American my take issue with a tired stereotype such as that on the uniforms of ND. It doesn't matter who is sponsoring the offending image.

 

Well, Irish American groups are more than welcome to lodge their disapproval. Nobody is stopping them. If they were against the name/mascot, I'd support them.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

The point is that any Irish American my take issue with a tired stereotype such as that on the uniforms of ND. It doesn't matter who is sponsoring the offending image.

 

 

 

 

Nowhere did I do that. The flaw lies with those who would perpetuate this system. That would be the leaders of the Indian nations. Their acceptance of the standard of living their reservations impose on their own people (and for what?) makes the naming of a sports team seem very trivial.

 

I realized that after I posted. My apologies.

 

In any case, yes, the naming of a football team is trivial compared to the alcoholism problem. Or the illicit drugs problem. Or the gambling problem. But we focus enough energy on trivial old football that you have to wonder whether it's trivial or not. Just something to think about.

[KD in CA]

Well, Irish American groups are more than welcome to lodge their disapproval. Nobody is stopping them. If they were against the name/mascot, I'd support them.

 

His point was that what if only a small minority of Irish had a problem with it? Is that all it should take for something to be outlawed?

[nonprophet]

t's difficult for me to understand why some Native American groups would prefer to erase all references to their fighting prowess and warrior heritage.

Thank you for articulating my point better than I did.

Edited February 14, 2013 by nonprophet

[Kaenon]

Does it need to be changed?

[26CornerBlitz]

His point was that what if only a small minority of Irish had a problem with it? Is that all it should take for something to be outlawed?

 

Like I said, anyone who's offended by the ND nickname and/or mascot should appeal to the institution to let their grievance be known. No one can tell any offended party how they should feel.

 

It shouldn't take any legal action to get an institution to voluntarily remove a racist slur of a name, but if litigation is what it indeed takes. Go for it.

 

AFAIK, no groups big or small have complained about ND.

 

Thank you for articulating my point better than I did.

 

The derogatory term that Washington uses has nothing to do with bravery or being a warrior. If you're the offended party, please explain to me how it's an honor to have another group of people name your race as the mascot for their athletic endeavor based on a historically racist slur?

Edited February 14, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz

[Mr. WEO]

I realized that after I posted. My apologies.

 

In any case, yes, the naming of a football team is trivial compared to the alcoholism problem. Or the illicit drugs problem. Or the gambling problem. But we focus enough energy on trivial old football that you have to wonder whether it's trivial or not. Just something to think about.

 

Fair enough.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

My uncle named Bill is deeply offended by the Buffalo team name. Change it now !!

[nonprophet]

The derogatory term that Washington uses has nothing to do with bravery or being a warrior.

When someone roots for a team and wears clothing emblazoned with its name and/or logo they are explicitly affiliating themselves with it and expressing tacit approval for what they believe that name and/or logo connotes. I think that we can all agree that no one wants negative connotations to be applied to them. Do you think that the people who rooted for the "Birmingham Black Barons" or "Washington Black Senators" did so with racist intentions? During the games that those teams played, how many KKK members do you think were in the stands wearing their jerseys, cheering them on and waving their banners in the air?

 

It's bad business for a sports team to choose a name that bears negative connotations for the majority of its prospective fans. The name "redskin" has everything to do with bravery and being a warrior for the fans of that team and the belief that they buy tickets and merchandise with the intention of denigrating Native Americans is ludicrous.

[bbb]

I wish my alma mater was still the Brown Indians!

 

We had a Brown Indian and a Brown Squaw for mascots:

[NoSaint]

 

When someone roots for a team and wears clothing emblazoned with its name and/or logo they are explicitly affiliating themselves with it and expressing tacit approval for what they believe that name and/or logo connotes. I think that we can all agree that no one wants negative connotations to be applied to them. Do you think that the people who rooted for the "Birmingham Black Barons" or "Washington Black Senators" did so with racist intentions? During the games that those teams played, how many KKK members do you think were in the stands wearing their jerseys, cheering them on and waving their banners in the air?

 

It's bad business for a sports team to choose a name that bears negative connotations for the majority of its prospective fans. The name "redskin" has everything to do with bravery and being a warrior for the fans of that team and the belief that they buy tickets and merchandise with the intention of denigrating Native Americans is ludicrous.

 

just because you tell them they should like it, doesnt mean they have to like it. your intentions do not always match how someone will feel about a situation.

 

do i think that the average redskin fan means any harm? absolutely not. i also realize that my intentions dont always match how im received.

 

last - i dont think theres a good reason to keep the name either. while i wouldnt forcefully change it, i think the PR department is ridiculous and could spin this as a positive change instead of looking like stubborn jerks.

[Meathead]

im still ok with the jive turkey honkey crackers

[26CornerBlitz]

When someone roots for a team and wears clothing emblazoned with its name and/or logo they are explicitly affiliating themselves with it and expressing tacit approval for what they believe that name and/or logo connotes. I think that we can all agree that no one wants negative connotations to be applied to them. Do you think that the people who rooted for the "Birmingham Black Barons" or "Washington Black Senators" did so with racist intentions? During the games that those teams played, how many KKK members do you think were in the stands wearing their jerseys, cheering them on and waving their banners in the air?

 

It's bad business for a sports team to choose a name that bears negative connotations for the majority of its prospective fans. The name "redskin" has everything to do with bravery and being a warrior for the fans of that team and the belief that they buy tickets and merchandise with the intention of denigrating Native Americans is ludicrous.

 

The Black Barons had that name to distinguish them from the Barons and many other teams incorporated Black into their names to distinguish them from their white counterparts. That was a common practice during the times when blacks were barred from playing with whites on teams.

 

Racism had nothing to do with these team names as they were usually Black owned.

 

Regardless of the "intention" of the Washington team and fans, the origin of the term is racist and was originally meant to demean and marginalize American Indians.

 

It's really not that hard to understand from their perspective. Nice try with your rationalization.

[RuntheDamnBall]

When someone roots for a team and wears clothing emblazoned with its name and/or logo they are explicitly affiliating themselves with it and expressing tacit approval for what they believe that name and/or logo connotes. I think that we can all agree that no one wants negative connotations to be applied to them. Do you think that the people who rooted for the "Birmingham Black Barons" or "Washington Black Senators" did so with racist intentions? During the games that those teams played, how many KKK members do you think were in the stands wearing their jerseys, cheering them on and waving their banners in the air?

 

It's bad business for a sports team to choose a name that bears negative connotations for the majority of its prospective fans. The name "redskin" has everything to do with bravery and being a warrior for the fans of that team and the belief that they buy tickets and merchandise with the intention of denigrating Native Americans is ludicrous.

UH, THE WHOLE REASON THE BLACK SENATORS AND BLACK BARONS EXISTED WAS BECAUSE BLACKS WERE EXCLUDED FROM THE MAJOR LEAGUE SPORT.

 

It had little to do with black pride (other than an assertion that these guys could actually play) and everything to do with giving black men the opportunity to play. Do you think that Josh Gibson would not have given his left nut for a welcome from the Yankees with open arms and a feature role in their lineup (and the money, power and progress that would have come with it)?

 

Please do not bring Negro League baseball, an institution whose very existence was predicated on institutionalized racism, into this. It makes zero sense.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

So the screaming Indian is out. But so is the smiling Indian.

 

What about "the Fighting Irish"? You just know everyone means "the Drunken, Fighting Irish". An F-ing leprachaun with his dukes up?? Where's the outcry?

 

 

 

I don't see the Native American leaders speaking out on why it's a great idea to keep their children holed up in tiny isolated pockets of 3rd world existence right here in this very country. Obviously, offensive sports team names certainly should be at the at the very top of any serious Native American Spokesperson Agenda, but is there no room on that list for poverty, alcoholism, joblessness, suicide and educational deficits found on their very own autonomous nations?

 

This is a trivial topic.

 

The outcry would come if they changed the name to The Fighting Micks. After, the word "Irish" is not derogatory.

 

Again... It is all about empowerment. The Seminole Tribe sanctions the use @ FLA State. The Irish embrace the image. So be it it. It all depends how the people affected by the image feel. Can they control their image or not?

 

I wish my alma mater was still the Brown Indians!

 

We had a Brown Indian and a Brown Squaw for mascots:

 

Isn't the term "squaw" derogatory/sexist? The term has been sanitized and revised though. Then again, what guy doesn't want to go to a Squaw Valley. :-O

 

 

UH, THE WHOLE REASON THE BLACK SENATORS AND BLACK BARONS EXISTED WAS BECAUSE BLACKS WERE EXCLUDED FROM THE MAJOR LEAGUE SPORT.

 

It had little to do with black pride (other than an assertion that these guys could actually play) and everything to do with giving black men the opportunity to play. Do you think that Josh Gibson would not have given his left nut for a welcome from the Yankees with open arms and a feature role in their lineup (and the money, power and progress that would have come with it)?

 

Please do not bring Negro League baseball, an institution whose very existence was predicated on institutionalized racism, into this. It makes zero sense.

 

Separate IS inherently unequal.