A Few Scattered Thoughts About Running Quarterbacks.....

[Gugny]

There haven't been any. A pocket passer that happens to run well when forced to scramble, aka Elway, doesn't count, IMO. In fact, I don't think any running QBs have even made it to the Superbowl (does Tarkenton count?). But Tarkenton and even Steve Young seemed to be pass first and run only when I have to QBs (albeit with some designed runs thrown in). I would argue its because running QBs have grown up using their legs to bail them out and aren't very good passers. When it gets to the playoffs, its too easy to shut down the run game and force these guys to pass. Hence, they fall short. Sure they win, they make great highlight reels. But, in the end, the most consistent teams win and win it all with pocket QBs.

 

Now, perhaps the worm is turning, but I think it'll take a running QB who is also an excellent passing QB, to really do something. Kap seems to be the better passer; hence, I give him a far higher chance of succeeding than RGIII for example. I suppose time will tell. But, if you're looking to build a long term winning franchise I would still prefer to go the tried and true route as opposed to looking for that first QB that can take a read/option spread offense to the SB.

This. All the way.

 

The term, "running quarterback," is too vague. You need to determine WHY the quarterback is running.

 

Quarterbacks like Vick, Tebow or Flutie run/ran because a) they aren't good passers and b) they are unable to read the defense and call a proper audible.

 

Quarterbacks like McNabb or Young ran because either the play broke apart or the coverage was tight.

 

Quarterbacks who live on the broken play will never succeed.

 

They are easy to defend when the field gets shorter and no one can take that kind of abuse.

 

So if you like chewing the clock just to get field goals, fumbles and injuries ... go get your quarterback who runs because he's not good enough to do anything else.

[truth on hold]

Yeah some of these guys now are cats of a different breed. Vick does throw a good ball, but at 5'11" he lacks the vision of a kaepernick at 6'5". Seems like taller QBs have better touch too. Kaepernicks performance both RUN and PASS against packers was mesmerizing.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack

[C.Biscuit97]

Yeah some of these guys now are cats of a different breed. Vick does throw a good ball, but at 5'11" he lacks the vision of a kaepernick at 6'5". Seems like taller QBs have better touch too. Kaepernicks performance both RUN and PASS against packers was mesmerizing.

 

Of all the QBs we passed on, Kaep is the guy I really wanted. He would have been a perfect QB to sit for a year behind Fitz. He was Cam Newton Jr. I never got that as an offensive coach, why you won't push to always have a young QB to develop.

 

And the NFL is a completely different league now. With all the rule changes, these type of QBs are the future. It's not to say pocket passers don't have a place, but if you can get both, it's almost impossible for a defense to defend. One of these guys will win a SB in the next few years.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

The great thing about the read option is the misdirection, the bad thing is that you can cause your own turnovers with the handoffs. Kaep also holds the ball very poorly in his hands (I believe he fumbled against Buffalo in one of his plays). I wouldnt be surprised if he accounts for between 10-15 fumbles next year. However I still think with that team he can go 12-4, 13-3.

[RevWarRifleman]

FYI - he's not a rookie. This is his second year.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Time flies.

[JohnC]

Good, good post. I'm not as critical of Buddy because of the improvements made in other areas (i.e., the lines), but there is no question he has failed miserably with respect to QB. I have also posted numerous times I want Marrone/Hackett/Whaley to determine who is "the" QB in this draft they think can lead the team for 10 years, and then get him at #8 without regard for others labeling it a "reach." Some have assumed it will be Nassib -- I don't think Marrone is dumb enough to telegraph his moves. Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. But we're hoping for the same thing.

 

Thanks for the kind words. But I strenuously disagree with your assement on Buddy Nix.

 

What I am not going to allow myself to do is fall into the crippling mind-set of low expectations. The fan base in western NY has been too tolerate of the inane ownership and second-rate management of this NFL franchise. Let's look at Nix's three year record. Under his stewardship the Bills have gone 16-32. His record against AFC teams is 4-14. Against teams in the playoffs his record is 2-18, a 10% winning percentage. The Jauron/Levy combo had a better record!

 

You do acknowledge that Nix has failed miserably on the qb issue. But that isn't something trivial. Selecting a competent qb is probably the most important factor determining success in the NFL . This clueless countryboy not only failed on that issue but what is even more revolting is that he didn't even seriously try in his three year tenure. While he passed up draft opportunities later drafting teams seized on his lassitude. That is a classic example of malfeasance and nonfeasance rolled into one.

 

Let's put Nix's record on the qb issue aside. He has had three drafts to demonstrate his competency. In three drafts his only impact player was Spiller. Overall, it is more than fair to say that his drafting is in the below average to average range. When you are a bottom feeding team you can't afford many draft mistakes. How do you catch up with the better teams when they are drafting better than you? How do you improve your status when the teams behind you are getting better at a faster rate than you are? When you say that the Bills are better under Nix who are you comparing them to, themselves?

 

eball, don't apologize or be defensive about demanding better. Don't be reluctant to demand excellence because you as a fan have been so battered that deep down you don't believe that this franchise is capable of competing with the big boys. Don't graciously accept long term garbage and have an attitude that at least we have a team. Don't allow yourself to have that "loser" mentality. Something is systemically wrong that in a system designed for parity the Bills will have been out of the playoffs for 13 consecutive years. In my view Nix is part of that dismal history.

 

Before Ralph Wilson stopped being involved with his team he did what he usually does: hire incompetents. Instead of hiring someone who would have used the three years to meaningully advance the building process he hired someone with antiquated ideas that kept this franchise stuck in the mud.

 

On a positive note I do have some hope. Now that the feudal owner is not involved and has passed his authority to manage the franchise to Brandon I am encouraged that the Bills are going to be managed in a "normal" fashion. The hiring process of the new HC was well done. It "appears" that Nix is going to be diplomatically transitioned into retirement (I hope) and that a more youthful and energetic person, Whaley, will be taking control of the football operation. Those are all good signs. The shame of the situation is that this process should have been so much more advanced.

[Haven Moses]

This era of running QB's doesn't seem to get hit as much. If the QB keeps it on the read option, more often than not he runs out of bounds. How many times more did Kap get hit than a normal QB does?

 

LB's will be at a super premium. You need guys big enough to take on blockers, can run down a running QB, and cover Gronkowski. Pretty tall order.

[Armchair GM]

I know you got ticked off about comments about your "thoughts" after Bills games. But you should keep them coming, your posts are good and never TBD poster critical it seems. You got to rise above the riff raff LOL

 

I think moving forward, you are screwed without a very mobile QB. Brady excepted because the NFL will not allow anyone near him

 

He took a couple shots yesterday that I've seen get called previously...and I liked it. Not sure how much weight it'll carry into next season , given that it's the playoffs. But, just sayn'

[BringBackFergy]

It's an interesting thought, but I don't think running QBs or the QB Read Option is going to stick around too long. CK looked fantastic last night, but part of that is I don't think defenses are accustomed to playing against it yet. If you look at the real successful QBs in the NFL right now, it's all classic pocket passers. Brady, Manning, Brees, Ryan, and Rogers just to name a few.

 

I also think what teams are trying to do with RGIII, CK, and Wilson is slim down the playbook to get these guys on the field. As they get a little more mature and more comfortable with the complex NFL offenses, you'll see less running/read option and more traditional offenses. Teams have to protect their biggest investments, which is the QB.

 

I agree. There are two types of offenses....pocket passer types (Flacco, Brady, Ryan) and running passers (Kaepernick). In this instance, 75% of the Conference Championship games are made up of pocket passers.

 

If we don't get a running passer in the draft (and assuming we don't reach for one we think is a running passer just because it is now the "thing to do"), then draft a pure passer and we will be vastly improved over last year.

[KOKBILLS]

I never got that as an offensive coach, why you won't push to always have a young QB to develop.

 

This is something I'll never understand either...And The Bills are definitely not the only team that suffered, is suffering, or will suffer from this mistake. I was just having this conversation with my friend who is a Cowboys fan yesterday...It makes no sense not to use that 3rd QB spot for developing a young guy every year...It can pay off huge...And if it does not pay off, what can it hurt? Try again...

[KeisterHollow]

A QB who can run is great, as long as he can make all the throws - however, a QB who can run but CANT make all the throws - well, that is a QB who is going to be figured out very quickly - TEBOW, if you will. I will go on record here, when it comes to predicting future NFL tendencies, and say that things like this happen every couple of years, and then there are, in this case, defenses designed, practiced and ran, that eliminate much of the threat.

 

As far as I'm concerned, no matter what, the most important elements of QB'ing in the NFL are arm strength, accuracy, and decision making. If you can add running to that group then you've got a special talent. I agree that these types are going to be more prominent, and you'll see more and more over the years.

 

Funny, the Bills don't have a QB who can pass it well OR run it well! If it were up to me, I'd go after such a duel threat QB if he were available, but the Bills need to get a guy who can at the very least throw it accurately. Here's to hoping the Bills coaches are finally on top of everything and get us a really legitimate QB.

 

I agree, as well, with those people touting the speedy LB's who are big enough to cover big TE's - that, apparently, is a type harder to find than the good running QB's. I think the Bills would be far, far better served if they could manage to get a couple speedy, capable shutdown LB's, and just a good, accurate passing QB, instead of going all in on a highly prized running QB. The great LB'ers seem to be harder to find these days.

 

I know it hasn't shown much, but I still think a dominant defense is better than a dominant offense. I don't think there are too many dominant defenses in the playoffs this year - the 49ers and the Seahawks were the best two, and I think the 49ers Defense will carry them all the way this year, barring significant injuries.

[Nitro]

Non playoff teams will look to Seattle as a template to get to the post season. Solid defense, stout running game and the new read/run option offense run by a athletic/running QB. Wilson was a good thrower in college. There are more successful mobile college QBs with moderate throwing skills available in the draft that the classic pocket passer. Teams will alter their schemes to exploit those skills. WIll Buffalo be one? Chances are yes. The NFL is evolving and the classic pocket passer is on the wan for now. Case of economic principle of suppy and demand.

[Rico]

5) Most fans and sportswriters say that Montana was the best QB ever, but I have heard many defensive players say that they would rather face Montana than Steve Young. Kapernick is bigger and faster than Young, but Young had moves that would fake guys out of their socks.

No doubt Steve Young was much harder to defend against, thanks to his unique skill set. But when it comes to intangibles & bottom-line results, he can not come close to being mentioned in the same breath as Joe. That's why he sat on the bench & watched the master at work. I will give him props for FINALLY getting a ring, but let's not get carried away here.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Non playoff teams will look to Seattle as a template to get to the post season. Solid defense, stout running game and the new read/run option offense run by a athletic/running QB. Wilson was a good thrower in college. There are more successful mobile college QBs with moderate throwing skills available in the draft that the classic pocket passer. Teams will alter their schemes to exploit those skills. WIll Buffalo be one? Chances are yes. The NFL is evolving and the classic pocket passer is on the wan for now. Case of economic principle of suppy and demand.

 

TWO fluke wins to make the playoffs is a template other teams will look to? LoL... Things can go terribly wrong for Seattle next year if they don't get those two (especially the scab refs win @ GB) wins next year.

 

LoL...

[mannc]

 

 

TWO fluke wins to make the playoffs is a template other teams will look to? LoL... Things can go terribly wrong for Seattle next year if they don't get those two (especially the scab refs win @ GB) wins next year.

 

LoL...

If you don't think Seattle was one of the four best teams in the NFC by the end of the regular season then you were not paying attention. The improved greatly during the season as Wilson gained experience.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If you don't think Seattle was one of the four best teams in the NFC by the end of the regular season then you were not paying attention. The improved greatly during the season as Wilson gained experience.

 

Not saying that, they got in. Anybody has a shot if they make the playoffs... See last years 9-7 Giants. Any team can beat any team any given week... EXCEPT the Bills vs. Pats*... And maybe the Texans vs. Pats* in that boat! Look @ how the Rams played the Niners this season. NFC west has been chronically sucky... Maybe SF is rising to the top but, they play clunkers...

[Bill from NYC]

So...... Tebow?

 

Tebow, while as strong as an ox, is a lot slower than the players that I mentioned. And he lacks accuracy.

 

That said, if I ws a jests fan, I would rather enter a season with Tebow than Sanchez as my starting quarterback. Sanchez is as finished as JP Losman. One can see it in his eyes. And I think that there is a place in this league for Tebow as a backup QB.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[MDH]

No doubt Steve Young was much harder to defend against, thanks to his unique skill set. But when it comes to intangibles & bottom-line results, he can not come close to being mentioned in the same breath as Joe. That's why he sat on the bench & watched the master at work. I will give him props for FINALLY getting a ring, but let's not get carried away here.

 

I disagree completely. Young is one of the best - if not THE best - QB I've ever seen. I'd take him over Montana in a heartbeat.

[JohnC]

Tebow, while as strong as an ox, is a lot slower than the players that I mentioned. And he lacks accuracy.

hy

That said, if I ws a jests fan, I would rather enter a season with Tebow than Sanchez as my starting quarterback. Sanchez is as finished as JP Losman. One can see it in his eyes. And I think that there is a place in this league for Tebow as a backup QB.

 

The best place for Tebow to relocate and prosper is in the CFL. Tebow was a great college qp in a powerhouse program. His crude passing skills aren't suited for a league that requires sharp skills.

 

You make an excellent comparison between Sanchez and JP Losman. They both had physical skills that didn't translate to on field production. With JP maybe the best approach would have been to gradually bring him along (school) and then have a more prepared player assume the starting position. An intriquing question could be asked if Losman ever could have been developed as a qb to match his impressive physical skills? I lean more to no than towards yes. In my view he simply didn't have the football instincts required to become a good qb.

 

Sanchez is a little different story. He is a fragile player performing in the unmerciful pressure cooker of the NFL market. It certainly didn't help his cause that he didn't have any worthwile receivers to help him. What Sanchez needs is a change of scenery to a less intense place such as Arizona. He also needs some theraputic time to recover from the battle fatigue he has already endured.

 

A lot of people were highly critical of Pete Carroll, his HC at USC, when he told Sanchez that he needed more time to play and develop before entering the NFL. Many people felt that that advice was self-serving and against the interests of the player. In hindsight the college coach was right.

Edited January 15, 2013 by JohnC

[dbflaBill]

Colin Klein has a good arm? what games are you guys watching. His arm, and inability to be a natural passer is why this guy will go 6th round or undrafted. You people have to stop watching ESPN so much, and believing that a Heisman finalist is a great qb ( eric crouch, tommy frazier, Josh white). Actual heisman winner, but not NFL qbs.