Shoutbox Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 If its not the qb. There is a good chance it is a corner. We need one and pettine comes from a d that valued corner play The Bills need another pass rusher MUCH more than they need another !@#$ing 1st round corner. For any of you who bothered to watch the Bills games this season, you will have noticed that there was zero pass rush outside of Mario Williams on occasion. This draft is weak overall, but unusually strong with pass rushers. Here's 6 off the top of my head who may grade out as top 10 in a few months: Jarvis Jones, Georgia Barkevious Mingo, LSU Sam Montgomery, LSU Bjoern Werner, FSU Damontre Moore, Texas A&M Dion Jordan, Oregon It's way past time for this franchise to move away from 1st rounders on DB's we don't bother to re-sign and go get some quality pass rushers.
JohnC Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) The more I look in to Nassib the more I find that there is a massive gap in the way folks are viewing him...Just for the heck of it yesterday I Googled "2013 NFL Draft Top 100." I specifically wanted to see where Nassib was being projected currently...I saw anywhere from the 30's to some big boards leaving him off their Top 100!!! That's a serious gap!!! A couple things...First and foremost Nassib is listed at 6-2 and if he measures under that it's not going to help his Draft stock... This Scouting Report on Nassib would lead anyone to believe he's got huge potential...But I have no idea who wrote it...I do know he was rated #52 overall on the big board that linked this report...http://www.buffalobi...couting-report/ From the film that I have watched on Nassib, and the two games I saw him play live (on tv...Lousiville and West Virginia), I came away impressed...Not blown away by any means...But impressed...I'm impressed by his consistency...Not necessarily his accuracy all the time...But his consistency...Nassib's LOWEST QB rating for an individual game in 2012 was 107.1 vs. Pittsburgh...Looking at his 2012 spilts is very interesting...He was a MUCH better QB in the 2nd half of Games when compared to the 1st half (+12.3 higher completions, +41 QB Rating, and 14 more TD's in the 2nd half of games)...I REALLY like that about him...It tells me he reacts well to in-game adjustments, and he's a gamer...He's playing better when the game is on the line...I don't think that stat can be attributed too heavily to stat padding late either because Syracuse lost it's 5 games by an average of a TD and a 2-point conversion...They only lost 2 games by more than 10 points...Anyway...Just some food for thought... The more I look at Nassib the more I like him...I do wish he was a couple inches taller, and I also wish his completion % was over 65 (it was 62.4 in 2011 and 2012), but you can't have everything...The fact that he may be teamed up with his College Coaches back in Buffalo would certainly be a big reason for The Bills to consider him...I've watched a TON of QB film from most of the top prospects already...And I plan on watching a ton more...Honestly, I can't exactly put my finger on why just yet, but I like Nassib more than any other QB I've seen outside of Geno Smith, and Tyler Wilson...And in my mind right now he's about even with Tyler Wilson...I think Nassib is a better NFL prospect than Ponder and Locker for sure...Maybe just as good as Dalton...Definitely more NFL ready than Kaepernick (though Kaepernick is clearly the superior athlete), or Ryan Tannehill (again Tannehill is the better athlete)...Now before anyone jumps to anything, I'm not saying Nassib is a better prospect than Kaepernick was, just much more NFL ready is all... So it makes me wonder...How high can Nassib go if he measures out at + 6-2, and has a great 3 months of workouts??? It's a big time mystery right now... Excellent post. Very detailed and great effort. I'm not wedded to any particular prospect although at this very early stage I lean towards Tyler Wilson. There is still pending a long and exhaustive review of the qb prospects that will alter the rankings. It is without a doubt a challenging issue for any organization. What I can definitely say is that avoiding the qb issue doesn't do much for your franchise other than set it back. Let's not expect any miracles. If the Bills select a qb with a first or second round pick and decide to play the rookie right away it will probably hurt the team's prospects for at least in the short term making the playoffs. That is one of my primary reasons for being so critical of Nix's decision not to get a good prospect in the pipeline sooner rather than later. What makes the selection of a qb so challenging is trying to make a judgment as to which qb is best suited for your system and which qb in the long run has the greatest upside. Is it better to select a more talented passer such as Glennon who might take more time to develop over a qb such as Nassib who will probably be able to fit in more quickly with the team's offensive system, yet who might in the long run have less of an upside. Nassib reminds me a lot of Dalton, which is a good thing. But if you are drafting at the eight spot is that what you want to come away with? My position is to go with the long term view and not the short term quick fix. If your goals are high then go with the best long term talent. Edited January 12, 2013 by JohnC
JPS Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 If its not the qb. There is a good chance it is a corner. We need one and pettine comes from a d that valued corner play Blaspheme!!!! Drafting corners is the surest way to keep us at the bottom.
bisonbrigade Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Draft a Pro Bowl player. Draft a Pro Bowl player.
JM57 Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 It is a degenerative disorder, so the most you can expect is that he'll lead the league in tackles for loss for a few years. DaQuan Bowers also had a degenerative condition when he was coming out of Clemson a few years ago and that caused him to slide, did it not? I believe that's who it was....slid him from #1 possibility into the 2nd round IIRC
Solomon Grundy Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 Buffalo cannot use the 8th pick on a QB! None of these QBs in the draft are worthy of that pick. Frankly, I don't know how many are first rounders. There will be a QB available to the Bills in the 2nd rd. Solidify your offensive line by getting a left tackle. Move Cordy Glenn to the right side. Resign Levitre. Glennon, Wilson, Bray or Nassib are almost sure to be had in 2nd.
Koufax Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Draft a Pro Bowl player. Draft a Pro Bowl player. This. The only place I am willing to "reach" based on "need" is moving up a single round or less on a QB when we think he is capable of being a franchise QB. I think for now Nassib at #8 without trading down from #8 or trading up from #40 is a reach and allocates too much of our finite resources to the amount of value. If that changes and he is a legitimate top 15 pick then I take him at #8. If he is a 40-50ish pick then we don't have to hope he is there at 40, but can happily trade up to the second half of the first round to get him at lest cost than our #8. If at #8 there isn't a QB who we would love to have at that point, what we need to do is get the best football player we can. I would love if that were a linebacker, and we should pass if it is a RB, but everywhere else I am fine getting the most talented and valuable football player we can. If there is a DT that is better than a LB, get him. If there is a CB that really is the best value, get him. You need to weight talent evaluations of quality at the position and the importance of the position, with QB obviously being the position where a good player makes more of a difference than guard, etc, but other than our need of a QB and our non-need of a RB, this is really just part of the BPA calculus rather than a deviation from BPA. What I don't think we can do is make it through the first two rounds without picking a QB unless we think that there is not a single QB from 8-40 who has franchise upside, and solid starter downside. Last year Weeden and Osweller were the only QB picked between #8 and the end of the 2nd. 2011 Gabbert, Ponder, Dalton, Kaepernick, 2010 Tebow and Claussen 2009 Freeman and White 2008 Flacco, Brohm, Henne 2007 Quinn, Kolb, Beck, Stanton 2006 Leinart, Cutler, Clemens, T-Jax There are a handful of guys we would like to have there, but more backups since 2004-2005 When Big Ben and Rodgers were taken in that range in back to back years, and Brees a few years before that. It is tough to see right now if this year has guys in that range available. It is easy to like a guy now, and there are several I find intriguing, but my hope is that Nix & co can identify a real talent available from 8 to 40 (including trade up or trade down in that range). Trading up to the top 7 is a possibility too, and I would be very open to it if the guys who will go there are projected to be a lot more likely to star than the later guys.
Rockinon Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Draftek has the Bills taking a WR at 8? http://www.drafttek.com/2013-nfl-mock-draft-round1.asp
808 Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 DaQuan Bowers also had a degenerative condition when he was coming out of Clemson a few years ago and that caused him to slide, did it not? I believe that's who it was....slid him from #1 possibility into the 2nd round IIRC bower wrecked his knee and then didnt have the surgery and was trying to shawn merriman the situation until it was already too late.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Low down dirty even just like his brother Keenan. Keenan Allen and Tyler Wilson at 42 drafttek ? More weirdness at one bills drive. Let's do it. I'm in
Bill from NYC Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Blaspheme!!!! Drafting corners is the surest way to keep us at the bottom. No, the Bills continued over-emphasis on running backs and defensive backs in early rounds, and the continued tradition of losing football games is a mere coincidence. Let's keep doing it and expect to win.
BRAWNDO Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Do you take the guy with obvious warts over a Chance Warmack, Barrett Jones, Star Lotululititleio or Manti Te'o?? If it is Jones or Warmack you are replacing pieces of the OL not strengthening. Which is a possibly if Levitre leaves. Star is a DT and having spend the 3rd overall pick on Dareus and having Kyle Williams as a starter makes him a luxury that the Bills probably cannot afford. Te'o on the other hand is a need position so he would be a good The Bills have missed out on too many QBs in the past few drafts by sticking to their draft board. If they feel there is a QB in the draft who can be the answer, right or wrong they may have to draft him early then they want.
JPS Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 If it is Jones or Warmack you are replacing pieces of the OL not strengthening. Which is a possibly if Levitre leaves. Star is a DT and having spend the 3rd overall pick on Dareus and having Kyle Williams as a starter makes him a luxury that the Bills probably cannot afford. Te'o on the other hand is a need position so he would be a good The Bills have missed out on too many QBs in the past few drafts by sticking to their draft board. If they feel there is a QB in the draft who can be the answer, right or wrong they may have to draft him early then they want. Agreed, but what if Star is Wilfork? And what if Warmack is truly special? Kick Levitre or Urbik out to RT?
KOKBILLS Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Excellent post. Very detailed and great effort. I'm not wedded to any particular prospect although at this very early stage I lean towards Tyler Wilson. There is still pending a long and exhaustive review of the qb prospects that will alter the rankings. It is without a doubt a challenging issue for any organization. What I can definitely say is that avoiding the qb issue doesn't do much for your franchise other than set it back. Let's not expect any miracles. If the Bills select a qb with a first or second round pick and decide to play the rookie right away it will probably hurt the team's prospects for at least in the short term making the playoffs. That is one of my primary reasons for being so critical of Nix's decision not to get a good prospect in the pipeline sooner rather than later. What makes the selection of a qb so challenging is trying to make a judgment as to which qb is best suited for your system and which qb in the long run has the greatest upside. Is it better to select a more talented passer such as Glennon who might take more time to develop over a qb such as Nassib who will probably be able to fit in more quickly with the team's offensive system, yet who might in the long run have less of an upside. Nassib reminds me a lot of Dalton, which is a good thing. But if you are drafting at the eight spot is that what you want to come away with? My position is to go with the long term view and not the short term quick fix. If your goals are high then go with the best long term talent. Agreed...If The Bills were to trade down and grab an extra pick or two, I could live with taking a QB like Nassib in the 1st...But at #8? That's too high for Nassib IMHO...Just too high...
truth on hold Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) No, the Bills continued over-emphasis on running backs and defensive backs in early rounds, and the continued tradition of losing football games is a mere coincidence. Let's keep doing it and expect to win. Actually they stopped one short. Peterson (rookie pro bowl) over dareus. Peterson Gilmore Byrd who ever else = best secondary in football. Ball hawks peterson and byrd strike fear in opposing QBs. Coverage sacks soar. Edited January 13, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack
Solomon Grundy Posted January 13, 2013 Author Posted January 13, 2013 Draftek has the Bills taking a WR at 8? http://www.drafttek.com/2013-nfl-mock-draft-round1.asp I'm glad they don't work for the Bills! Their mock draft for the Bills is horrible! A 5'8" CB in the third rd? Kenjon Barner in the 4th? This ain't Dick Jauron team no more Draftek.
BRAWNDO Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Agreed, but what if Star is Wilfork? And what if Warmack is truly special? Kick Levitre or Urbik out to RT? Excellent points. But Star could also be Walt Patulski as well. Barrett Jones is an intriguing possibly. With the resigning of Urbik, I doubt the Bills are going to be able to resign both Levitre and Wood. Given Wood's injury history and Levitre's flexibility to play multiple positions on the line, I believe Levitre is the way to go. Drafting Jones would put your future center on the team this year and give them an option at guard as well. Jones or Mingo at OLB would be good choices as well. As of right now, I agree that the 8th pick is too early for any QBs in this draft. But if the Bills feel differently and draft Nassib, because of their familiarity with him, I will give the new regime the benefit of the doubt.
Shoutbox Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Actually they stopped one short. Peterson (rookie pro bowl) over dareus. Peterson Gilmore Byrd who ever else = best secondary in football. Ball hawks peterson and byrd strike fear in opposing QBs. Coverage sacks soar. I don't care if Jesus H. Christ and Muhammad are your corners and Buddha and Xenu are your safeties...give a non-Fitzpatrick QB in this league 5+ seconds in the pocket, and he will tear them to pieces. Mark Freaking Anderson is the second best pass rusher on this defense. The Bills haven't drafted a quality pass rusher (i.e., 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB) since Aaron Schobel. There could be as many as SIX pass rushers in this draft alone who would be considered blue chippers in most other drafts. Dee Milliner will be a solid pro, but he's not a Revis or Peterson kind of talent. TIME TO DRAFT A PASS RUSHER IN APRIL. I'M TYPING IN CAPS SO THAT YOU WILL FEEL THE PASSION I HAVE ABOUT THIS SUBJECT.
truth on hold Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 (edited) There are plenty of ways yo win. Superior secondary and average front 7 was the model for the best D by far in our division for last 4 years. Many sacks are coverage sacks they just don't show up in the stats that way. One can easily reverse your statement to say there's no way an online can contain rushers for x amount of seconds when the WRs arent getting open and qb has no one tothrow to Edited January 13, 2013 by Joe_the_6_pack
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