JÂy RÛßeÒ Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) http://espn.go.com/b...hing-candidates You can't have it both ways, James. The only minus for Wisenhunt is that as a retread he is "a head coach who was fired for failing somewhere else". The minus for Ray Horton is that he "is somewhat of an unknown with zero head-coaching experience." Can anybody think of an available previous head coach who wasn't fired? Bill Cowher might be the only one. Edited January 3, 2013 by JÂy RÛßeÒ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 http://espn.go.com/b...hing-candidates You can't have it both ways, James. The only minus for Wisenhunt is that as a retread he is "a head coach who was fired for failing somewhere else". The minus for Ray Horton is that he "is somewhat of an unknown with zero head-coaching experience." Can anybody think of an available previous head coach who wasn't fired? Bill Cowher might be the only one. Marc Trestman !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Was Mike Holmgren ever fired as a head coach? I don't think so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 John Madden wasn't fired but I'm not guessing he's available. The old Bum Phillips quote seems appropriate again: "There's two kinds of coaches, them that's fired and them that's gonna be fired." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) http://espn.go.com/b...hing-candidates You can't have it both ways, James. The only minus for Wisenhunt is that as a retread he is "a head coach who was fired for failing somewhere else". The minus for Ray Horton is that he "is somewhat of an unknown with zero head-coaching experience." Can anybody think of an available previous head coach who wasn't fired? Bill Cowher might be the only one. The quote was actually "....fired for failing...." I think the key component was failing rather than fired. There's a fine line here, but I personally don't see coaches such as Lovie Smith being "fired for failing" as such, more of a "time for a change" firing perhaps. Edited January 4, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) The quote was actually "....fired for failing...." I think the key component was failing rather than fired. There's a fine line here, but I personally don't see coaches such as Lovie Smith being "fired for failing" as such, more of a "time for a change" firing perhaps. You fire someone because they didn't fulfill the expectations of the job over a period of time. That's the bottom line - using the phrase "time for a change" is just a polite way is saying they didn't do the job like you wanted them to. So, while the general public thinks you did a good job, in the eyes of the organization, you failed. Lovie was fired because the Bears' front office felt that he failed. Same with Whisenhunt. Both are good coaches who probably didn't deserve to get fired, but that's my opinion. The only opinion that counts is that of the Bears' and Cardinals' front offices/owners. I wish everyone would remember that there are pros and cons to every candidate out there. In the eyes of Brandon, Whaley, & Nix, they have to find the guy who has more pros than cons. Edited January 4, 2013 by BuffaloWings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Chan Gailey was fired after he made two straight playoff appearances in his last stint as an NFL HC before the Bills hired him. He was fired as O/C in KC - not HC. I really think Whisenhunt might be the next Bellicheck. He's probably a good coach who struggled with a REALLY bad roster on offense this year. Similarly, Lovie Smith had talent at QB, RB, and WR, but the Bears OL is a horror show. I think his front office was being urealistic thinking they should be a playoff team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 From reading here, and in the media, we cannot hire: - A coach who has been fired, as he's just a "retread" and is bound to fail again. - A OC or DC as a HC, because he only has experience with one side of the ball. - A college coach, as he has no NFL experience. - A HC that "retired" and is now interested in coming back, as the NFL has passed them up, and their experiences no longer relevant. So, if I understand this correctly. The only coaching candidates that we can hire are one's who quit their job, and the next minute get hired elsewhere. But I assume that'd mean we'd be hiring a quitter, and no one likes a quitter. I just haven't seen that scenario talked about yet. 2013 Bills will have no coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) From reading here, and in the media, we cannot hire: - A coach who has been fired, as he's just a "retread" and is bound to fail again. - A OC or DC as a HC, because he only has experience with one side of the ball. - A college coach, as he has no NFL experience. - A HC that "retired" and is now interested in coming back, as the NFL has passed them up, and their experiences no longer relevant. So, if I understand this correctly. The only coaching candidates that we can hire are one's who quit their job, and the next minute get hired elsewhere. But I assume that'd mean we'd be hiring a quitter, and no one likes a quitter. I just haven't seen that scenario talked about yet. 2013 Bills will have no coaching staff. To be fair, there are college coaches who have some NFL experience. Kelly's resume is glaring for the complete lack of it, even as a player - and damned little major college experience either. But your overall point is spot-on. The media and most of the fans will make fun of whoever the Bills get. We should just be ready for that and move on. Edited January 4, 2013 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 From reading here, and in the media, we cannot hire: - A coach who has been fired, as he's just a "retread" and is bound to fail again. - A OC or DC as a HC, because he only has experience with one side of the ball. - A college coach, as he has no NFL experience. - A HC that "retired" and is now interested in coming back, as the NFL has passed them up, and their experiences no longer relevant. So, if I understand this correctly. The only coaching candidates that we can hire are one's who quit their job, and the next minute get hired elsewhere. But I assume that'd mean we'd be hiring a quitter, and no one likes a quitter. I just haven't seen that scenario talked about yet. 2013 Bills will have no coaching staff. That's an improvement over 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 From reading here, and in the media, we cannot hire: - A coach who has been fired, as he's just a "retread" and is bound to fail again. - A OC or DC as a HC, because he only has experience with one side of the ball. - A college coach, as he has no NFL experience. - A HC that "retired" and is now interested in coming back, as the NFL has passed them up, and their experiences no longer relevant. So, if I understand this correctly. The only coaching candidates that we can hire are one's who quit their job, and the next minute get hired elsewhere. But I assume that'd mean we'd be hiring a quitter, and no one likes a quitter. I just haven't seen that scenario talked about yet. 2013 Bills will have no coaching staff. All I'm saying is that the Whizinator gives me the heebie jeebies. There is one organization in football that has botched the QB position worse than the Bills over the past 2-3 seasons. That team is AZ. To some degree the HC is responsible for that mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 wasn't belichek fired from the browns? and he was traded to the jets no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) From reading here, and in the media, we cannot hire: - A coach who has been fired, as he's just a "retread" and is bound to fail again. - A OC or DC as a HC, because he only has experience with one side of the ball. - A college coach, as he has no NFL experience. - A HC that "retired" and is now interested in coming back, as the NFL has passed them up, and their experiences no longer relevant. So, if I understand this correctly. The only coaching candidates that we can hire are one's who quit their job, and the next minute get hired elsewhere. But I assume that'd mean we'd be hiring a quitter, and no one likes a quitter. I just haven't seen that scenario talked about yet. 2013 Bills will have no coaching staff. Exactly. No matter who the Bills end up with you can count on 3 things ... 1) Some people will love him, will be amazed at how such a great coach was ever available in the first place, and start making SB reservations. Just look as posts here back when Gailey was first hired to see plenty of examples. 2) Some people will hate him because he obviously sucks, why else would he come to Buffalo. 3) The majority of people will wait and see what develops because this is not their first time at the Buffalo Bills rodeo. I hope that after so many misses that the Bills get a good coaching staff this time around and we aren't in this same place 3 years from now. But I fall into category 3 above. Edited January 4, 2013 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have no problem hiring a retread (somebody that was fired by another team), as long as they haven't already proven to be a failure as an NFL Head Coach. Otherwise I want to give somebody new a shot. For example: > Ken Whisenhunt has been a head coach 6 years. His overall record is 45-51 and the best regular season his team had was 10-6. He's had plenty of time to assert himself as a good coach and those results just aren't good enough. People point out that he brought Arizona to the Super Bowl, but (like Jauron's one good season with the Bears) that seems to be more of an abberation. > Lovie Smith has been a head coach for 9 years. His overall record is 81-63. Playing in a much tougher division, the Bears have been in double digit wins 4 times during his run there. And outside of his first year with Chicago, he's never dropped below 7 wins. Smith isn't in ideal choice, but he's clearly a better option than Whisenhunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Exactly. No matter who the Bills end up with you can count on 3 things ... 1) Some people will love him, will be amazed at how such a great coach was ever available in the first place, and start making SB reservations. Just look as posts here back when Gailey was first hired to see plenty of examples. 2) Some people will hate him because he obviously sucks, why else would he come to Buffalo. 3) The majority of people will wait and see what develops because this is not their first time at the Buffalo Bills rodeo. I hope that after so many misses that the Bills get a good coaching staff this time around and we aren't in this same place 3 years from now. But I fall into category 3 above. SUPERBOWLLL!!!! (category 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) SUPERBOWLLL!!!! (category 1) Hmmm I guess I forgot category 4 ... SB before a new coach is even hired! Edited January 4, 2013 by CodeMonkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin' Rob Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Leadership, imo, is the thing most overlooked by fans. Coaches that buck the system in some way, and lead in their own unique way seem to have the most success, not the cookie cutter thinkers. Every SB coach from the past 15 years is a dynamic leader with the exception of maybe Mike McCarthy. I don't like any of the retreads accept Lovie. McCoy is ok, as is Horton. Short of hiring Cowher or Gruden, Kelly is the most dynamic leader out their. So in reality my order of preference is Kelly, Lovie, and then Marone/McCoy/Horton/Bengals co-coordinators. Whisenhunt is just so uninspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You fire someone because they didn't fulfill the expectations of the job over a period of time. That's the bottom line - using the phrase "time for a change" is just a polite way is saying they didn't do the job like you wanted them to. So, while the general public thinks you did a good job, in the eyes of the organization, you failed. Lovie was fired because the Bears' front office felt that he failed. Same with Whisenhunt. Both are good coaches who probably didn't deserve to get fired, but that's my opinion. The only opinion that counts is that of the Bears' and Cardinals' front offices/owners. I wish everyone would remember that there are pros and cons to every candidate out there. In the eyes of Brandon, Whaley, & Nix, they have to find the guy who has more pros than cons. I don't disagree with you. I used the term "fine line" because, yes, virtually all firings would be due to unfulfilled expectations. This does not however take into consideration the differing degrees of not fulfilling expectations, nor the differing levels of expectations which would vary from team to team and situation to situation. As highlighting example.... Lovie Smith finishing 10-6 and making the conference final 3 seasons ago(and making a SB 4 seasons prior to that) and getting fired is perhaps quite a different set of variables to Chan Gailey finishing 6-10 and getting fired. Though they were both technically "fired for failing", Chan Gailey failed on pretty much every level conceivable while Lovie Smith failed because his record, though good, was not considered good enough for the Bears. In the last 3 years Whisenhunt had no winning season with an average of 6 wins. I'd be fairly sure that article author James Walker would consider Whisenhunt to have universally failed, unlike coaches like Lovie Smith who have succeeded in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Leadership, imo, is the thing most overlooked by fans. Coaches that buck the system in some way, and lead in their own unique way seem to have the most success, not the cookie cutter thinkers. Every SB coach from the past 15 years is a dynamic leader with the exception of maybe Mike McCarthy. I don't like any of the retreads accept Lovie. McCoy is ok, as is Horton. Short of hiring Cowher or Gruden, Kelly is the most dynamic leader out their. So in reality my order of preference is Kelly, Lovie, and then Marone/McCoy/Horton/Bengals co-coordinators. Whisenhunt is just so uninspiring. The thing I don't like about Lovie is that he seems like a quiet, non-verbal leader. That's fine if you're name is Bill Belichick, but he's the exception IMO. After Jauron and Gailey, I want a dynamic change of approach. I want Kelly or Horton. Someone energetic. Why have Harbaugh and Carroll had so much success so quickly? A big part of it is that charged up their players and franchises with their energy. Today's players who grew up with the constant stimulation of video games, ipods and iphones have a hard time staying interested for a three month stretch if they alone are the ones responsible to stay motivated. I'd really like Smith as my DC, but I just don't like him as a head coach in the modern NFL world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Chan Gailey was fired after he made two straight playoff appearances in his last stint as an NFL HC before the Bills hired him. He was fired as O/C in KC - not HC. I really think Whisenhunt might be the next Bellicheck. He's probably a good coach who struggled with a REALLY bad roster on offense this year. Similarly, Lovie Smith had talent at QB, RB, and WR, but the Bears OL is a horror show. I think his front office was being urealistic thinking they should be a playoff team. Considering the fact that one of the coaches you mentioned will probably be the next Bills Coach, I hope you are right. Edited January 4, 2013 by BRAWNDO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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