Russ Brandon named President/CEO

[Kelly the Dog]

On paper yes, on the track yes. But on film, he was never able to get separation in college, so what kind of an analysis did they do on the guy to think that he could do it in the pros? That's why in hindsight, you have to question their decision making, especially when it comes to WR. Yes, they recognize the deficiency, yet, they draft Easley and Graham, still give valuable roster space to Donald Jones, yet let go of Hagan & didn't think that Danario Alexander is roster worthy. And while Hagan may be listed as a possession guy, he was still more effective than any Bills WR in getting deep separation.

 

And let's not ignore the logic of having a field stretching receiver when your QB has a horrible time delivering the ball beyond 25 yards.

Of course I'm questioning overall their decision making, and I have said repeatedly I wouldn't mind if Buddy Nix was gone and Whaley took over today. I think he has made enough errors in judgment to just retire or have his role diminished. TJ got open deep a bunch of times in college and a bunch of times this year in the relatively few times they even did it.

 

I think TJ sucks, and he dropped all kinds of passes that would have made Fitz look a lot better, and he didn't grasp the offense and he may have cost us a game or two (although it's possible he will get better in the next two years, I'm not counting on it). I would have loved the pick of Russell Wilson over him in the third round and was pulling for it on draft day. I loved Russell Wilson as a prospect and anyone can go do a search on it. I didn't even know who TJ Graham was. The only thing I am defending is the fact that was a completely logical choice for Nix and his team to make, it was addressing a serious team need that COULD HAVE put the offense over the top. They obviously were just wrong about TJ Graham (unless he surprises us, which again I doubt).

[Coach Tuesday]

ONLY in Buffalo does a resume like that not get you fired from your GM position.

 

Except that it did get him fired - you just don't believe that the Bills are phasing him out like they've (basically) said. That's what I meant yesterday about fighting about the future. The Bills have all but said that Nix is being phased out in the near term. You refuse to believe them. You are either going to be proven right or proven wrong in the next few months so for God's sake, stop already...

[eball]

Except that it did get him fired - you just don't believe that the Bills are phasing him out like they've (basically) said. That's what I meant yesterday about fighting about the future. The Bills have all but said that Nix is being phased out in the near term. You refuse to believe them. You are either going to be proven right or proven wrong in the next few months so for God's sake, stop already...

 

Out of curiosity, how many other clubs have their assistant GM (if they even HAVE an assistant GM) traveling along as an integral part of the HC interviewing process? Nix is now just a glorified scout and recruiter -- two things he is very good at.

[Kelly the Dog]

Did Buddy miss the second half of the Bills 2011 season? He didn't see the physical limitations of Fitz's game? He didn't think it would be worth spending a 3rd rounder (a 3rd rounder!!) on a guy who "had a cannon, he was incredibly smart, he had huge hands, he had accuracy short medium and long, he could run, he was a great leader, he was a winner, he played professional sports, he was a film geek, a great personality and everyone loved him"? He thought his team was just a sprinter with questiinable receiving skills away from the playoffs? That having a long ball threat on the roster without a long ball thrower would confuse opponents? It sounds silly in retrospect, but was just as silly then.

 

The main immediate response here to that pick was "huh??". Others chimed in to tell us all how clever Nix was at jumping up to get Graham and how he was thinking outside the box, etc. But now we hear that he was apparently having something of an internal struggle in his mind: he wanted to take this superior QB (Wilson), but he had already convinced himself that Wilson was just an inch or two too short to be worth blowing a third rounder on. He just had to have the kid who was projected to go much later at WR.

 

And the fact that "31 GMs passed on him" isn't really relevant when you consider what each team's needs were. 32 teams aren't in need of a QB in the first 3 rounds every year, obviously. Hey! Why didn't I buy that new Tesla sedan--it's Car of the Year!! Oh, I don't need a new car...

 

If our GM thinks a guy is the perfect prospect for a position of need but trumps his own assessment of the guy because of some arbitrary "rule" (too short), then we need a new GM. Or least one who is familiar with the play of other vertically challenged players like Brees and Vick.

 

I'll modify my position on Buddy: I wouldn't fire him just for the Wilson whiff. It would be for the totality of his work (Chan/Edwards/Wanny-- every coach he has hired in 3 years has been fired), swtiching D's without any coaches who knew how to run it or the players to play it and thus leaving us with deadwood like Troup, and spending tons of money and draft picks on a defense that is still among the worst in the league.

 

ONLY in Buffalo does a resume like that not get you fired from your GM position.

I myself was pulling for Russell Wilson with that pick. I was all over him before the draft. I would have much preferred, at the time and not in retrospect, for the Bills to have taken Wilson over TJ Graham. I was pissed when we didn't take Wilson. The point I have been making is 1] that everyone in the league thought it was a gamble, that his height WOULD matter. Everyone. It's almost inarguable because all of the scouting reports said it and everyone when they talked about him said it and gushed about it. It wasnt just Nix it was everyone. I was basing my own like for Wilson on the fact he had that cannon, and he didn't seem to get his passes blocked, he always found the right lanes, etc. I, like a lot of people, had a stiffie watching the Gruden special on Wilson. He was incredible. And 2] The logic behind picking a speed WR even if he wasnt going to start was a sound logic and not a case of Nix being a total idiot or not knowing QB talent or anything else.

 

But I also thought it was a huge gamble that his height wouldn't matter in the NFL like everyone else.

[Coach Tuesday]

Out of curiosity, how many other clubs have their assistant GM (if they even HAVE an assistant GM) traveling along as an integral part of the HC interviewing process? Nix is now just a glorified scout and recruiter -- two things he is very good at.

 

Exactly. It's blatantly obvious. I cannot believe we're on page 50-something of this thread, where the same people trot out the same tired case for Nix being shown the exit - none of which anyone seems to dispute, including his employer who is showing him the exit. People are getting exactly what they want and they continue to fight for it. Makes no sense at all to me.

[JPS]

Exactly. It's blatantly obvious. I cannot believe we're on page 50-something of this thread, where the same people trot out the same tired case for Nix being shown the exit - none of which anyone seems to dispute, including his employer who is showing him the exit. People are getting exactly what they want and they continue to fight for it. Makes no sense at all to me.

And you have NO fear that Buddy will be running the draft in April?

[Kelly the Dog]

Except that it did get him fired - you just don't believe that the Bills are phasing him out like they've (basically) said. That's what I meant yesterday about fighting about the future. The Bills have all but said that Nix is being phased out in the near term. You refuse to believe them. You are either going to be proven right or proven wrong in the next few months so for God's sake, stop already...

Exactly. It's probably that precise pick that got him (for all intents and purposes) fired more than anything else, because Fitz and Graham failed, individually and together, and Wilson became a surprise star. But it wasn't made in a vacuum, it wasn't an obvious choice, it wasn't close to being a no brainer, etc.

[Mr. WEO]

This, this, oh my god, this.

 

Wilson would be a Levi Brown guy, and we'd be hearing how stupid the Bills were for passing over Cousins. There is ALWAYS something to complain about when you really want to.

 

True, there is always something to complain about. But Pete Carrol was able to figure out immediately that Wilson was his starting QB. Maybe Chan would have seen this too. If not, then certainly next year's HC would have seen it. So I don't agree with you there.

 

Except that it did get him fired - you just don't believe that the Bills are phasing him out like they've (basically) said. That's what I meant yesterday about fighting about the future. The Bills have all but said that Nix is being phased out in the near term. You refuse to believe them. You are either going to be proven right or proven wrong in the next few months so for God's sake, stop already...

 

So far, none of the bolded statements are true. This is what they have said:

 

"I am going to address Buddy’s situation real quick because there has been a lot of incredibly false information that has been reported for some reason. Buddy Nix is our general manager. Buddy Nix will run the football operation much like he has run it for the last three years."

 

If there is a transition, they won;t say when. Obviously Buddy is gone at some point. I'm not sure why they need to pretend he's still GM if he isn't (I mena, he's obviously aware of his status).

[Coach Tuesday]

And you have NO fear that Buddy will be running the draft in April?

 

Not if they're to be believed. He'll have plenty of scouting input, but it sounds like Whaley and Brandon will have significant roles in terms of setting the draft board, designing the strategy, etc., and that Brandon will have final say over the picks. It doesn't guarantee a different or better outcome, but it does equate to change.

[eball]

And you have NO fear that Buddy will be running the draft in April?

 

That's sort of an irrelevant point, since the Bills are going to SAY Buddy's running the draft (as the current GM) and we'll never really know otherwise. Count me in the group who believe Whaley is going to be given much more authority over the selections -- whether publicized or not.

[Kelly the Dog]

True, there is always something to complain about. But Pete Carrol was able to figure out immediately that Wilson was his starting QB. Maybe Chan would have seen this too. If not, then certainly next year's HC would have seen it. So I don't agree with you there.

One thing lost in this discussion, too, is Pete Carroll, however much I hate his entire digestive system, should get tremendous credit for starting Russell Wilson on opening day and keeping with him. I don't think there are more than 2-3 HC in the entire league who would have had the balls to start him, as a rookie, over a high priced FA acquisition and last year's starter who played well under terrible conditions. Carroll recognized early that Wilson was special, and he made a VERY ballsy call hardly anyone would make. Or we may never know how bad of a choice Nix made.

[Mr. WEO]

I myself was pulling for Russell Wilson with that pick. I was all over him before the draft. I would have much preferred, at the time and not in retrospect, for the Bills to have taken Wilson over TJ Graham. I was pissed when we didn't take Wilson. The point I have been making is 1] that everyone in the league thought it was a gamble, that his height WOULD matter. Everyone. It's almost inarguable because all of the scouting reports said it and everyone when they talked about him said it and gushed about it. It wasnt just Nix it was everyone. I was basing my own like for Wilson on the fact he had that cannon, and he didn't seem to get his passes blocked, he always found the right lanes, etc. I, like a lot of people, had a stiffie watching the Gruden special on Wilson. He was incredible. And 2] The logic behind picking a speed WR even if he wasnt going to start was a sound logic and not a case of Nix being a total idiot or not knowing QB talent or anything else.

 

But I also thought it was a huge gamble that his height wouldn't matter in the NFL like everyone else.

 

You thought he would succeed because....you saw him play! That's right!

 

And I would again say bringing in a raw speedster as a situational decoy for a QB who is no threat to go long wasn't a wise decision at the time.

[Kelly the Dog]

Not if they're to be believed. He'll have plenty of scouting input, but it sounds like Whaley and Brandon will have significant roles in terms of setting the draft board, designing the strategy, etc., and that Brandon will have final say over the picks. It doesn't guarantee a different or better outcome, but it does equate to change.

I very much doubt that Brandon has final say in the picks. I actually think (but do not know) that Nix will make the picks. I suppose that it is possible that if Nix REALLY likes Player A and Whaley REALLY likes Player B, then Brandon may play tie-breaker vote. But that's fairly unlikely, and the only way I see him making any kind of real influence.

[JPS]

That's sort of an irrelevant point, since the Bills are going to SAY Buddy's running the draft (as the current GM) and we'll never really know otherwise. Count me in the group who believe Whaley is going to be given much more authority over the selections -- whether publicized or not.

I hope you are right, but it runs contrary to the word of the great and powerful RB. I guess we'll see.

[Kelly the Dog]

You thought he would succeed because....you saw him play! That's right!

 

And I would again say bringing in a raw speedster as a situational decoy for a QB who is no threat to go long wasn't a wise decision at the time.

But I knew it was a gamble. Everyone knew it was a gamble and a big one. Every GM saw him play. He wasn't a sleeper player, he was a sleeper pick.

 

You don't have to catch 50 balls and score 7 TDs as a speedster to be very valuable, regardless of whether your QB can't throw deep well. You just have to do it once in awhile and connect once in awhile. It just didn't work out because of 10 different reasons.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Kelly the Dog

[1B4IDie]

Out of curiosity, how many other clubs have their assistant GM (if they even HAVE an assistant GM) traveling along as an integral part of the HC interviewing process? Nix is now just a glorified scout and recruiter -- two things he is very good at.

 

I would say that many teams would have the coaching candidate talk to the assistant GM, like probably all of them.

 

The Coaching candidate is going to talk to lots of people in the process.

 

Its not 1 hour interview in the back office where 7 applicants are lined up and then the hiring manager pulls the trigger without discussing anyone else's opinion. This isn't hiring a clerk and the 7-11.

 

There are multiple people involved and multiple conversations and multiple opinions involved. The GM weighs through all of the information and uses their experience to make a decision.

 

Whaley's input is going to rank very high and it is unlikely, no matter where Buddy is in the retirement stage, that Buddy would ever hire a candidate that Whaley out and out disapproved of.

 

All this being said, yes there is likely a transition plan to Whaley, could be shortly after the draft; could be after next season.

 

Buddy Nix recruited and hired Whaley obviously he respects his opinion. These decisions are not made in a Buddy Nix vacuum.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Why So Serious?

[thebandit27]

True, there is always something to complain about. But Pete Carrol was able to figure out immediately that Wilson was his starting QB. Maybe Chan would have seen this too. If not, then certainly next year's HC would have seen it. So I don't agree with you there.

 

 

Not exactly, since Flynn started the first 2 pre-season games for Seattle. Carroll announced from the time that they signed Flynn that it would be an open QB competition, and it was.

 

Credit him for being open-minded, but it's not like he drafted Wilson and immediately named him the starter...he gave the kid a shot, and he responded by winning the job. Good coaching indeed, but not some great foresight.

[Mr. WEO]

But I knew it was a gamble. Everyone knew it was a gamble and a big one. Every GM saw him play. He wasn't a sleeper player, he was a sleeper pick.

 

You don't have to catch 50 balls and score 7 TDs as a speedster to be very valuable, regardless of whether your QB can't throw deep well. You just have to do it once in awhile and connect once in awhile. It just didn't work out because of 10 different reasons.

 

My philosophy is that by the third round, the risk of blowing a pick is fairly low-cost wise. Wilson's record as a top QB playing at 2 major programs over 5 years made the decision seem straightforward back then. Wilson was playing behind a huge line his last year in college. He had no problems with regard to his height. He wasn't some marginal talent who was a bit short--he was everything you said he was, talent wise. So the height issue is one made up by GMs who aren't very clever (ours included--it caused him to go against what his instincts otherwise told him, apparently).

 

So the payoff, although not certain, was potentially huge for Wilson who would have had an impact on every offensive play--all at the cost of a 3rd rounder if he busted out. Compare that to Graham, who, by your description of Buddy's reasoning at the time, would have been at best a player who may have provided some benefit "once in while" with Fitz as QB.

 

I might (might!) accept this if the WR in question was someone regarded much better than TJ "people say I can't catch" Graham.

 

Not exactly, since Flynn started the first 2 pre-season games for Seattle. Carroll announced from the time that they signed Flynn that it would be an open QB competition, and it was.

 

Credit him for being open-minded, but it's not like he drafted Wilson and immediately named him the starter...he gave the kid a shot, and he responded by winning the job. Good coaching indeed, but not some great foresight.

 

Come on!! The Seahawks had just signed Flynn--one of the biggest free agents that year to a 26 million dollar deal a few months before. AND Carroll was so sure of Wilson, he cut his previous starter, our own T Jackson, in preseason!

[Kelly the Dog]

My philosophy is that by the third round, the risk of blowing a pick is fairly low-cost wise. Wilson's record as a top QB playing at 2 major programs over 5 years made the decision seem straightforward back then. Wilson was playing behind a huge line his last year in college. He had no problems with regard to his height. He wasn't some marginal talent who was a bit short--he was everything you said he was, talent wise. So the height issue is one made up by GMs who aren't very clever (ours included--it caused him to go against what his instincts otherwise told him, apparently).

 

So the payoff, although not certain, was potentially huge for Wilson who would have had an impact on every offensive play--all at the cost of a 3rd rounder if he busted out. Compare that to Graham, who, by your description of Buddy's reasoning at the time, would have been at best a player who may have provided some benefit "once in while" with Fitz as QB.

 

I might (might!) accept this if the WR in question was someone regarded much better than TJ "people say I can't catch" Graham.

 

 

 

Come on!! The Seahawks had just signed Flynn--one of the biggest free agents that year to a 26 million dollar deal a few months before. AND Carroll was so sure of Wilson, he cut his previous starter, our own T Jackson, in preseason!

No, he traded Jackson AFTER he saw throughout training camp and pre-season, how well Wilson was, and at the very least he was going to be #2. There is no reason to keep Jackson as #3, especially if you can pick up a draft pick for him.

 

As to your first point, they may well have been wrong, but your back-up QB is not affecting every play other than sending in the plays to your starter. Chan was not going to start Wilson over Fitz. It's a good discussion I guess to GUESS whether he would have played him at all the whole season. I know we had a thread on it. I think he would have but not until the season was over.

 

No one is arguing it was a not a mistake in retrospect, and again, I wanted Wilson myself, but the 50/50 hindsight people are displaying here is rather remarkable.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Kelly the Dog

[K-9]

Not exactly, since Flynn started the first 2 pre-season games for Seattle. Carroll announced from the time that they signed Flynn that it would be an open QB competition, and it was.

 

Credit him for being open-minded, but it's not like he drafted Wilson and immediately named him the starter...he gave the kid a shot, and he responded by winning the job. Good coaching indeed, but not some great foresight.

 

I would only add that Flynn and T Jackson made it EXTREMELY easy for Carroll to give the kid his shot. They were horrendous in preseason and training camp. All the credit in the world to Wilson for taking advantage. And even more with how he responded when Carroll was close to benching him after the start of the season.

 

GO BILLS!!!