Russ Brandon named President/CEO

[Coach Tuesday]

Here is an idea: let's continue to debate the future for 100 pages.

 

Or, we could just wait and see how this plays out...

[Jauronimo]

Here is an idea: let's continue to debate the future for 100 pages.

 

Or, we could just wait and see how this plays out...

Applying that logic more broadly, what reason is there to discuss or even to do anything? Time will carry on in a linear fashion regardless.

[Malazan]

It was either Brandon all along or Ralph, who must have ignored all of Brandon's advice in the past?

 

Who else beside Ralph or Russ would you suggest make the decision?

[Mr. WEO]

Are those really the only answers? Think hard and I'm guessing you could imagine a third scenario.

 

The dreaded 3rd scenario! Well, Russ was the CEO and Ralph was the owner calling the shots until now. Everyone says how close the are and have been. Why wouldn't Ralph had heeded any good advice from Brandon all those years? Did he not trust Russ's judgement, or were they both in total agreement?

 

I don't know. I wasn't there in meetings.

 

And you've dodged my question. You seem to think that Brandon will hire a bad coach. So give me names of guys you'd be happy with.

 

You asked who would be in Russ's place, I believe. Since he hasn't picked a new coach, not sure I can cooment on his choice at this point. I was refuting the fallacy that Russ would not be picking the HC at all. Brandon would impress me more if the Bills were not considering guys like Marrone, for starters.

 

I like Jon Gruden but it's silly to persist with that thought. It will be Wisenhunt, because it's the only offer the guy is going to get.

 

Here is an idea: let's continue to debate the future for 100 pages.

 

Or, we could just wait and see how this plays out...

 

Guess you won;t be around for the HC search threads or anything around draft time...

[Jauronimo]

The dreaded 3rd scenario! Well, Russ was the CEO and Ralph was the owner calling the shots until now. Everyone says how close the are and have been. Why wouldn't Ralph had heeded any good advice from Brandon all those years? Did he not trust Russ's judgement, or were they both in total agreement?

You didn't try very hard. You just rephrased your last question and reaffirmed your belief that it was either Russ or Ralph behind these mercurial decisions.

 

First, you'll need to clarify which shots or decisions you're referring to if we're going to discuss, but it would be more productive for you to consider the efficacy of a organization with poorly defined structure, responsibilities and accountability. If you've got 5 leaders, you've got none. Get my drift? Your all or nothing take is overly simplified, in my opinion.

 

Taking this idea a step further, I would say that you don't have to be sold on RB or have any confidence in RB's ability whatsoever to still view this development as progress compared to the previous arrangement. Do you follow?

[Doc]

You asked who would be in Russ's place, I believe. Since he hasn't picked a new coach, not sure I can cooment on his choice at this point. I was refuting the fallacy that Russ would not be picking the HC at all. Brandon would impress me more if the Bills were not considering guys like Marrone, for starters.

 

I like Jon Gruden but it's silly to persist with that thought. It will be Wisenhunt, because it's the only offer the guy is going to get.

Brandon will not be the only one having a say in who is the next HC, and from his presser, he's saying Nix and Whaley will get most of the say. And just because they're interviewing guys, it doesn't mean that they're high on the Bills' lost.

 

As for Gruden, he said he's staying at ESPN. And it's interesting, but most of the talk I've heard about Whisenhunt from NFL experts is that he's a great coaching candidate. But do you have anyone else in mind, or is your choice the one guy who won't be available?

Edited January 2, 2013 by Doc

[NoSaint]

 

 

I actually believe Whaley will have the most say in the HC decision.

But at the end of the day we don't know what is going on at OBD right now. But I'll tell you one thing I'm pretty certain of .... It is a busy place.

 

honest guess: Whaley gets the call but nix and brandon will be HEAVILY involved in the process.

[Malazan]

The dreaded 3rd scenario! Well, Russ was the CEO and Ralph was the owner calling the shots until now. Everyone says how close the are and have been. Why wouldn't Ralph had heeded any good advice from Brandon all those years? Did he not trust Russ's judgement, or were they both in total agreement?

 

This assumes their relationship is incredibly simplistic. You're saying that Ralph and Russ were of one mind. You're ignoring the social norms of interaction with owner of the company. If the owner hates people from Chicago, you aren't going to investigate people from Chicago very deeply. You also tend to get a feel for what they are looking for and want.

 

It is all speculation on Ralph and Russ's relationship. We don't know who made the ultimate decisions or what impact each one had on decisions.

 

 

Again, if Ralph or Russ aren't going to make the decision, who will?

[Kelly the Dog]

Since he hasn't picked a new coach, not sure I can cooment on his choice at this point. I was refuting the fallacy that Russ would not be picking the HC at all. Brandon would impress me more if the Bills were not considering guys like Marrone, for starters.

 

 

There are numerous reasons why The Bills may interview Marrone, although I don't want him either. IF it is Brandon's idea, which we don't know, and he said he is not choosing the coach, it may be simply that he is from Syracuse and he wants to give some national press and stature to Marrone and his program WHILE the Bills brass grill Marrone about Nassib and how his skills will relate to the NFL.

 

Marrone is reportedly being interviewed by four teams. That would sound like he is a very legitimate candidate all by itself.

 

Marrone is said to be highly regarded by both Payton and Bill Parcells, who are reasonably good NFL pedigrees.

 

And we don't even know if the Bills are even interviewing him, but it is not a waste of time, for the QB evaluation alone.

[Mr. WEO]

You didn't try very hard. You just rephrased your last question and reaffirmed your belief that it was either Russ or Ralph behind these mercurial decisions.

 

First, you'll need to clarify which shots or decisions you're referring to if we're going to discuss, but it would be more productive for you to consider the efficacy of a organization with poorly defined structure, responsibilities and accountability. If you've got 5 leaders, you've got none. Get my drift? Your all or nothing take is overly simplified, in my opinion.

 

Taking this idea a step further, I would say that you don't have to be sold on RB or have any confidence in RB's ability whatsoever to still view this development as progress compared to the previous arrangement. Do you follow?

 

Perhaps by blaming everyone, you can blame no one. But I don't see anywhere it is said that anyone but Ralph had final say--for HC and GM selection (those are the only real decisions we are concerned with at this point and germain to past failure). I don't believe major decisions were made without Ralph's consent by a guy like Littman or Overdorf and obviously not Nix. So that leaves Ralph. And his sidekick for many years Brandon.

 

I would again ask: if Brandon is the man with the answers, why didn't he offer him to Ralph, who trusts Russ over all others, before now?

 

As for your last paragraph, I understand what your are saying exactly. In fact, it is the genesis of my (merged) thread. It is the fate of the Bills fan to have to be happy with an alternative that amy not be very palatble, but is "better than what we had before". It seems that is always the best the organization can do.

 

Is it better? If I was more convinced that Russ is the right guy who Ralph held back for these years, then yes--I absolutely say we are much better off. But I see no evidence to convince me.

 

My guess is that if Ralph had passed away on New Year's Day and the Bills quickly announced that Russ Brandon would be taking over all Buffalo Bills major and final decision making, most here would be opining the timing of hiring a "real football guy" torun the team.

 

Conversely, if someone here had suggested weeks ago that their end of the season "big anoouncement" will be that Russ Brandon will be the new king of the Bills with absolute final authority, many here would have greeted such a prediction with "ReallY??".

[Mr. WEO]

Brandon will not be the only one having a say in who is the next HC, and from his presser, he's saying Nix and Whaley will get most of the say. And just because they're interviewing guys, it doesn't mean that they're high on the Bills' lost.

 

As for Gruden, he said he's staying at ESPN. And it's interesting, but most of the talk I've heard about Whisenhunt from NFL experts is that he's a great coaching candidate. But do you have anyone else in mind, or is your choice the one guy who won't be available?

 

I'm not against Whisenhunt outright, but he, like Buddy (and Whaley, I assume), have struggled to address the QB issue. Maybe it's solely on his GM. But the AZ offense blows. I really don't know who is would be best here, honestly. what about you?

 

This assumes their relationship is incredibly simplistic. You're saying that Ralph and Russ were of one mind. You're ignoring the social norms of interaction with owner of the company. If the owner hates people from Chicago, you aren't going to investigate people from Chicago very deeply. You also tend to get a feel for what they are looking for and want.

 

It is all speculation on Ralph and Russ's relationship. We don't know who made the ultimate decisions or what impact each one had on decisions.

 

 

Again, if Ralph or Russ aren't going to make the decision, who will?

 

You are correct. I did not consider the possibility that the owner may harbor irrational hatreds (such as for a geopgraphical location) that may have prevented Brandon from introducing his great ideas to turn the team around.

 

There are numerous reasons why The Bills may interview Marrone, although I don't want him either. IF it is Brandon's idea, which we don't know, and he said he is not choosing the coach, it may be simply that he is from Syracuse and he wants to give some national press and stature to Marrone and his program WHILE the Bills brass grill Marrone about Nassib and how his skills will relate to the NFL.

 

Marrone is reportedly being interviewed by four teams. That would sound like he is a very legitimate candidate all by itself.

 

Marrone is said to be highly regarded by both Payton and Bill Parcells, who are reasonably good NFL pedigrees.

 

And we don't even know if the Bills are even interviewing him, but it is not a waste of time, for the QB evaluation alone.

 

Such a QB evaluation could be done with a phone call, for what they could not get from hours of film study on the guy, the combine and pro day workout. Marrone may be a great or NFL level HC some day, but he has accomplished very little so far in his coaching career for the Bills to consider giving him the opportunity to demonstrate that he doesn't belong in the NFL. And Brandon isn't the Syracuse AD, so no need for him to buff that program.

 

I'm sure Parcells and Payton have plenty of things to say about a former protoge--he's probably a nice young coach. But if Payton had left the Bills, I bet the Saints wouldn't interview Marrone for the job. And guys always toss out good words about guys who have left their services. Jerry Jones famously said his biggest mistake was firing Chan. Of course he didn't mean it.

[Ramius]

You're 100% correct...There is no way while listening to that Presser live, or reading the transcripts now, anyone can come to any other conclusion...Unless you think somehow the Bills are being run like the CIA now and everything concerning the present and future on the Football side is cryptic...

 

The Bills Football side is 100% controlled by Buddy...Only now he has to run everything through the Brandon filter instead of the Ralph filter...And for those who feel Whaley will be in charge soon enough...We'll see...But Brandon was clear Buddy was staying on, there was no timeline given whatsoever for a change, and it was never said that Whaley would be taking over...Implied? Maybe...Said outright? Not at all...What was said plain as day and crystal clear is that Buddy is in charge still and he has 100% of Brandon's confidence...

 

Read it and tell me you can come to any other conclusion...http://www.wkbw.com/...-185373322.html

 

Perhaps you missed the multiple quotes from Whisenhunt where he said he felt he could work great with Brandon and Whaley, without a single mention of Nix. So a coaching candidate basically said Russ and Doug are running the show, yet you still refute this? It seems you're being contrarian just for the sake of being so.

[Mr. WEO]

Perhaps you missed the multiple quotes from Whisenhunt where he said he felt he could work great with Brandon and Whaley, without a single mention of Nix. So a coaching candidate basically said Russ and Doug are running the show, yet you still refute this? It seems you're being contrarian just for the sake of being so.

 

So your are refuting what Brandon clearly, specifically and repeatedly said regarding Nix with what a candidate "basically said" (but didn't actually say)?

[Jauronimo]

Perhaps by blaming everyone, you can blame no one. But I don't see anywhere it is said that anyone but Ralph had final say--for HC and GM selection (those are the only real decisions we are concerned with at this point and germain to past failure). I don't believe major decisions were made without Ralph's consent by a guy like Littman or Overdorf and obviously not Nix. So that leaves Ralph. And his sidekick for many years Brandon.

 

I would again ask: if Brandon is the man with the answers, why didn't he offer him to Ralph, who trusts Russ over all others, before now?

 

As for your last paragraph, I understand what your are saying exactly. In fact, it is the genesis of my (merged) thread. It is the fate of the Bills fan to have to be happy with an alternative that amy not be very palatble, but is "better than what we had before". It seems that is always the best the organization can do.

 

Is it better? If I was more convinced that Russ is the right guy who Ralph held back for these years, then yes--I absolutely say we are much better off. But I see no evidence to convince me.

 

My guess is that if Ralph had passed away on New Year's Day and the Bills quickly announced that Russ Brandon would be taking over all Buffalo Bills major and final decision making, most here would be opining the timing of hiring a "real football guy" torun the team.

 

Conversely, if someone here had suggested weeks ago that their end of the season "big anoouncement" will be that Russ Brandon will be the new king of the Bills with absolute final authority, many here would have greeted such a prediction with "ReallY??".

I don't agree with your first assumption. I recall Nix being pretty involved in selecting Chan as head coach. I do not recall anything since the Levy era which would indicate that Russ was involved in any decisions regarding coaching or personnel. He was frequently involved in a sales capacity, meeting with coaches. Its a matter of pure speculation as to how much advice Russ provided Ralph on football matters.

 

I don't see any evidence that RWS was holding RB back, either. Who says Russ has to have the answers? He stated unequivocally that he will not be involved in football operations. Hopefully we will see some addition by subtraction as RB, to use his favorite word, empowers his staff to do their jobs free from micro management and miserly meddling.

 

You don't have to be happy with Russ Brandon assuming control, but in no way shape or form can increased transparency and clear organizational structure be anything other than a positive development. The results may get worse, but this is a far more effective way to run a franchise. Given that there is a clear organizational structure, I would conjecture that the Bills just improved their chances of attracting a competent head coach.

 

I'm not particularly sold on RB, either. I like what he has had to say thus far, I'm encouraged by the vastly increased accountability and transparency at OBD, and I'm hoping he makes good on his promise to hire the best personnel and get the hell out of the way.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Jauronimo

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm not against Whisenhunt outright, but he, like Buddy (and Whaley, I assume), have struggled to address the QB issue. Maybe it's solely on his GM. But the AZ offense blows. I really don't know who is would be best here, honestly. what about you?

 

 

 

You are correct. I did not consider the possibility that the owner may harbor irrational hatreds (such as for a geopgraphical location) that may have prevented Brandon from introducing his great ideas to turn the team around.

 

 

 

Such a QB evaluation could be done with a phone call, for what they could not get from hours of film study on the guy, the combine and pro day workout. Marrone may be a great or NFL level HC some day, but he has accomplished very little so far in his coaching career for the Bills to consider giving him the opportunity to demonstrate that he doesn't belong in the NFL. And Brandon isn't the Syracuse AD, so no need for him to buff that program.

 

I'm sure Parcells and Payton have plenty of things to say about a former protoge--he's probably a nice young coach. But if Payton had left the Bills, I bet the Saints wouldn't interview Marrone for the job. And guys always toss out good words about guys who have left their services. Jerry Jones famously said his biggest mistake was firing Chan. Of course he didn't mean it.

The first paragraph of your response is untrue. If Marrone is being considered for the job of coach of the Bills he may have something quite different to say about him versus an overall evaluation of him on a phone call. If he thinks he is pretty good but a long shot to be a great pro he is going to talk him up in a phone call to help the kid. He's maybe not going to lie flat out and say he is great if he thinks he is limited, but he is going to do all he can to get the kid drafted as high as he can. IF, however, he may be coach of the team, he may tell the truth, hey the kid is good but we got the most out of him we could, and I'm your guy because that is what I do, get the best out of players.

 

The second paragraph, I think you're disagreeing just to disagree. Yes, guys say good things about their past proteges all the time, but 1] there is zero reason for ten years later for Jerry Jones to say that about Chan when it seems he never admits to mistakes (plus Aikman pretty much said the same thing), and 2] you have zero idea whether he meant it or not.

[Fan in San Diego]

There are numerous reasons why The Bills may interview Marrone, although I don't want him either. IF it is Brandon's idea, which we don't know, and he said he is not choosing the coach, it may be simply that he is from Syracuse and he wants to give some national press and stature to Marrone and his program WHILE the Bills brass grill Marrone about Nassib and how his skills will relate to the NFL.

 

Marrone is reportedly being interviewed by four teams. That would sound like he is a very legitimate candidate all by itself.

 

Marrone is said to be highly regarded by both Payton and Bill Parcells, who are reasonably good NFL pedigrees.

 

And we don't even know if the Bills are even interviewing him, but it is not a waste of time, for the QB evaluation alone.

 

So Parcells is making a living by getting paid to endorse someone as HC material. What a scam.

[Mr. WEO]

I don't agree with your first assumption. I recall Nix being pretty involved in selecting Chan as head coach. I do not recall anything since the Levy era which would indicate that Russ was involved in any decisions regarding coaching or personnel. He was frequently involved in a sales capacity, meeting with coaches. Its a matter of pure speculation as to how much advice Russ provided Ralph on football matters.

 

I don't see any evidence that RWS was holding RB back, either. Who says Russ has to have the answers? He stated unequivocally that he will not be involved in football operations. Hopefully we will see some addition by subtraction as RB, to use his favorite word, empowers his staff to do their jobs free from micro management and miserly meddling.

 

You don't have to be happy with Russ Brandon assuming control, but in no way shape or form can increased transparency and clear organizational structure be anything other than a positive development. The results may get worse, but this is a far more effective way to run a franchise. Given that there is a clear organizational structure, I would conjecture that the Bills just improved their chances of attracting a competent head coach.

 

I'm not particularly sold on RB, either. I like what he has had to say thus far, I'm encouraged by the vastly increased accountability and transparency at OBD, and I'm hoping he makes good on his promise to hire the best personnel and get the hell out of the way.

 

Of course Nix and other "football men" will be heavily involved. But when it comes to thumbs up or thumbs down, Russ's is the only vote that counts. There can't be autonomy in each area to make final decisions. Russ knows this.

 

Transparency hasn't happened yet. But you may be right. But if the results get worse, there is nothing in this "new" arrangement that will be worth being excited about--transparency or not. If it fails it will because nothing had really changed amongst the names of the decision makers.

 

That was what I was getting at---the Clothes have a New Emporer.

[MRW]

I would again ask: if Brandon is the man with the answers, why didn't he offer him to Ralph, who trusts Russ over all others, before now?

Maybe he did. Just because Ralph trusts Brandon, it doesn't mean that he blindly does everything Brandon says. My boss trusts me, but he's still my boss and is ultimately the one who makes decisions about the company. If I were put in charge I would probably run things differently than he does, because we're different people. So Wilson backing off from the football team, no longer calling the coach and GM every week, not stepping in to make decisions based on his whims and gut feelings and personal animosities, is potentially a very big change. And short of a sale, it's the biggest change you're likely to see.

[Mr. WEO]

The first paragraph of your response is untrue. If Marrone is being considered for the job of coach of the Bills he may have something quite different to say about him versus an overall evaluation of him on a phone call. If he thinks he is pretty good but a long shot to be a great pro he is going to talk him up in a phone call to help the kid. He's maybe not going to lie flat out and say he is great if he thinks he is limited, but he is going to do all he can to get the kid drafted as high as he can. IF, however, he may be coach of the team, he may tell the truth, hey the kid is good but we got the most out of him we could, and I'm your guy because that is what I do, get the best out of players.

 

The second paragraph, I think you're disagreeing just to disagree. Yes, guys say good things about their past proteges all the time, but 1] there is zero reason for ten years later for Jerry Jones to say that about Chan when it seems he never admits to mistakes (plus Aikman pretty much said the same thing), and 2] you have zero idea whether he meant it or not.

 

Since both the coach and the QB are mrginal prospects, I don't agree with the hair you just split. It would be a wasted exercise (and hard to imagine scenario anyway).

 

No I don't know what lurks in JJ's dark mind, but based on the disaster that was Chan (and that you will never hear JJ's same words coming from Ralph or any other owner in the future), I should have said JJ was probably drunk and didn't really mean it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Maybe he did. Just because Ralph trusts Brandon, it doesn't mean that he blindly does everything Brandon says. My boss trusts me, but he's still my boss and is ultimately the one who makes decisions about the company. If I were put in charge I would probably run things differently than he does, because we're different people. So Wilson backing off from the football team, no longer calling the coach and GM every week, not stepping in to make decisions based on his whims and gut feelings and personal animosities, is potentially a very big change. And short of a sale, it's the biggest change you're likely to see.

Exactly. Good post. It's something I was trying to point out earlier. This is the world we live in. Ralph owns the teams and there is precious little chance he is going to sell it, or any part of it. There is zero to make anyone believe that to be true except for outlandish unsubstantiated rumor. The very, very best we can hope for right now is for Ralph to step away, not step down. And we cannot hope for Ralph to step away and then bring in Bill Polian to run the entire franchise (if people would want that). This was very likely the best possible scenario.

 

That said, a lot of people would have been a LOT happier had Buddy Nix been let go, too. I understand that and I would not minded that at all either, although I don't think he was a total failure. I totally understand people wishing Brandon making a different decision earlier (although I would guess it was either an order or to carry out Ralph's wishes to keep Nix on a certain amount of time).