Saint Doug Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Let's not forget Levy and Belichick had mediocre first stints at head coach too. I remember when this line of thinking was jammed down our throats when we hired Jauron.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 If we hire Whisenhunt with the full well knowing that Lovie (A proven veteran consistent winner) would love to coach here then I am done with this team. I may be ... it would show they are doing the same thing they always do. They are trying to find another belicheat. They need to do the pragmatic thing right now. Get a proven winner, someone who won even with the with the obstacles that were present in Chi town.
QCity Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Particularly when Fitz had cracked ribs in 2011 and should have been benched. Ahh, the old cracked ribs excuse for Fitz. That one is up there with Lee Evans performing well as a decoy. What was cracked with Fitz this year? Dennis Green was 97-62, .610 in his 10 years as Minnesota's HC. While he was only 16-32 at Arizona he knows how to build a team, and was doing so until his meltdown after a MNF game after losing a 20 point lead in that game. Through his first two years with the team, tho Green only totaled 11 wins with the Cardinals, The Cards still sent players to the Pro bowl and finishing 3rd and 2nd in the NFC West, an improvement over predecessor Dave McGinnis. Nice, with all that talent Green must have really improved the team his 3rd year. Whoops, he went 5-11 again and got canned - way to build that team. You didn't even cherrypick his stats correctly. Bring in Warner? Green was the HC when they drafted Leinart. Well, they had to draft Leinart because Warner was completely ineffective with Green at the helm. Warner did flourish when KW got there though, hmmmm.... Just like Gailey who had most of the stars already on the Bills roster when he got there. Who exactly did Wisenhunt bring in that got him to a SB? Where did those stars come from? I would assume his players came from the same place that Green's players came from, Rod Graves. The only difference is that KW was able to take the personnel that Green had all the way to the Superbowl, while Green was winning 5 games a season (and this is a coach that had a .610 winning % in the previous 10 years as you pointed out). You're completely delusional, but what should I expect from a guy with a Cowher avatar?
4BillsintheBurgh Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Nice, with all that talent Green must have really improved the team his 3rd year. Whoops, he went 5-11 again and got canned - way to build that team. You didn't even cherrypick his stats correctly. Bring in Warner? Green was the HC when they drafted Leinart. Well, they had to draft Leinart because Warner was completely ineffective with Green at the helm. Warner did flourish when KW got there though, hmmmm.... If I remember correctly there was concern the Bidwell's wanted Leinart to sell tickets, and that was not the only concern about owner "meddling". Haven't paid attention lately, but when Wiz went there I thought the situation reminded me of our own from the ownership standpoint. Haven't paid enough attention lately to say it's still the same or if it has gotten better.
Rob's House Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I dunno why, but I have no opinion of Ken Whisenhunt. He went to the Superbowl. Then he floundered with historically bad QBs. Who could do better with the likes of Skelton and Lindley? Let's face it, the next winning season will shock us all. Bill Cowher, that's who.
A Dog Named Kelso Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Bill Cowher, that's who. Lovie Smith could too. Look at the QBs he had! Why is it when a Coach has a bad record with a bad QB its an OK excuse for a bad record. But when a coach has a good record with a bad QB it is claimed "well they only did that because of the Defense", or" they can't find the right OC"? Seems like silly reasoning to me. All things being equal choose the one who has won with bad QBs! Edited January 5, 2013 by cklapka
QCity Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 If I remember correctly there was concern the Bidwell's wanted Leinart to sell tickets, and that was not the only concern about owner "meddling". Haven't paid attention lately, but when Wiz went there I thought the situation reminded me of our own from the ownership standpoint. Haven't paid enough attention lately to say it's still the same or if it has gotten better. I think you're right, I do recall something about the Bidwell's now. I just remember Warner was only average in the Green regime, and the fans started clamoring for a change.
thewildrabbit Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Ahh, the old cracked ribs excuse for Fitz. That one is up there with Lee Evans performing well as a decoy. What was cracked with Fitz this year? Nice, with all that talent Green must have really improved the team his 3rd year. Whoops, he went 5-11 again and got canned - way to build that team. You didn't even cherrypick his stats correctly. Bring in Warner? Green was the HC when they drafted Leinart. Well, they had to draft Leinart because Warner was completely ineffective with Green at the helm. Warner did flourish when KW got there though, hmmmm.... I would assume his players came from the same place that Green's players came from, Rod Graves. The only difference is that KW was able to take the personnel that Green had all the way to the Superbowl, while Green was winning 5 games a season (and this is a coach that had a .610 winning % in the previous 10 years as you pointed out). You're completely delusional, but what should I expect from a guy with a Cowher avatar? Talk about cherry picking! Answer the questions! Where are all the offensive stars that Ken Wisenhunt brought in, groomed or coached up? NAME ONE! QB's Matt Leinart, FA Derak Anderson, FA Max Hall, drafted John Skelton, drafted Ryan Lindley, all sucked under Wis. Gailey sucks, and he did a better job because at least he chose RB CJ Spiller! Where are the QB's Ken Wisenhunt, this supposed offensive mind coached up to greatness? Besides Kurt Warner who already had a SB under his belt. Gailey beats Wiz with 6-10 vs 5-11. Losing the last 11 of 12. That Cardinal offense was just downright pathetic this season. Like I said, Wisenhunt was lucky that Werner was already on the team because he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without him. Plus, It could have been OC Todd Haley helped for their offensive success rather then just Wisenhunt. Look at the last 3 years without Haley. Wis called his own plays and setup that offense for 2 years, and that didn't work so he hired OC Mike Miller. Arizona was dead last in the NFL in total offense this year! Oh yea, a great offensive mind. Wisenhunt sucks worse then Gailey!
Ozymandius Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Like I said, Wisenhunt was lucky that Werner was already on the team because he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without him. Plus, It could have been OC Todd Haley helped for their offensive success rather then just Wisenhunt. Look at the last 3 years without Haley. Wis called his own plays and setup that offense for 2 years, and that didn't work so he hired OC Mike Miller. Warner did nothing for Arizona for two years before Whisenhunt arrived. It was the combination of Warner and Whisenhunt that revived Warner's career and Arizona's franchise. Obviously the Bills need to find a good QB for Whisenhunt. But that would be true with any coaching hire.
QCity Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Where are all the offensive stars that Ken Wisenhunt brought in, groomed or coached up? NAME ONE! QB's Matt Leinart, FA Derak Anderson, FA Max Hall, drafted John Skelton, drafted Ryan Lindley, all sucked under Wis. He didn't bring anyone in. That was the job of the GM, Rod Graves, just as it was when Green was HC. Why do you not understand this? Yes - Leinart, Anderson, Hall, Skelton, Lindley all sucked under Wis. Guess what? They would suck under Vince Lombardi. This is the entire point - the man had absolutely nothing to work with. As Ozymandius said, when he did have Warner at QB, he flourished, which is something that Green could never get Warner to do. As a matter of fact, he took the entire team Green had (that Rod Graves built) and led them to an 8-8 record. The next year, Superbowl. Gailey beats Wiz with 6-10 vs 5-11. Wisenhunt sucks worse then Gailey! I think this discussion with you has run its course. I can't even begin to explain how simplistic it is to look at 2 coaching records (6-10 and 5-11), point at one and say, "this coach is better."
Captain Hindsight Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Bill Cowher, that's who. If any coach could win with a QB attempting 30 throws and totaling 75 yards Id be amazed.
thewildrabbit Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) He didn't bring anyone in. That was the job of the GM, Rod Graves, just as it was when Green was HC. Why do you not understand this? Yes - Leinart, Anderson, Hall, Skelton, Lindley all sucked under Wis. Guess what? They would suck under Vince Lombardi. This is the entire point - the man had absolutely nothing to work with. As Ozymandius said, when he did have Warner at QB, he flourished, which is something that Green could never get Warner to do. As a matter of fact, he took the entire team Green had (that Rod Graves built) and led them to an 8-8 record. The next year, Superbowl. I think this discussion with you has run its course. I can't even begin to explain how simplistic it is to look at 2 coaching records (6-10 and 5-11), point at one and say, "this coach is better." How do I get thru to you? The GM of a team doesn't go to the HC and get his opinion, and input on players to draft at all? He just chooses whomever he wants and thats it? If you think that you are indeed a total fool. How do we know that Todd Haley, (the teams OC when they went to the SB) didn't have more to do with resurrecting Kurt Warner then Wisenhunt did? Look what happened to the Arizona offense after Haley left to be the HC in KC. You STILL didn't answer the question! Where are all the offensive stars brought in, groomed or coached up by Ken Wisenhunt? Ken Wisenhunt is supposedly an offensive minded HC as he was a OC with the Steelers before becoming HC of the Cards. What does it tell you that the Arizona Cardinals were DEAD LAST in the NFL this season on offense! If any coach could win with a QB attempting 30 throws and totaling 75 yards Id be amazed. Would you be amazed if a QB had 18 attempts for 64 yards and his team won a playoff game on the road? Edited January 5, 2013 by FeartheLosing
RussellDopeland Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 When I think of the Bills hiring this guy I cringe. In all honesty, I'd rather they rehired Gailey or hired Norv Turner instead. It's that bad! Plus, Whisenhunt is a cadavar on the sidelines, like our old friend Dickie J. Can we actually hire a coach with personality and passion?!? Whisenhunt has the personality of a Ken doll. Plus, didn't we actually beat this joker with Gailey on the sidelines? Furthermore, didn't Whisenhunt's team roll over and play dead on him (getting lambasted 58-0 by Seattle)? Russ would have an impossible time selling this retread to Bills fans.
Saint Doug Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Geez, after reading through all this, it looks like Whisenhunt is dead in the water without an arguable future HOF QB to run his offense. We don't have that and history and probability argues against us having one of these in the near future. I know that Nix and Whaley are probably pining away for his services (it seems like GMs prefer the "safer" pick rather than the best person for the job). That said, I think Russ would block this sort of hire. Russ knows the fans have read this chapter before. I dunno, the way this coaching search is shaping up, I think many of us on here are silently wishing we never fired Chan, but just Wanstanche. Edited January 5, 2013 by kas23
mannc Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 I dunno, the way this coaching search is shaping up, I think many of us on here are silently wishing we never fired Chan, but just Wanstanche. Wanna bet?
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted January 5, 2013 Posted January 5, 2013 Wanna bet? i just hope we get so done with animation on sideline imam tired of walking dead coaches
Boatdrinks Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 Ken Wisenhunt is supposedly an offensive minded HC as he was a OC with the Steelers before becoming HC of the Cards. What does it tell you that the Arizona Cardinals were DEAD LAST in the NFL this season on offense! It tells me that Wiz had a good QB and great OL's to work with and is clearly a terrible coach.
mob16151 Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 I uh think going to a superbowl with the ARIZONA FREAKING CARDINALS is pretty amazing. Sign me up. And people who've been watching football for 20 plus years should get what im saying here.
purple haze Posted January 6, 2013 Posted January 6, 2013 ha ha ha. welcome to your Buffalo Bills... I love how bills fans don't realize how bad their franchise looks to the rest of the league... this is not a place you want to be ... where careers go to die.... unless you have ties to the area or are desperate to get back in the league as a HC or it is the only job left on the board (Jauron, Gailey), you steer clear of this nightmare. Read this. Scroll down to where he talks about the Bills and how Russ and Whaley are viewed around the league. Very different from what you believe: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000122460/article/andy-reid-gives-kansas-city-chiefs-a-proven-winner
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