Fan in San Diego Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 FWIW, Jim Harbaugh was the QB coach for Gruden/Gannon for those two years. I've been a major critic of Gruden but in fairness, has a team been as badly jobbed as his team was when the officials invoked the "Tuck Rule" when the Raiders were beating New England in the 4th quarter of that snowy game in Foxboro? So I gotta give props to Gruden for taking teams far into the playoffs. I agree he is a way better coach than what we have had for a long time.
gumby Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 I agree he is a way better coach than what we have had for a long time. If the Bills somehow got Gruden it would be their best coaching hire since Chuck Knox.
Wing Man Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 If the Bills somehow got Gruden it would be their best coaching hire since Chuck Knox. Knox was the rock solid believer in the run, run, pass, kick offense. He did, however, get the Bills to the playoffs. Still, I seem to remember this Levy guy who was pretty good.
gumby Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 Knox was the rock solid believer in the run, run, pass, kick offense. He did, however, get the Bills to the playoffs. Still, I seem to remember this Levy guy who was pretty good. No...no he wasn't. He was a failed HC at KC who was out of the league for a while before the Bills tapped him.
Mr. WEO Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 No problem. But hey for full disclosure on the pompous ham known as Gruden. The team he won a super bowl with was built by Gungy. He gutted it after, and rightfully earned the nickname in both the media and some NFL circles as "the quarterback killer" Of course many credit him for Rich Gannon's late bloom . Yeah, Gruden really killed the careers of Griese (not Bob), Simms (not Phil) and Gradkowski.....
ny33 Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 Mario was long gone in January. There were only so many 43 teams, even fewer with cap space for a guy like him. We were a pretty safe bet to atleast take a shot. This board was stuck on Ralph is cheap but it was pretty strongly possible, even prior to January. Atlanta wouldn't have paid that much for a D.E. (they generally ignore the position) and didn't have much cap space. We'll never know, but my theory is that the only other team with space and interest was Cincinnati.
BrooklynBills Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 (edited) FWIW, Jim Harbaugh was the QB coach for Gruden/Gannon for those two years. Actually, Jim Harbaugh was an offensive assistant in 2002 and QB coach in 2003. His QB coach in 2002, the year he won the MVP was Marc Trestman. Man, must be nice to be able to assemble a talented coaching staff. Edit: Actually, Trestman was also the OC in 2002 so he may have been QB coach in name only and in fact may have deferred much of the QB coaching to Harbaugh. My point is more about the quality of coaches you need to be a good team. Edited December 30, 2012 by BrooklynBills
Coach Tuesday Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 I see Gruden going to Philly and Reid going to San Diego. Mike McCoy seems like a perfect Jerry Richardson hire. Josh McDaniels will go to Cleveland. Tennessee and Arizona will have openings. Really at a loss with figuring out how the Bills hire someone qualified, here.
vincec Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 No...no he wasn't. He was a failed HC at KC who was out of the league for a while before the Bills tapped him. Bill Belichick was a failed head coachin Cleveland before the Pats tapped him. Mike Shanahan was a failed head coach in LA before the Broncos tapped him. When you don't have a QB, you are going to be a failed head coach 9 times out of 10.
Concrete Buffalo Feet Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 Hopefully what will help us in our coaching search this time around is that we do have some good pieces in place to build around. CJ, Mario, Kyle, Darius, Byrd, Stevie, decent o-line. Who did we have that was attractive to a would be coach looking in last time, beast mode and Kyle?
RealityCheck Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 I try not to weigh in on these types of threads since anything is possible at this point. Your guess is as good as mine. But the one thing that I always liked about Gruden is the versatility of his attack based on his talent and his aggressiveness in finding a QB that he can win with. He ran a wicked short passing game with the screen game in place of the run with the Raiders and a run heavy attack with the Bucs when QB became a weak position for them. Above all else, he knows that without consistent excellence at the QB position that you just can't win in this league. The guy is obsessed with football and I find it hard to believe that he is not working on x's and o's in private in lieu of the day that he gets another opportunity. My experience in heavy construction management leads me to want a guy with his intensity and tenacity combined with age and body of work to be a leader of men. Unfortunately for me I am a huge Bills homer and have hope that at least by accident this team will turn it around. No more player's coaches either. Some players should hate the coach. In my experience the workers that hated me were guys that hurt the crew and got bounced or got rode hard until they quit while the guys that stayed happened to be very good at their jobs and we got along great. The fact that there is little animosity in the locker room towards the coaching staff at this point in time in the face of genuine feel it in your bones failure speaks volumes to me. The absence of pressure from above gives you what we have today. The culture of losing has claimed another 3 years apparently. JMO. FWIW, who ever takes over this team, it won't matter without the RIGHT QB to lead the charge. If they chose unwisely, it could lead to another decade of the same s***, but different owner, coach, parking attendant, etc.
BrooklynBills Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 Bill Belichick was a failed head coachin Cleveland before the Pats tapped him. Mike Shanahan was a failed head coach in LA before the Broncos tapped him. When you don't have a QB, you are going to be a failed head coach 9 times out of 10. You can't pick out the two guys who seem to be exceptions to the rule to prove your point. Mike Shanahan was fired from the Raiders for reasons that have nothing to do with his coaching ability. The truth is he got less than two years with Raiders and his firing is widely viewed as a huge mistake and one of the all-time ego-driven blunders of Al Davis. Bill Belicheck was fired from Cleveland because Art Modell moved the team to Baltimore and basically cleaned house. He re-built a terrible Browns team in the early 90's before modern free agency and had them in the playoffs in 3 years and won a wild card game against the Patriots. The following year the Browns were talked about as a team that could win the Super Bowl. Modell announced that the team was moving to Baltimore and it basically ended the Browns season at the midpoint. The "Belicheck is a failed HC" myth is not one grounded in reality and I would challenge you to find any articles from that time or the time of his hiring in New England that labeled him as a "re-tread" or "failure." Both of these guys were not fired from there jobs because they were viewed as bad coaches and didn't produce wins over a period of time. You need to look at the circumstances surrounding their firing to get a sense of what you are getting as a coach. Their is a difference between getting fired because you didn't produce enough wins over a certain period of time and getting fired because of things happening behind the scenes, just as there is a difference for getting fired because you could get your team to the next level (a la Tom Coughlin with the Jaguars or Tony Dungy with the Bucs). No one considered Tom Coughlin or Tony Dungy failed head coaches because they were fired from there jobs. If you really look at it, you have two kinds of HCs that are successful on their 2nd team: 1. A guy who has displayed the clear ability to handle the job well and be successful(i.e multiple division titles, Super Bowl app, several playoff years). Examples include Tom Coughlin, Dick Vermeil, Bill Belicheck, Tony Dungy, Marv Levy, Chuck Knox, Bill Parcells, Marty Schottenheimer, Don Shula, Mike Holmgren. Guys who fall into this category that were not successful with their 2nd team include Sam Wyche, Jimmy Johnson(kind of a grey area), Dennis Green. These guys tend to be out of work for a little or no time before they are picked back up by another team. Guys who IMO who can be successful with their 2nd team: Jeff Fisher, Andy Reid(if he gets fired), Brian Billick 2. A guy who displayed coaching talent before his first job, was unsuccessful in that job but was not a complete and utter failure, and (this is most important) who went on to something great in another position(albeit in college or as a coordinator) between his first and second job. Examples include Mike Shanahan, Pete Carroll. Guys who fit this mold but failed in there 2nd job: Ray Rhodes, Dom Capers, Dennis Erickson. Guys who IMO can be successful if given a 2nd chance: Josh McDaniels, Nick Saban, Jim Caldwell, Rex Ryan(if fired)
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 30, 2012 Posted December 30, 2012 Once coaches win a Super Bowl they seem to lose their edge, some drastically. I can think of few exceptions. I'd want the guy who is hungry to get there not complacent that they've been there.
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