Deadspin: Bills Fleecing Taxpayers

[Maddog69]

That's $110 I'd rather have in my pocket if I lived in Erie county and did not give a **** about the Bills.

Particularly since the Bills are the only thing it is used for, and only for 10 (or less) games per year. Crazy.

Wrong

It is used for concert and other event.

I know they have "the Battle of the Bands" every year. They've had Paintball tournaments, they host High school football games and lacrosse games. They could definitely do a lot more with it, especially if it had a dome of other cover structure, but it does get used for things other than Bills games. I'm looking forward to the restaurant and store. I hope they are open all year round, I would love to take my kids there. I wish they did lockeroom tours and had a Bills hall of fame. My 10yr old son love to hear about the glory days of the Bills. He says to me "I wish the Bills were good like they were when you were younger".

[atlbillsfan1975]

SOME taxpayers are getting screwed. The state kicks in $123 million, not much per NYS taxpayer. Erie county kicks in $103 million, per taxpayer that is a lot of $$$.

How many taxpayers are there in Erie County?

Honest question. And i do not believe you pay your share all at once on the upcoming tax year. So it would be amortized out over the 7 or 10 years, i think.

I am sure some one on here is an accountant and could provide some insight into this. Thanks

[Like A Mofo]

Truth hurts doesn't it?

 

Amazing how some here will still somehow justify the fleecing of Ralph and the Cronies. Simply amazes me.

[Big Turk]

Truth hurts doesn't it?

 

Amazing how some here will still somehow justify the fleecing of Ralph and the Cronies. Simply amazes me.

 

In business its called Opportunity Cost....the benefits of making one decision and the cost you incur for not making a different decision. Clearly more people think keeping the Bills here trump the opportunity cost of them leaving.

 

[Joe W]

Wrong

It is used for concert and other event.

I know they have "the Battle of the Bands" every year. They've had Paintball tournaments, they host High school football games and lacrosse games. They could definitely do a lot more with it, especially if it had a dome of other cover structure, but it does get used for things other than Bills games. I'm looking forward to the restaurant and store. I hope they are open all year round, I would love to take my kids there. I wish they did lockeroom tours and had a Bills hall of fame. My 10yr old son love to hear about the glory days of the Bills. He says to me "I wish the Bills were good like they were when you were younger".

 

It hasnt been used for a concert in years. the MOU didnt adress who would get the revenue from Concerts/ Winter Classic etc. The Bills received that $ in the previous agreement, it would be outrageous if they received it in this agreement.

[Orton's Arm]

You used the word extra, not me.

 

The team signed a lease to stay in WNY. If they hadn't, they could've moved so that WAS an alternative. Now you have to compare the the tax revenue for the next seven years to the amount WNY is paying over that same time period.

 

New York taxes income at roughly 9%. The Bills have a payroll of roughly $79M. So in one year, that's roughly $7M in tax revenue and over seven years, is roughly $50M (or higher, as salaries continue to rise). (I know that's not an exact number -- they only pay taxes to NY on the home games, but opponents pay taxes on games in WNY, so we'll call it a wash).

 

http://www.sportscit...bills-salaries/

 

That doesn't count the extra property tax revenue from players who live here, sales tax revenue from players who shop here, hotel taxes from visiting players, etc, etc, etc. Plus, I'm not sure who gets parking and concession revenues - I'm sure the Bills get some, but probably not 100%; anyone know?

 

On top of that, there are other part time and full time jobs to support the stadium, concession stands, restaurants, parking attendants, etc, around the area. I remember reading about financial hardships people had the last time the NHL had a lockout because nobody was going to the stadium. All of those people who are working are also paying taxes.

 

I have no idea if it's a net zero proposition in our case, but it's hardly "fleecing" the city/state. Honestly, I think most people would see it as a pretty good deal. (I know people in MN do).

 

You make excellent points.

 

A city which won't use tax money to help its team risks losing that team to some other city which will. Unfortunately, that's how the game is played.

 

The problem with all this is that public tax money is flowing to millionaires (the players) and billionaires (the owners). There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that such a situation should be accepted. But the way to stop this is not (as the author seems to suppose) at the local or state level. Nor are downstate voters--like the author of the article--in any position to complain about upstate siphoning off too much money.

 

The way to solve this is at the federal level. Part of the NFL's anti-trust exemption should include a stipulation that all NFL teams are prohibited from accepting public funding, loans from governments, etc. This would cut back on the amount of money flowing into the NFL (a good thing), reduce government spending (a good thing), and would mean lower player salaries and smaller profits for owners (both good).

[PromoTheRobot]

This is a travesty. Quick! Get on the phone with L.A. and see if they will take this white elephant off our hands. Once the Bills are gone we can use the money we save to demolish Ralph Wilson Stadium. Probably only $70-80 million.  Money well spent, I say.

 

PTR

[CodeMonkey]

Wrong

It is used for concert and other event.

I know they have "the Battle of the Bands" every year. They've had Paintball tournaments, they host High school football games and lacrosse games. They could definitely do a lot more with it, especially if it had a dome of other cover structure, but it does get used for things other than Bills games. I'm looking forward to the restaurant and store. I hope they are open all year round, I would love to take my kids there. I wish they did lockeroom tours and had a Bills hall of fame. My 10yr old son love to hear about the glory days of the Bills. He says to me "I wish the Bills were good like they were when you were younger".

I did not know they did those other things. But even so, they are minor. I mean how many people go to a HS football or lacrosse game, or a paintball tournament.

The Bills games are the only *significant* events held at the stadium.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I did not know they did those other things. But even so, they are minor. I mean how many people go to a HS football or lacrosse game, or a paintball tournament.

The Bills games are the only *significant* events held at the stadium.

 

I got wasted @ the 1987 Dead concert there... I think I still am!

[Mr. WEO]

Bravo. it actually got a real laugh.

 

Tough crowd!

[Mr. WEO]

1.) Can you name the "other rich people" who would line up to buy the property and pay the same taxes? And if these fantasy people existed, wouldnt they already own expensive homes and pay high taxes? We don;t have a lot of homeless rich people in Buffalo

2.) Do some research, the bars and restaurants around the stadium make most of their revenue on game days just as the bars and restaurants around the Arena downtown make their revenue on game nights. I guess common sense isnt too common on this board

3.) The cities reportedly interested in an NFL team - LA, Santa Clara, Portland, San Antonio, OK City, Toronto, London, Mexico City. Those are the ones I can think of. Since every other city with a team has paid to build stadiums and keep their teams, it stands to reason than any city wanting a team would be willing to do the same. I used the Baltimore example earlier. They paid a ton to get the Browns to leave Cleveland and become the Ravens

 

Coomon sense cannot be found in your post.

 

If you are claiming that these businesses make nearly all of their annual revenue over the course of 8 days why should I have to do my homework? The onus is on you to back up this claim.

 

"Fantasy people"?? For real? Do you really think every Bill who has lived in the Buffalo area had his house built specifically for him and then the house was demolished after they player left town? You must believe this. You certainly cannot comprehend that a Bill may actually buy his mansion from one rich person and then sell it to another when he exits Buffalo. And are you also saying all the top end houses are exclusively owned by pro sports stars and existing "rich people" who will never be able to sell their houses because there are no "fantasy people" to replace them?

 

I haven't lived in Buffalo for many years, but there must be huge tracts of mansions that have been abandoned by their owners after languishing on the market for years.

 

You initially claimed there were other cities "willing" to provide stadiums for an NFL team, as proof, you give a list of cities "reported" to be intersted in getting an NFL team. Well, I bet there are 50 more cities in the good ol' USA that would be very interested in having their very own NFL team, so what? None of them is going to build a stadium for the Bills ("LA" isn't building a stadium, a developer may build one though).

 

Baltimore desperately wanted the return of an NFL team that they lost. And in 1998, they paid $220 million to build the stadium. Add a billion to that number and tell me how interested "Santa Clara" is interested in signing up.

[CodeMonkey]

2.) Do some research, the bars and restaurants around the stadium make most of their revenue on game days just as the bars and restaurants around the Arena downtown make their revenue on game nights. I guess common sense isnt too common on this board

If you are claiming that these businesses make nearly all of their annual revenue over the course of 8 days why should I have to do my homework? The onus is on you to back up this claim.

Yeah I never understood how people could believe businesses (not counting people turning their yards into parking lots, but bars and restaurants etc.) can make most, or even a significant percentage, of their annual income in 8 days of the year and be able to stay in business. Unless the establishment is only open those 8 days a year in the first place.

 

Businesses around the arena are a lot different. The sabres have 41 home games per year. Plus the arena has other teams, numerous concerts and other events as well. There is no comparison to be made about businesses around the arena and the ones around the Ralph.

Edited December 28, 2012 by CodeMonkey

[Best Player Available]

It hasnt been used for a concert in years. the MOU didnt adress who would get the revenue from Concerts/ Winter Classic etc. The Bills received that $ in the previous agreement, it would be outrageous if they received it in this agreement.

There is not a big touring act on the planet, that would do a show in the ralph. Hasn't been a show in years. The stones haven't played their since 84 I believe. The reason? "It's the economy stupid" Why play there when they can sellout in other rust belt cities or TO.

The ralph is alive and well for 7 regular season and 1 or 2 pre-season games a year. Anything else doesn't even pay for operational costs or in other words they cannot even break even for the event.

[bbb]

The Stones didn't even tour in '84. Last time they were here was '97.

[CardinalScotts]

stop reading dead spin would be your best move....just for life in general

[T master]

There would be a lot more money to go around if it wasn't spent on the Yankees , Mets & Nets stadiums ... Good thing we got there before the Rangers , Islanders , & Knicks had to have a new place to play but there again that would be OK b/c the money would be being dumped into the black hole Oh i'm sorry thats not politically correct NYC AHH Thats better !!

 

Go Bills get what you can while you can !!!!

[T master]

There would be a lot more money to go around if it wasn't spent on the Yankees , Mets & Nets stadiums ... Good thing we got there before the Rangers , Islanders , & Knicks had to have a new place to play but there again that would be OK b/c the money would be being dumped into the black hole Oh i'm sorry thats not politically correct NYC AHH Thats better !!

 

Go Bills get what you can while you can !!!!

[rafter]

I'm Canadian and come to several games a year. I come early, always do some shopping and I know I'm not alone. There is no way to tell what the true economic impact of the Bills is in the area, but I'm sure it's a capital investment for the County and State. This article appears to be written by nothing more then victimhood and entitlement mentalities.

 

This is HUGE. The influx of cash from Canada cannot be discounted. I will always welcome Canadian fans here, and my experience with them has always been positive.

[tombstone56]

HAVE A QUESTION , IS IT PLAGERISM WHEN A RADIO DJ BASICALLY QUOTES THIS BOARD FOR HIS SHOW? SCHOOP AND GR ARE DOING IT ALMOST DAILY NOW!

[Doc]

Stop the whining. Erie County and NYS got off cheap when it came to the Bills, the only true NYS team.