Average of 85 gun deaths each day in US

[birdog1960]

No you don't. Unless you're undergoing some kind of actual live ammo training most of the time your weapon is secured in the armory. It's actually illegal to carry personal weapons on a military base. Only MP's carry fulltime.

and why is that? does the military think it dangerous for folks well trained with firearms and gun safety to possess them unsupervised?

[3rdnlng]

Has nothing to do with what his profession was. Has everything to do with the ridiculously shortsighted (and false) statement that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

 

Clearly did not work that way in Fort Hood or Columbine. But carry on.

 

The other ball washer was saying that armed guards wouldn't help the situation (FT. Hood) because it was an armed guard that did the shooting. Obviously that ball washer was wrong. Hasan was stopped by a good guy with a gun. The Columbine killers killed themselves before a good guy with a gun could get them. So, you are clearly wrong with your facts and should probably quit arguing your losing position, or come right out and state that you are once again practicing your creative writing skills.

[birdog1960]

The other ball washer was saying that armed guards wouldn't help the situation (FT. Hood) because it was an armed guard that did the shooting. Obviously that ball washer was wrong. Hasan was stopped by a good guy with a gun. The Columbine killers killed themselves before a good guy with a gun could get them. So, you are clearly wrong with your facts and should probably quit arguing your losing position, or come right out and state that you are once again practicing your creative writing skills.

one of the killers at columbine was shot at by one of the good guys ( a sheriffs deputy) in a parking lot. did not work. he missed.

[CosmicBills]

The other ball washer was saying that armed guards wouldn't help the situation (FT. Hood) because it was an armed guard that did the shooting. Obviously that ball washer was wrong. Hasan was stopped by a good guy with a gun. The Columbine killers killed themselves before a good guy with a gun could get them. So, you are clearly wrong with your facts and should probably quit arguing your losing position, or come right out and state that you are once again practicing your creative writing skills.

... Hasan wasn't killed until there were over 20 casualties. And, the armed guard in the school (the whole plan by the NRA -- I mean GUN LOBBY) couldn't stop the slaughter.

 

So, who's practicing creative writing here? Certainly not I.

[birdog1960]

... Hasan wasn't killed until there were over 20 casualties. And, the armed guard in the school (the whole plan by the NRA -- I mean GUN LOBBY) couldn't stop the slaughter.

 

So, who's practicing creative writing here? Certainly not I.

at the risk of being labelled a ball washer, you got that right: https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2011/04/13-2

[Cinga]

one of the killers at columbine was shot at by one of the good guys ( a sheriffs deputy) in a parking lot. did not work. he missed.

 

good argument to teach better gun control, that way, he wouldn't have missed

[3rdnlng]

... Hasan wasn't killed until there were over 20 casualties. And, the armed guard in the school (the whole plan by the NRA -- I mean GUN LOBBY) couldn't stop the slaughter.

 

So, who's practicing creative writing here? Certainly not I.

 

 

Who is your fact checker? Hasan killed 13 and injured 29. Since I don't think they try dead people, he's still alive and will be standing trial, I think without a beard. I wonder how many more unarmed people he would have shot if a "good guy" didn't incapacitate him? You are right though, your writing isn't very creative, just wrong.

[CosmicBills]

Who is your fact checker? Hasan killed 13 and injured 29. Since I don't think they try dead people, he's still alive and will be standing trial, I think without a beard. I wonder how many more unarmed people he would have shot if a "good guy" didn't incapacitate him? You are right though, your writing isn't very creative, just wrong.

Typing on the run. Good catch.

 

Doesn't change the fact you're letting a lobby group form your argument for you. Think of their motives. More guns = more money for them. They pass the buck to everyone but themselves.

 

!@#$ the NRA. !@#$ their stupid plan. It won't work. It's never worked in the past and won't work in the future. It's time for a grownup conversation about gun control (not banning guns, control). And that simply won't happen so long as the NRA has a death grip on DC's nuts. Or yours.

 

Think for yourself. You'll live longer.

Edited December 24, 2012 by tgreg99

[3rdnlng]

Typing on the run. Good catch.

 

Doesn't change the fact you're letting a lobby group form your argument for you. Think of their motives. More guns = more money for them. They pass the buck to everyone but themselves.

 

!@#$ the NRA. !@#$ their stupid plan. It won't work. It's never worked in the past and won't work in the future. It's time for a grownup conversation about gun control (not banning guns, control). And that simply won't happen so long as the NRA has a death grip on DC's nuts. Or yours.

 

Think for yourself. You'll live longer.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm for armed guards in school. I do know that I'm not for gun free zones that are really only gun free zones for the good guys. Making certain institutions "gun free" doesn't take in the unintended consequences of doing so. BTW, I'm not for allowing fully automatic weapons, the NRA doesn't have a hold of my balls, and since the Mayan thingy not working out as planned my early retirement isn't looking like the smartest move, so living longer isn't as attractive as it once was.

[meazza]

 

Typing on the run. Good catch.

 

Doesn't change the fact you're letting a lobby group form your argument for you. Think of their motives. More guns = more money for them. They pass the buck to everyone but themselves.

 

!@#$ the NRA. !@#$ their stupid plan. It won't work. It's never worked in the past and won't work in the future. It's time for a grownup conversation about gun control (not banning guns, control). And that simply won't happen so long as the NRA has a death grip on DC's nuts. Or yours.

 

Think for yourself. You'll live longer.

 

Want to know of a country that has machine guns and armed personnel pretty much everywhere? Israel functions in that method. You want to take out shooters during a slaughter, you increase your odds of stopping the killer if someone is armed. That doesn't mean I agree with that. I'm nostalgic of the days where I grew up where this wasn't something to worry about.

 

 

[We Come In Peace]

 

 

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm for armed guards in school. I do know that I'm not for gun free zones that are really only gun free zones for the good guys. Making certain institutions "gun free" doesn't take in the unintended consequences of doing so. BTW, I'm not for allowing fully automatic weapons, the NRA doesn't have a hold of my balls, and since the Mayan thingy not working out as planned my early retirement isn't looking like the smartest move, so living longer isn't as attractive as it once was.

Just a delay with the hyper drive.

[3rdnlng]

Want to know of a country that has machine guns and armed personnel pretty much everywhere? Israel functions in that method. You want to take out shooters during a slaughter, you increase your odds of stopping the killer if someone is armed. That doesn't mean I agree with that. I'm nostalgic of the days where I grew up where this wasn't something to worry about.

 

We didn't lock our doors either.

[CosmicBills]

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm for armed guards in school. I do know that I'm not for gun free zones that are really only gun free zones for the good guys. Making certain institutions "gun free" doesn't take in the unintended consequences of doing so. BTW, I'm not for allowing fully automatic weapons, the NRA doesn't have a hold of my balls, and since the Mayan thingy not working out as planned my early retirement isn't looking like the smartest move, so living longer isn't as attractive as it once was.

 

And I am in no way talking about repealing in any way shape or form the 2nd Amendment. Nor am I an idealist who thinks it's possible to live in a world without guns. Not in our lifetimes, not in our children's.

 

But what I am tired of is the NRA pretending to be a defender of the constitution instead of what they truly are: blood sucking vampires who would happily fund the continued self destruction of our country if we keep on pretending they're an independent entity. They're not policy makers, yet for the past five decades we've let them dictate terms to the voters.

 

That ended the moment the (*^*&%^$^#stepped on stage and said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". If that doesn't open everyone's eyes to the lengths the NRA will go to to protect their clients (gun manufacturers and sellers) by proposing a plan that has absolutely ZERO chance of working. Ever.

 

The one thing their plan guarantees though, is a healthy bottom line to the share holders of their benefactors.

 

The fact that the NRA spokesman could stand on that stage one week after the slaughter in CT and blame EVERYTHING but the easy access to weapons of mass carnage should shine a light for every single person on here. Conservative, liberal, libertarian, hell even fence sitters like Adam. The truth is there are literally DOZENS of factors that contributed to the tragedy. For the NRA to ignore one of the primary ones -- not just ignore it, REFUSE to even TALK about it, shows how little they care about finding real solutions.

 

That's a slap in the face to everyone who has EVER contributed to the NRA. Myself included.

 

Want to know of a country that has machine guns and armed personnel pretty much everywhere? Israel functions in that method. You want to take out shooters during a slaughter, you increase your odds of stopping the killer if someone is armed. That doesn't mean I agree with that. I'm nostalgic of the days where I grew up where this wasn't something to worry about.

 

And yet, despite that, it doesn't stop the violence in Israel and it darn sure won't stop the violence here at home. I'm with you that this is a sad day and something that we shouldn't have to think about. But this isn't an isolated incident. This has become the new normal -- and I'm tired of it.

 

Truth is we can do more to stop it. Burying our heads in the sand and pretending that the proliferation of assault weapons and high capacity ammunition clips have nothing to do with the problem is as crazy as saying the only reason it happened was because of mental health issues or cultural issues.

 

It's never just one thing.

Edited December 24, 2012 by tgreg99

[3rdnlng]

And I am in no way talking about repealing in any way shape or form the 2nd Amendment. Nor am I an idealist who thinks it's possible to live in a world without guns. Not in our lifetimes, not in our children's.

 

But what I am tired of is the NRA pretending to be a defender of the constitution instead of what they truly are: blood sucking vampires who would happily fund the continued self destruction of our country if we keep on pretending they're an independent entity. They're not policy makers, yet for the past five decades we've let them dictate terms to the voters.

 

That ended the moment the (*^*&%^$^#stepped on stage and said "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun". If that doesn't open everyone's eyes to the lengths the NRA will go to to protect their clients (gun manufacturers and sellers) by proposing a plan that has absolutely ZERO chance of working. Ever.

 

The one thing their plan guarantees though, is a healthy bottom line to the share holders of their benefactors.

 

The fact that the NRA spokesman could stand on that stage one week after the slaughter in CT and blame EVERYTHING but the easy access to weapons of mass carnage should shine a light for every single person on here. Conservative, liberal, libertarian, hell even fence sitters like Adam. The truth is there are literally DOZENS of factors that contributed to the tragedy. For the NRA to ignore one of the primary ones -- not just ignore it, REFUSE to even TALK about it, shows how little they care about finding real solutions.

 

That's a slap in the face to everyone who has EVER contributed to the NRA. Myself included.

 

 

 

And yet, despite that, it doesn't stop the violence in Israel and it darn sure won't stop the violence here at home. I'm with you that this is a sad day and something that we shouldn't have to think about. But this isn't an isolated incident. This has become the new normal -- and I'm tired of it.

 

Truth is we can do more to stop it. Burying our heads in the sand and pretending that the proliferation of assault weapons and high capacity ammunition clips have nothing to do with the problem is as crazy as saying the only reason it happened was because of mental health issues or cultural issues.

 

It's never just one thing.

 

So, these things happen without the problem of mental health issues? Would a mentally healthy person slaughter a bunch of elementary school kids for no apparent reason, or did the gun make him do it?

[meazza]

 

And yet, despite that, it doesn't stop the violence in Israel and it darn sure won't stop the violence here at home. I'm with you that this is a sad day and something that we shouldn't have to think about. But this isn't an isolated incident. This has become the new normal -- and I'm tired of it.

 

 

Try again. Since its inception, how has terrorism dropped in Israel? There was much higher rates of terrorism before compared to now. These methods are extremely strict and extreme but they work.

[truth on hold]

 

 

No you don't. Unless you're undergoing some kind of actual live ammo training most of the time your weapon is secured in the armory. It's actually illegal to carry personal weapons on a military base. Only MP's carry fulltime.

Nice. So military personnel aren't allowed firearms on base, but civilians can own military grade semi-automatic rifles. Unreal

[CosmicBills]

So, these things happen without the problem of mental health issues? Would a mentally healthy person slaughter a bunch of elementary school kids for no apparent reason, or did the gun make him do it?

You misunderstood me -- I'm not saying mental health issues didn't play a role. I'm saying there are multiple issues at play as there always are in cases such as these. To only talk about one issue, and to only talk about it in a vacuum, is not realistic. Just like it's not realistic to refuse to even DISCUSS the role that semi automatic weapons in the hands of civilians played in this tragedy. But that's exactly what the NRA wishes to do, and I absolutely lost whatever respect I used to have for them. They aren't even pretending to be anything other than driven by profit and greed.

 

See past that. I know you don't believe in that line of thinking. You, as a rational person know that the proliferation and accessibility to weapons certainly played a role. Not the only role, but it was certainly a factor even in the most absurdly literal definition.

[Alaska Darin]

The dozen gun killings outside Newtown, which include shootings by police, represented a typical, even peaceful day, for a country that has more firearm homicides every week than Canada has in a year.

 

http://mobile.bloomb...wn-rampage.html

So? Move to Canada. The reality of America is that unless you're involved in illegal activity (especially drugs), then you're no more likely to be a victim of gun violence than anywhere else in the world.

 

You misunderstood me -- I'm not saying mental health issues didn't play a role. I'm saying there are multiple issues at play as there always are in cases such as these. To only talk about one issue, and to only talk about it in a vacuum, is not realistic. Just like it's not realistic to refuse to even DISCUSS the role that semi automatic weapons in the hands of civilians played in this tragedy. But that's exactly what the NRA wishes to do, and I absolutely lost whatever respect I used to have for them. They aren't even pretending to be anything other than driven by profit and greed.

 

See past that. I know you don't believe in that line of thinking. You, as a rational person know that the proliferation and accessibility to weapons certainly played a role. Not the only role, but it was certainly a factor even in the most absurdly literal definition.

Probably has nothing to do with the fact that "semi-automatic" weapons are pretty much the same as hunting rifles. When you get down to it, the differences between "military-style" rifles and hunting rifles are purely cosmetic. Less than 2% of all gun crime is committed with "assault weapons".

 

I'm not even going to get into how silly the last "assault weapons" ban was - it didn't keep a single "assault weapon" off the streets and the next one wouldn't either.

 

If someone wants to kill people and become famous, they are going to find a way to do it, the media is going to fill their role, and politicians are going to try their best to capitalize on it. That's just reality.

[Alaska Darin]

The fact that the NRA spokesman could stand on that stage one week after the slaughter in CT and blame EVERYTHING but the easy access to weapons of mass carnage should shine a light for every single person on here. Conservative, liberal, libertarian, hell even fence sitters like Adam. The truth is there are literally DOZENS of factors that contributed to the tragedy. For the NRA to ignore one of the primary ones -- not just ignore it, REFUSE to even TALK about it, shows how little they care about finding real solutions.

How exactly was it "easy access to weapons"? That dude went to the store and tried to buy a gun. He didn't get one there. Like virtually ALL criminals, he found another way. People bent on mayhem tend to do just that.

And yet, despite that, it doesn't stop the violence in Israel and it darn sure won't stop the violence here at home. I'm with you that this is a sad day and something that we shouldn't have to think about. But this isn't an isolated incident. This has become the new normal -- and I'm tired of it.

Violent crime in America is pretty much at an all time low. If you're sick of it, turn off your television because it's the only place it's actually impacting your life. It certainly isn't part of your daily life any other way, if you're an average guy.

Truth is we can do more to stop it. Burying our heads in the sand and pretending that the proliferation of assault weapons and high capacity ammunition clips have nothing to do with the problem is as crazy as saying the only reason it happened was because of mental health issues or cultural issues.

This is another "lie repeated often enough"... It takes about 1 second to reload. ONE. This guy was in a school with KINDERGARTENERS. Let's say he had 10 round clips. Instead of reloading 6 times, he would have had to reload 18. Or he could have chosen any of the other guns he had on him. Your "idea" wouldn't have changed the outcome.

 

Looking at it another way. The last "Ban" made the manufacture of hi-cap magazines illegal. It did not, however, make the "reconditioning" of high capacity magazines illegal. That meant there was still just as much of a market but the prices skyrocketed. You know who could afford to buy those? A dude whose mom lived in a million dollar mansion and could afford to own multiple high cost weapons, including a $1200+ Bushmaster.

 

Most gun owners look at the politics of these situations as "frog boiling" situations. Sure, you banning "assault weapons" wouldn't have any effect on actual crime but it opens another door - because there will be precedent when this **** happens again. AND IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN.

 

No matter how many laws you pass, there will be dickheads who kill defenseless people. It's been that way since we started drawing **** on cave walls.

It's never just one thing.

And prohibition has proven not to work at all.

 

You want to fix what ails America? Get involved in your community. Teach parents, administrators, and teachers how to recognize mental health problems and get people the help they need. Start looking deeper into who is benefiting from keeping drugs illegal because the violence and prison culture that's been perpetuated from it has killed our inner cities.

[truth on hold]

The biggest crock of crap that keeps getting repeated is that the killer would have just used something else if not for guns. The slaughter at SH was not premeditated. It stemmed from an argument he had with his mother. If not for legal guns in the household he may beaten or stabbed her death. He goes to school with a knife and at most kills one or two people, good chance none. Because of gun availability, A spur of the moment rage was turned into a mass slaughter where 26 innocents died at an elementary school, 20 of which were small children. And you can take that to the bank.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack