The new lease: the cynic's view

[Snopple]

The other thing is, it's not a $400 mil fee as in "You have to pay $400 mil if you want to move the Bills."

 

That is what an owner would have to pay if they won a legal decision to break the lease. So, really there would be lengthy court proceedings before that "penalty" comes into effect. The $400 mil is an insurance policy set in place by the State to recoup the $ that they've invested in the Bills over the years.

 

Yes, it's a deterrent. And yes, it is a substantial figure. Some may argue that any case brought against the County and State would be easily won, but it certainly isn't guaranteed. But I think it is important to note that $400 mil isn't simply an associated cost- there are other protections in place before that money even becomes a factor.

 

 

Well said. I was thinking along the same lines. But wasn’t sure how to word it. I can’t cite specific examples right now. But I have heard of cases where certain conditions were written into a lease or into a will, but were struck down by the courts as being unreasonable.

 

Would forcing forcing a future Buffalo Bills owner to pay the state and county $400 million to move his team be considered unreasonable? I don’t know. But it is something to think about.

 

What if the next owner wanted to move the team to Toronto. Could he get around paying the $400 million by saying that he wasn’t relocating. Just moving to another stadium within the same market? Who knows.

[mrags]

 

 

 

Well said. I was thinking along the same lines. But wasn’t sure how to word it. I can’t cite specific examples right now. But I have heard of cases where certain conditions were written into a lease or into a will, but were struck down by the courts as being unreasonable.

 

Would forcing forcing a future Buffalo Bills owner to pay the state and county $400 million to move his team be considered unreasonable? I don’t know. But it is something to think about.

 

What if the next owner wanted to move the team to Toronto. Could he get around paying the $400 million by saying that he wasn’t relocating. Just moving to another stadium within the same market? Who knows.

i think the "unreasonable" part would be tossed out because any new owner would know that lease as part of the purchase. It's not unreasonable. It was written in part of the agreement. It's only a 7 year plan essentially and if the new owner Didnt like it, they could easily wait a few more years.

 

And if course, like I said, even if Ralph dies tomorrow, we wouldn't have a new owner for probably another year. By the time that owner took over and actually started to fight this lease deal, there is probably another few years in courts and millions of dollars with lawyers/attorneys/accountants/city, state, county governments that it would not only not be worth it, it would take so long, you might as well just wait out the 7 years.

 

Call it what you want, the Bills aren't going anywhere for at least 7 years. And that's what I'll call it.

[Al Cowlings]

I will start by agreeing with PTR always looking at the down side what happened to the silver lining ?

 

In this agreement there was something stated about a team of folks would be put together to look into the feasibility of a new stadium for the Bills so could that mean (on the brighter side) that this deal is in place to keep the Bills here while the plans for a future home for the Bills is put into motion ?

 

The one thing that really should tick off Bills fans is the way NYC gets 95 % of all monies to keep that HOLE up & running as far as sports teams go. The rest of the state is paying for it & the only true NY NFL team sits in a 40 year old stadium while,

 

The Yankees, Mets, Nets all have brand new facilities & the Knicks, Rangers, & Islanders now that B/Lo has there measly (10 yr contract in a 40 yr old stadium) will be the next up for new homes while the Bills will still be sitting in the Ralph.

 

NY politicians suck when it comes to... well let me just leave it at that !!!

 

That "HOLE" you refer to keeps this pathetic state up and running. Look at the difference in population centers in the state. Is it obvious why NYC gets more funds? Don't they contribute a lot more?

 

Several ways to look at this. First thing I'll say is this... LA has demonstrated NOT to be a viable NFL market... not once, but twice. They can build a stadium if they want. And all the Hollywood crowd can buy lux suites and the game cameras can always cut to the stars waving in their cushy suites. But at the end of the day the stadium will not have been filled and fan interest just aint there. If LA wants a team, they don't need to wait for the Bills. Oakland or SanDiego...can stake their claim now. And, you want to talk about teams that are ripe for moving... why has everyone stopped talking about the Jaguars? Jax is about as low as it gets on the totem pole for fan base. Even when Coughlin was coaching and the Jags were good, they couldn't sell out. Now a new owner... and he wants to make a buck Go move to LA Shad... go get that gold. As far as any other venue besides LA... where are the Bills gonna go? San Antonio? Nyet! Toronto? Right... great football town, eh? Just where are the Bills gonna garner more interest?

 

Within the next three years, WNY will be humming, or at least beginning to hum economically. Why would I say something stupid like that? Frack baby Frack! Hydrofracking is coming to a place near you. It is a done deal and the natural gas boom will be 'game on'..; and as early as this year. Oh, you can argue of all the bans that the local communities have placed on fracking, but it doesn't mean squat. State Law trumps all that... and right now the state law is going to win out. So, by 2015, a few years into the new lease and new ownership looming. Why would a a new owner want to bolt and leave all that economic viability on the table and move to some other venue? Doesn't make sense. The fan base is there and always has been... the money just hasn't been right because of the economics. Well, when the WNY economy gets going again shortly and the new owner makes a bank deposit of $150M for the the old Ralph to be named "NYSEG FIELD" or some othe natural gas company, those pundits that have been spewing for years about the Bills moving can kiss my big fat ass.

 

You heard it here first, fracking saves WNY and the BIlls. LOL.

[mrags]

Several ways to look at this. First thing I'll say is this... LA has demonstrated NOT to be a viable NFL market... not once, but twice. They can build a stadium if they want. And all the Hollywood crowd can buy lux suites and the game cameras can always cut to the stars waving in their cushy suites. But at the end of the day the stadium will not have been filled and fan interest just aint there. If LA wants a team, they don't need to wait for the Bills. Oakland or SanDiego...can stake their claim now. And, you want to talk about teams that are ripe for moving... why has everyone stopped talking about the Jaguars? Jax is about as low as it gets on the totem pole for fan base. Even when Coughlin was coaching and the Jags were good, they couldn't sell out. Now a new owner... and he wants to make a buck Go move to LA Shad... go get that gold. As far as any other venue besides LA... where are the Bills gonna go? San Antonio? Nyet! Toronto? Right... great football town, eh? Just where are the Bills gonna garner more interest?

 

Within the next three years, WNY will be humming, or at least beginning to hum economically. Why would I say something stupid like that? Frack baby Frack! Hydrofracking is coming to a place near you. It is a done deal and the natural gas boom will be 'game on'..; and as early as this year. Oh, you can argue of all the bans that the local communities have placed on fracking, but it doesn't mean squat. State Law trumps all that... and right now the state law is going to win out. So, by 2015, a few years into the new lease and new ownership looming. Why would a a new owner want to bolt and leave all that economic viability on the table and move to some other venue? Doesn't make sense. The fan base is there and always has been... the money just hasn't been right because of the economics. Well, when the WNY economy gets going again shortly and the new owner makes a bank deposit of $150M for the the old Ralph to be named "NYSEG FIELD" or some othe natural gas company, those pundits that have been spewing for years about the Bills moving can kiss my big fat ass.

I can probably buy this argument. You might be right.

[bowery4]

I take it as Erie County and New York State have seven years to plan for a new stadium. As the County Executive stated on WGR yesterday, (I am paraphrasing) the planning for a new stadium in the next ten years should make the team more attractive to a potential owner with plans to keep the team here. I would not mind a multi use complex with a new convention center and a domed stadium in Downtown Buffalo.

Kill a few birds with one stone build it next to the old terminal building put a Bills and a Terminal museum in it and make it a convention center too. Prop up a bad neighborhood with a decent location and save a great old building, build another (with a matching look even?).

[PromoTheRobot]

RWS is 40 years old. How long do you expect a lease to be? Another part of the 7 year out is there will likely be a new stadium proposal by that time. Then you get a 30 year deal.

 

PTR

Edited December 23, 2012 by PromoTheRobot

[mrags]

RWS is 40 years old. How long do you expect a lease to be? Another part of the 7 year out is there will likely be a new stadium proposal by that time. Then you get a 30 year deal.

 

PTR

This ---^

 

 

Kill a few birds with one stone build it next to the old terminal building put a Bills and a Terminal museum in it and make it a convention center too. Prop up a bad neighborhood with a decent location and save a great old building, build another (with a matching look even?).

Very cool idea.

 

Anything that would include a new or updated transit system thought would be helpful.

[Rubes]

RWS is 40 years old. How long do you expect a lease to be? Another part of the 7 year out is there will likely be a new stadium proposal by that time. Then you get a 30 year deal.

 

PTR

 

See, I can definitely appreciate this perspective, certainly much moreso than the typical knee-jerk responses about whiny fans who always want to B word and can never be happy.

 

What the discussion has helped me understand is that this lease agreement is not about the years remaining for Ralph Wilson, and it's not about the Bills making a long-term commitment to Buffalo. It's about one thing, and one thing only: Ralph Wilson stadium. As it should be, since that's what the lease is really all about. I think there is a tendency—and I am guilty of this myself, but I also put some of this on the media and on the parties involved, since they also do this—to make this out to be more than what it is, that it's really about the Bills relationship with the Buffalo area.

 

But it's not. What this lease is saying, loud and clear to me, is that the Ralph has a remaining useful life span of 7 to 10 years (with a few hundred million in fix-ups), and that's all the Bills are comfortable committing to as far as a stadium to call home. After that, there needs to be a plan in place for either a new stadium, or major upgrades to the Ralph (which I think is unlikely).

 

I do think that becomes a serious bargaining chip for the Bills when the time comes, and it's going to be a political hot potato. And 7 years is going to come a lot sooner than it seems.

 

But really, when I was considering the prospects of a new lease, I was really hoping for something in the 15-20 year time frame. I think we all were, because what I was thinking was that the lease was more about the Bills committing to Buffalo, and we want that to be as long of a commitment as possible. Upon hearing that it's really a 7 year (and, at most, 10 year) commitment, I think many people (myself included) thought, "that's not really much of a commitment." But it's really just about the Bills commitment to the Ralph, and upon reflection the Ralph is a really old stadium, and things are going to have to change in a major way. The lease is telling us that the change is going to occur in the next 7 to 10 years.

 

That's what it's about. I made the leap to make it out to be more than that, which added to my cynicism. I'm still cynical, mind you—7 years isn't really long, Ralph is really old, do we really know what will happen with a new owner, and I mean, how do we really expect things to go in terms of a new stadium given the problems in New York state, and upstate in particular? But yes, I'm glad we have seven secure years to think about it. I wish it were more, but I have a better understanding now of the reasons why.

Edited December 23, 2012 by Rubes