BisonMan Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 There has been a lot of sniping at Chan Gailey these days but living in the DC/Baltimore area has taught me something lately. Coaches with QBs that play great are considered great and coaches with crappy QBs are considered terrible. Last year, the talk around DC was how horrible a coach Mike Shanahan was and how Kyle Shanahan should never be allowed to coach an offense again. One year and one RGIII later, both are hailed as geniuses. Kyle is now considered a top contender for teams looking for a new HC. On the flip side, while Joe Flacco was playing well (and their defense was healthy), John Harbaugh was considered to be a great coach. Flacco outplayed Tom Brady in the AFC Championship game and was one Lee Evans drop away from the SuperBowl. Now Flacco has regressed (QBR lower than Fitz) and everyone is questioning the job Harbaugh is doing. They fired the OC last week and Flacco did even worse. Looking at a list of the highest rated QBs on ESPN's QBR ranking shows us a list of successful coaches. It is rare that a coach is considered "great" without a really good QB. I'm hard-pressed to find a "great" coach that I can credit with elevating a QB's game considerably. Jim Harbaugh in SF might be the notable exception (Alex Smith). So, if by some miracle the Bills secure an elite QB either through the draft (best hope) or in FA (unlikely), I'm sure the collective wisdom about Chan's coaching ability will turn around. I personally think that Gailey is getting the most out of Fitz's limited talent and that Fitz would do worse in a more conventional offense (with more down field throws and longer patterns). Similarly, the Gailey scheme limits the exposure of our O-Line that still needs work. I've been critical of some calls by Chan but overall, I think he knows the hand he's been dealt and is putting the best face on it.
Best Player Available Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) There has been a lot of sniping at Chan Gailey these days but living in the DC/Baltimore area has taught me something lately. Coaches with QBs that play great are considered great and coaches with crappy QBs are considered terrible. Last year, the talk around DC was how horrible a coach Mike Shanahan was and how Kyle Shanahan should never be allowed to coach an offense again. One year and one RGIII later, both are hailed as geniuses. Kyle is now considered a top contender for teams looking for a new HC. On the flip side, while Joe Flacco was playing well (and their defense was healthy), John Harbaugh was considered to be a great coach. Flacco outplayed Tom Brady in the AFC Championship game and was one Lee Evans drop away from the SuperBowl. Now Flacco has regressed (QBR lower than Fitz) and everyone is questioning the job Harbaugh is doing. They fired the OC last week and Flacco did even worse. Looking at a list of the highest rated QBs on ESPN's QBR ranking shows us a list of successful coaches. It is rare that a coach is considered "great" without a really good QB. I'm hard-pressed to find a "great" coach that I can credit with elevating a QB's game considerably. Jim Harbaugh in SF might be the notable exception (Alex Smith). So, if by some miracle the Bills secure an elite QB either through the draft (best hope) or in FA (unlikely), I'm sure the collective wisdom about Chan's coaching ability will turn around. I personally think that Gailey is getting the most out of Fitz's limited talent and that Fitz would do worse in a more conventional offense (with more down field throws and longer patterns). Similarly, the Gailey scheme limits the exposure of our O-Line that still needs work. I've been critical of some calls by Chan but overall, I think he knows the hand he's been dealt and is putting the best face on it. Gaileys made a reputation and career out of playing crappy q-backs. Kordell Stewert, Tyler Thigpen, and Fitz. it seems like he goes out of his way to try and rehab nobody's. Granted Stewert had minor success. What makes you think a grade A prospect would flourish with a guy who is clueless he has one of the best running back tandems in the league. Failey needs to be shown the door and go home and grow peanuts. Edited December 20, 2012 by Best Player Available
phypon Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Does a great QB automatically make a coach learn how to manage a clock and know when to kick a field goal or go for it on 4th instead of punt?
jr1 Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Chan doesn't care about defense or special teams. He lost to Georgia 6 straight times at Tech
Dr. Trooth Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Chan wouldn't know what the hell to do with a good QB. Don't believe me? Ask Troy Aikman.
auburnbillsbacker Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 The reality is that almost all coaches appear great when they have a great QB.
BisonMan Posted December 20, 2012 Author Posted December 20, 2012 Chan doesn't care about defense or special teams. He lost to Georgia 6 straight times at Tech As a Ga Tech grad, this is a painful reminder. However, GA Tech is not a football school and Georgia is. If GA Tech offered degrees in basket weaving like UGA, they could compete!
KOKBILLS Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Does a great QB automatically make a coach learn how to manage a clock and know when to kick a field goal or go for it on 4th instead of punt? No...And it would remain a concern... But a great QB all but assures he does not have to make nearly as many of those tough decisions... Just saying... The reality is that almost all coaches appear great when they have a great QB. Agreed... I'm not the biggest Gailey Fan in the world...But I think the Fitz's play is 100 times more damaging to the Bills than Gailey's suspect Coaching...If Fitz plays really well, Gailey is a good enough Coach...
BillsFan130 Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 i would be a great coach if i had a great QB... jim caldwell looked pretty great with peyton manning
G-Daddy Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 We should have drafted a QB three years ago then.
janicks Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 On the flip side, while Joe Flacco was playing well (and their defense was healthy), John Harbaugh was considered to be a great coach. Flacco outplayed Tom Brady in the AFC Championship game and was one Lee Evans drop away from the SuperBowl. Now Flacco has regressed (QBR lower than Fitz) and everyone is questioning the job Harbaugh is doing. They fired the OC last week and Flacco did even worse. I live outside of Baltimore and I don't get the impression that the fans or media here are all that down on Harbaugh. Flacco they are ready to run out of town though. With regards to Gailey, I don't feel like this should be a 5 win team with the tallent here and with the cupcake schedule. I think some of the games were horribly managed, particularly the Indy game, and I think the team completely quit for the Seattle game. Thats all on the coach.
dayman Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Chan has revealed bad coaching besides just QB related stuff. And in any event, Chan gave us Fitz. So even if it is all about the QB, he is the one who backed Fitz like this.
Dibs Posted December 21, 2012 Posted December 21, 2012 There has been a lot of sniping at Chan Gailey these days but living in the DC/Baltimore area has taught me something lately. Coaches with QBs that play great are considered great and coaches with crappy QBs are considered terrible. Last year, the talk around DC was how horrible a coach Mike Shanahan was and how Kyle Shanahan should never be allowed to coach an offense again. One year and one RGIII later, both are hailed as geniuses. Kyle is now considered a top contender for teams looking for a new HC. On the flip side, while Joe Flacco was playing well (and their defense was healthy), John Harbaugh was considered to be a great coach. Flacco outplayed Tom Brady in the AFC Championship game and was one Lee Evans drop away from the SuperBowl. Now Flacco has regressed (QBR lower than Fitz) and everyone is questioning the job Harbaugh is doing. They fired the OC last week and Flacco did even worse. Looking at a list of the highest rated QBs on ESPN's QBR ranking shows us a list of successful coaches. It is rare that a coach is considered "great" without a really good QB. I'm hard-pressed to find a "great" coach that I can credit with elevating a QB's game considerably. Jim Harbaugh in SF might be the notable exception (Alex Smith). So, if by some miracle the Bills secure an elite QB either through the draft (best hope) or in FA (unlikely), I'm sure the collective wisdom about Chan's coaching ability will turn around. I personally think that Gailey is getting the most out of Fitz's limited talent and that Fitz would do worse in a more conventional offense (with more down field throws and longer patterns). Similarly, the Gailey scheme limits the exposure of our O-Line that still needs work. I've been critical of some calls by Chan but overall, I think he knows the hand he's been dealt and is putting the best face on it. "CONSIDERED" Added to your thread title, this word would mean the difference between the statement being false and true IMO. "Chan is considered a great coach...if he gets a great QB" I have frustratingly thought on many occasions that CG's Offense would likely be a world beater if he had a legit quarterback quarterbacking it. Unfortunately CG has persisted time and again to try and fit a bunch of square pegs into round holes. Instead of assessing his current talent pool and adapting his Offense accordingly to run with its strengths(pun intended), he constantly persists on his initial game plan, to which the incumbent talent simply cannot execute efficiently. A great QB would help hide many of CG's deficiencies as a HC. His team would likely be winning and his Offense would look spectacular and dynamic. He would definitely IMO be considered a great coach. Unfortunately he wouldn't be a great coach. He wouldn't even be a decent coach, which everyone would likely learn at the first showing of true adversity or bad luck. The wheels would come off, everything would come to a grinding halt and his true abilities would become apparent. IMO CG is a great designer of one type of offense. Given the correct personnel, his Offense could be spectacular. This doesn't mean that he has all of the myriad of abilities that a HC needs....in fact he has very few.
BisonMan Posted December 21, 2012 Author Posted December 21, 2012 Chan wouldn't know what the hell to do with a good QB. Don't believe me? Ask Troy Aikman. Yeah, they went to the playoffs both years and Aikman's numbers went up in those two years over the two prior years. "CONSIDERED" Added to your thread title, this word would mean the difference between the statement being false and true IMO. "Chan is considered a great coach...if he gets a great QB" I have frustratingly thought on many occasions that CG's Offense would likely be a world beater if he had a legit quarterback quarterbacking it. Unfortunately CG has persisted time and again to try and fit a bunch of square pegs into round holes. Instead of assessing his current talent pool and adapting his Offense accordingly to run with its strengths(pun intended), he constantly persists on his initial game plan, to which the incumbent talent simply cannot execute efficiently. A great QB would help hide many of CG's deficiencies as a HC. His team would likely be winning and his Offense would look spectacular and dynamic. He would definitely IMO be considered a great coach. Unfortunately he wouldn't be a great coach. He wouldn't even be a decent coach, which everyone would likely learn at the first showing of true adversity or bad luck. The wheels would come off, everything would come to a grinding halt and his true abilities would become apparent. IMO CG is a great designer of one type of offense. Given the correct personnel, his Offense could be spectacular. This doesn't mean that he has all of the myriad of abilities that a HC needs....in fact he has very few. I disagree with a lot of this. Gailey has created an offense around the lack of skills at the QB position. Lots of screens and short passes hide Fitz's lack of arm strength and accuracy. This offense also accentuates Fitz's pre-snap read capability by spreading out the defense to identify matchups. I truly believe that Gailey would fundamentally change the offense if he had a strong-armed and accurate QB. Still, I tend to agree that he doesn't make effective use of the talent at RB even though the Bills run a lot more than most teams. Gailey does a lot of things wrong as many posters have said. My original point was that a great QB hides poor or mediocre coaching. A crappy QB makes even the best coaches look like chumps.
Dibs Posted December 21, 2012 Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah, they went to the playoffs both years and Aikman's numbers went up in those two years over the two prior years. I disagree with a lot of this. Gailey has created an offense around the lack of skills at the QB position. Lots of screens and short passes hide Fitz's lack of arm strength and accuracy. This offense also accentuates Fitz's pre-snap read capability by spreading out the defense to identify matchups. I truly believe that Gailey would fundamentally change the offense if he had a strong-armed and accurate QB. Still, I tend to agree that he doesn't make effective use of the talent at RB even though the Bills run a lot more than most teams. Gailey does a lot of things wrong as many posters have said. My original point was that a great QB hides poor or mediocre coaching. A crappy QB makes even the best coaches look like chumps. I'm figuring that we agree on the main basis of things....I was just being pedantic over the difference between "great" and "considered great".....which is what I do sometimes, please forgive In regards to the lesser points.... I am certainly no expert, and I accept that CG would likely change and amp up his offense even more with a legit QB.....however...I watch Fitz throw balls that not only regularly totally miss players, but more importantly rarely hit them in stride. Under the current offensive system, if we had a QB that not only could hit the WRs in stride but could also throw an accurate deep ball(and mid-short ball)....the offense would move from being "relatively productive" to "fantastic" IMO....without needing to fundamentally change it to suit a better QB. Edited December 21, 2012 by Dibs
JPCinTULLY Posted December 21, 2012 Posted December 21, 2012 Chan is not a great HEAD coach!! i think he coulld however be a great o coordinator if he had a GOOD HEAD coach to tell him to stop being stupid with the five wides and RUN THE BALL !!!
The Helmet of Posted December 21, 2012 Posted December 21, 2012 (edited) yeah sure and dick jaurson is a hall of famer edit: i spelled his name wrong on purpose, because i have so little respect for him. Edited December 21, 2012 by MarkKelso'sHelmet
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