The Farming Cliff. A viewpoint from a farmer.

[boyst]

http://www.journalnow.com/opinion/columnists/article_264c52f6-4a34-11e2-97ce-001a4bcf6878.html

 

The proposed farm bill is estimated to cost nearly $100 billion per year. But, let’s be clear about one thing. Only about 20 percent of the farm bill actually goes to farms and farmers. Over 80 percent of farm bill spending goes to the U.S. Department of Agriculture for funding of nutrition programs like the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP). SNAP is now the Federal Food Stamp Program and the Free and Reduced Lunches and Breakfast at America’s schools. Many politicians have adopted the misconception that cutting payments to agriculture will go a long way toward avoiding the looming fiscal cliff. The fact is the farm bill as a whole is about 3 percent of the $3.54 trillion annual federal budget making direct payments to agriculture considerably less than 1 percent of the annual federal budget.

 

Farmers staying on the land and farming is good for everyone. Over 2 million farms in the United States are responsible for feeding 312 million people here, plus millions of others around the globe. In 1960, one farmer fed about 25 people. Today, one farmer feeds about 155 people.

 

I guess I am confused when we will bail out banks, bail out the auto industry, give money to study country with a coffer pot out...yet will not help ensure the stability of our nationals most important industry.

[RkFast]

Youre one of the biggest Obama cheerleaders around.

 

You voted for this dreck.

 

Now own it.

Edited December 20, 2012 by RkFast

[Koko78]

To be honest, I've never had a problem with farm subsidies per se, other than the whole pay-not-to-grow-things bullpoop.

 

It's technically an unfair trade practice on top of a significant expenditure, but frankly I'd rather toss some cash at farmers while pissing off the Brazilians if it means we never have to deal with mass starvation should things go wrong.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Jesus H. Christ...

 

Programs like SNAP are an indirect subsidy to Big Agriculture. The the factory farmers are getting the money, just not directly.

[boyst]

Youre one of the biggest Obama cheerleaders around.

 

You voted for this dreck.

 

Now own it.

Wut?

 

Seriously?! WHAT?! I did not vote for him. I have never been an Obama mark...let alone a supporter. Where dafuq did that come from? If you're going to lob an accusation like that make sure you're accurate.

 

To be honest, I've never had a problem with farm subsidies per se, other than the whole pay-not-to-grow-things bullpoop.

 

It's technically an unfair trade practice on top of a significant expenditure, but frankly I'd rather toss some cash at farmers while pissing off the Brazilians if it means we never have to deal with mass starvation should things go wrong.

I did not agree with the payoffs either until I understood the ramifications of what a push crop would do to our economy and the industry. If we produced record amounts of corn every year the price of corn would drop to pennies on the dollar, farmers would make nothing, the middle man would make less of a margin and products would be cheap as dirt. Of course, if we drop the floor out of the pricing of corn products vs. the cost of other goods it just throws everything off. I heard a much more educated speaker on this at a conference and wish I retained how he explained it. I am not convinced with it being the best way but it is the American way, at the least.

 

Jesus H. Christ...

 

Programs like SNAP are an indirect subsidy to Big Agriculture. The the factory farmers are getting the money, just not directly.

If trickle down economics worked then, yes. However, it is just a few cents that they get.

 

The term factory farms is cooked up mass media term to scare us, to confuse us, and it is just not accurate.

[Koko78]

I did not agree with the payoffs either until I understood the ramifications of what a push crop would do to our economy and the industry. If we produced record amounts of corn every year the price of corn would drop to pennies on the dollar, farmers would make nothing, the middle man would make less of a margin and products would be cheap as dirt. Of course, if we drop the floor out of the pricing of corn products vs. the cost of other goods it just throws everything off. I heard a much more educated speaker on this at a conference and wish I retained how he explained it. I am not convinced with it being the best way but it is the American way, at the least.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand why they pay farmers not to grow crops, but I think it would be far more sensible to pay the farmers some sort of subsidy to grow another crop rather than pay them to leave the land fallow.

 

Perhaps this wasn't an option back when the programs started decades ago (and I really don't care enough to do the legwork to research it), but I think it's certainly viable now to pay them to switch a certain percentage of their fields to another crop when the Dept. of Agriculture is concerned about overproduction.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Koko78

[TakeYouToTasker]

If trickle down economics worked then, yes. However, it is just a few cents that they get.

So, lets suppose that you raise chickens. The money that gets spent by the government on SNAP type programs leads directly to the purchase of chickens (amongst other various foodstuffs) at market. The market chains must purchase those chickens from somewhere... hence the indirect subsidy.

 

The term factory farms is cooked up mass media term to scare us, to confuse us, and it is just not accurate.

The small farmer is a thing of the past. More and more farms are being systematically bought up by large corporate interets for whom the estate tax is not an issue (the estate tax is largely a leverage tool used to support this industry specific corporate interest). These businesses thrive on the guaranteed income streams provided by the federal subsidies (both direct and indirect). The factory farm is very real, my friend, and they're becoming far more prevalent under our neo-mercantilist system. You're among the last of a dying breed. Edited December 20, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker

[boyst]

So, lets suppose that you raise chickens. The money that gets spent by the government on SNAP type programs leads directly to the purchase of chickens (amongst other various foodstuffs) at market. The market chains must purchase those chickens from somewhere... hence the indirect subsidy.

Bad example. Chickens and other poultry are raised under contract and those contracts do not alter. The poultry business in this country is insane. The biggest beneficiary of this type of program are the middlemen who line their products up to consumers after gouging producers.

 

The small farmer is a thing of the past. More and more farms are being systematically bought up by large corporate interets for whom the estate tax is not an issue (the estate tax is largely a leverage tool used to support this industry specific corporate interest). These businesses thrive on the guaranteed income streams provided by the federal subsidies (both direct and indirect). The factory farm is very real, my friend, and they're becoming far more prevalent under our neo-mercantilist system. You're among the last of a dying breed.

Guess I will just have to trust you on that...you probably know more about farming then I do? Do you even realize I am a farmer?

[TakeYouToTasker]

Bad example. Chickens and other poultry are raised under contract and those contracts do not alter. The poultry business in this country is insane. The biggest beneficiary of this type of program are the middlemen who line their products up to consumers after gouging producers.

The entire farming industry is trending that way because of the huge sums of money it can generate for corporate interests.

 

Guess I will just have to trust you on that...you probably know more about farming then I do? Do you even realize I am a farmer?

I know next to nothing about farming, but I'm a businessman, and I know a good deal more about business trends than you do. We aren't talking about the best way to guarentee soil quality, we're talking about making money.

[boyst]

The entire farming industry is trending that way because of the huge sums of money it can generate for corporate interests.

Then the push you need to focus on is the small organizations and associations fighting to regain power across this country to protect the individual interests. In the farming community the only way I can think of it is that it is better to get in bed with many parties then it is to just share one. I am a member of my county organization, my state organization which is directly related to SC, the Farm Bureau (which is NC but then spreads to all of the country), the county Ag District, and working on joining a land trust organization. All of them have different interests that can conflict, but each of them can cover my ass for a different reason. A good example was just a few years ago with forced annexation here in NC. Basically the VAD makes it so the nearby cities want nothing to do with me because they cannot force me to pay for their utilities, enter upon my land without compensation, and other such things.

I know next to nothing about farming, but I'm a businessman, and I know a good deal more about business trends than you do. We aren't talking about the best way to guarentee soil quality, we're talking about making money.

The family farm is alive and well and on a much bigger scale. The trends you are seeing are larger operations with contracts being drawn to bring cooperation between companies like Tyson and farmer, BPA and farmer, etc. It is not a risk right now for the corporation but it could be if another unrealized trend continues - local food sources. The unspoken fact is that more and more consumers are looking to buy from local food sources, eat better, and avoid the chains. Corporations will never disappear, it is not their nature, but I am offended by the term factory farm. And, I have been to 3,000 acre ranches, I have been to large poultry producers, and known/know many nationally respected farmers that are not a factory.

 

I do not disagree with what you say or may know, I just think we have a different angle in which we see things, a perspective that is split by where we stand and what we've seen. I would, though, like to know what you have seen in these trends, if you get time to explain...that is, if you have time sitting behind your fancy schmancy desk...which reminds me, I have to go check on the herd and get lunch. (I kid about the desk comment, just want to rub it in how boring that may be )

[/dev/null]

http://www.journalno...1a4bcf6878.html

Only about 20 percent of the farm bill actually goes to farms and farmers. Over 80 percent of farm bill spending goes to the U.S. Department of Agriculture for funding of nutrition programs like the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP).

 

Forward!

So, lets suppose that you raise chickens. The money that gets spent by the government on SNAP type programs leads directly to the purchase of chickens (amongst other various foodstuffs) at market. The market chains must purchase those chickens from somewhere... hence the indirect subsidy.

So who owns the chickens? And what happens if you hit them with a hammer

[RkFast]

Dude, didnt you vote for Obama? You come across as quite the liberal, so that was my assumption.

 

If not, I apologize.

Edited December 20, 2012 by RkFast

[TakeYouToTasker]

(I kid about the desk comment, just want to rub it in how boring that may be )

 

Actually, I generally don't spend a ton of time at my desk. I have support staff for that. I spend most of my time on my feet (I think better standing, and usually have a baseball in my hand), in meetings, and golfing.

[Joe Miner]

Actually, I generally don't spend a ton of time at my desk. I have support staff for that. I spend most of my time on my feet (I think better standing, and usually have a baseball in my hand), in meetings, and golfing.

 

Are you able to handle the truth?

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

Are you able to handle the truth?

ALOL... That's good stuff.

 

In all seriousness, I have pretty bad ADD, and the baseball is a non-medicinal coping mechanism I developed as a kid. If I play with the baseball, tossing it to myself and blasting through different pitch grips, it allows me to focus on whatever task is in front of me much easier.

[boyst]

Are you able to handle the truth?

Funny, you thought of Cruise in whatever movie that was. I was thinking Jerry Maguire.

 

Dude, didnt you vote for Obama? You come across as quite the liberal, so that was my assumption.

 

If not, I apologize.

I am a Libertarian if anything.

No, I did not vote for Obama, I live in North Carolina and regret my vote, which was done to be a vote against Obama, wishing I would have picked Gary Johnson. (I early voted and studied projections, which at the time were far, far more ahead then expected for Obama).

Edited December 20, 2012 by jboyst62

[Coach Tuesday]

Farm subsidies and socialized meds. We pay to fatten people up with cheap corn products and then pay to fix them because they become sick and obese.

 

This country is nuts.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Coach Tuesday

[boyst]

Farm subsidies and socialized meds. We pay to fatten people up with cheap corn products and then pay to fix them because they become sick and obese.

 

This country is nuts.

You forgot to mention, being gay is a lifestyle choice, while being fat is genetic or a medical condition.

[dayman]

You forgot to mention, being gay is a lifestyle choice, while being fat is genetic or a medical condition.

 

Plug the Paleo Diet and ship him some steaks...get some of that grain money for yourself.

Edited December 21, 2012 by SameOldBills

[Coach Tuesday]

 

You forgot to mention, being gay is a lifestyle choice, while being fat is genetic or a medical condition.

 

Not sure what you mean. Anyhow.

 

I am mostly a libertarian as well. Don't see how you can self-respectingly grovel for handouts because "everyone else is getting one." No one should, including Big Ag which is where most of that money goes. Cheap corn has created a public health crisis in this country, in addition to the many other problems caused or contributed to by factory farming (global warming, price inefficiencies, institutionalized torture of sentient animals, etc.).