Sisyphean Bills Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 That $75 million we got for 5 meaningless games probably helped us sign Mario Williams (wait, are we running him out of town today?). Ralph Wilson was once asked about the Toronto money in an interview and said point blank that none of that money would ever be made available for player contracts.
dhg Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Ralph Wilson was once asked about the Toronto money in an interview and said point blank that none of that money would ever be made available for player contracts. Link?
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Brandon has an uphill battle in marketing this operation. He does a good job at that and he's trusted by ownership, all of which goes to explain why he keeps getting promoted.
May Day 10 Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 He has been with the team for 17 years, the exact period since the last playoff win. Obviously all of it is nowhere near his fault. There is a correlation IMO between his rise in power/promotion in the organization, and the devolution the franchise into a complete hopeless joke. I still believe as President/CEO he continues to have a strong say in personnel matters. The hiring of Nix was to get fans off their backs. It was peculiar how many times Wilson stressed "General Manager of FOOTBALL" in the press conference, echoing the exact complaints of the fans. This is why we get people like Levy, Nix, and Gailey as the "best" the Bills can do. They are the only ones who would be willing to allow upper management to have their way. There are a lot of opinions/observations in there, I know, but it is a message board. The reality is, Brandon has been trusted with the organization by Wilson. He is Wilson by extension, and he is teflon. No way he gets fired. If there was a petition with 1,000,000 names, it would end up in Russ Brandon's waste basket.
GG Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 He has been with the team for 17 years, the exact period since the last playoff win. Obviously all of it is nowhere near his fault. There is a correlation IMO between his rise in power/promotion in the organization, and the devolution the franchise into a complete hopeless joke. I still believe as President/CEO he continues to have a strong say in personnel matters. The hiring of Nix was to get fans off their backs. It was peculiar how many times Wilson stressed "General Manager of FOOTBALL" in the press conference, echoing the exact complaints of the fans. This is why we get people like Levy, Nix, and Gailey as the "best" the Bills can do. They are the only ones who would be willing to allow upper management to have their way. There are a lot of opinions/observations in there, I know, but it is a message board. The reality is, Brandon has been trusted with the organization by Wilson. He is Wilson by extension, and he is teflon. No way he gets fired. If there was a petition with 1,000,000 names, it would end up in Russ Brandon's waste basket. I hear you, but it is interesting that most of the top contributors to this team came under Brandon's watch as "GM" I know there was a movement to get football people back in charge at OBD, but the results have been awful. I'm a big devotee to the Moneyball type of management for this franchise, and they were on their way there before they hired Nix. But for all the stability talk that OBD is preaching, the revolving door and lack of true accountability in the front office is what's been holding this franchise back, especially since the TD firing.
LabattBlue Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Agreed. The guy has zero input in regards to what gets put out on the field. Did Brandon have any say in Nix getting hired as GM? If so, he is completely accountable for the product being put on the field. If he didn't have any say in regards to the hiring of Nix, then what exactly is he doing as CEO of this company known as the Buffalo Bills?
T master Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 So the guy makes the team $78 MILLION & you want to fire him , he brings Mario in (which could be open for debate) & you want to fire him ? Now if he was the one that wanted to pay Fitz the big bucks or was the one that chose Maybin in the draft OK i get it but the guy does not make any football decisions he is a marketing guy . Although the Toronto series has been a bust for the fans & players alike if the team was winning i think it would be a bit different & you cna't take away the fact that it made $ 78 MILLION for the team !! I would say that on that point alone the guy stays around a while !!
CodeMonkey Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 So the guy makes the team $78 MILLION & you want to fire him , he brings Mario in (which could be open for debate) & you want to fire him ? Now if he was the one that wanted to pay Fitz the big bucks or was the one that chose Maybin in the draft OK i get it but the guy does not make any football decisions he is a marketing guy . Although the Toronto series has been a bust for the fans & players alike if the team was winning i think it would be a bit different & you cna't take away the fact that it made $ 78 MILLION for the team !! I would say that on that point alone the guy stays around a while !! Yes but you see that doesn't fit into the "I'm mad as hell and demand everyone be fired" mindset,
Wayne Cubed Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 This thread is crazy. So let me get this straight, the Bills playing in Toronto is a disadvantage? Please explain further because as far as I'm aware for the 5 regular season games played it wouldn't have meant jack about the outcome of the season. The Bills haven't been good enough. Simple. Toronto had nothing to do with it. So where's the argument? The only argument that could be made against it was last years game. The only year the Bills came into Toronto with a winning record and then won, but preceded to go into a massive losing streak. So, maybe winning in Toronto caused the losing streak? If you're a conspiracy theorist..
Homey D. Clown Posted December 20, 2012 Author Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) russ brandon is a big reason why the bills have a chance to stay here after ralph goes to the big fieldhouse in the sky Dead Wrong. This thread is crazy. So let me get this straight, the Bills playing in Toronto is a disadvantage? Please explain further because as far as I'm aware for the 5 regular season games played it wouldn't have meant jack about the outcome of the season. The Bills haven't been good enough. Simple. Toronto had nothing to do with it. So where's the argument? The only argument that could be made against it was last years game. The only year the Bills came into Toronto with a winning record and then won, but preceded to go into a massive losing streak. So, maybe winning in Toronto caused the losing streak? If you're a conspiracy theorist.. Explain to me how 9 away games could POSSIBLY ever be an advantage, nevermind how good the team is. Go ahead and try to make sense of that. Yes but you see that doesn't fit into the "I'm mad as hell and demand everyone be fired" mindset, Yeah, ignore the fact the guy IS IN FACT milking the team away from WNY.... nevermind all those actual facts, and thumb your nose at those who actually see this stupid series for what it's worth. So I guess that it has not been overly publicizied, but the new toronto series will call for 2 games, YES 2 games played in Rogers center each year, and that's somehow GOOD for Buffalo? How can Bills fans actually be so blind? Edited December 20, 2012 by McKinleys Curse
CodeMonkey Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Yeah, ignore the fact the guy IS IN FACT milking the team away from WNY.... nevermind all those actual facts, and thumb your nose at those who actually see this stupid series for what it's worth. So I guess that it has not been overly publicizied, but the new toronto series will call for 2 games, YES 2 games played in Rogers center each year, and that's somehow GOOD for Buffalo? How can Bills fans actually be so blind? It would be good for Buffalo (not necessarily the wins/losses for the Bills, but for Buffalo) if this arrangement makes it economically feasible for the new owners to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Anything that makes the balance sheet look better helps this. You seem to be living in a dream world where the Buffalo economy is not among the worst in the country and ignoring the fact that any new ownership will have a big debt load and will be looking closely at the teams profitability when evaluating if it makes sense to keep the Bills in Buffalo or move them to a better economic environment. In a perfect world everyone here would agree that having all games in Buffalo would be preferred. But we do not live in a perfect world and pretending the only thing that matters is wins and losses does not make sense in my opinion. Edited December 20, 2012 by CodeMonkey
Homey D. Clown Posted December 20, 2012 Author Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) It would be good for Buffalo (not necessarily the wins/losses for the Bills, but for Buffalo) if this arrangement makes it economically feasible for the new owners to keep the Bills in Buffalo. Anything that makes the balance sheet look better helps this. You seem to be living in a dream world where the Buffalo economy is not among the worst in the country and ignoring the fact that any new ownership will have a big debt load and will be looking closely at the teams profitability when evaluating if it makes sense to keep the Bills in Buffalo or move them to a better economic environment. In a perfect world everyone here would agree that having all games in Buffalo would be preferred. But we do not live in a perfect world and pretending the only thing that matters is wins and losses does not make sense in my opinion. While the city of Buffalo itsself is not a city on the rise, Russ Brandon has you along with countless others believing that the area cannot support the team any longer. This is in fact very false, and he also has you believing that giving away home games will cure all. It's obvious to me you aren't willing to see this for what it is, so I won't continue boring you with the facts like WNY and southern Ontario population, or a radical concept of selling stadium naming rights, or anything else this bonehead could do OTHER THAN taking away from WNY a Sunday of revenue. yes, let's pretend that game up in rogers center didn't leave an economic void in WNY last Sunday, that's really convenient. FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!! Edited December 20, 2012 by McKinleys Curse
Wayne Cubed Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Explain to me how 9 away games could POSSIBLY ever be an advantage, nevermind how good the team is. Go ahead and try to make sense of that. You ignore the fact that the Bill are just not good. Many good teams year in and year out go 4-4 or 5-3 or heaven forbid 6-2 in road games. The Bills have an extra road game but are still 2-5 in road games this year, 2-6 if you include Toronto. They are 3-3 at home, hardly a home field advantage. Even if this past game was played at home, that's possibly 4-3 at home and still not good enough to get to the playoffs. Last year, the Bills won at Toronto, so we'll put that in the away column since, that's where you place it. 4-3 at home and 2-7 on the road, that's including the Toronto game, so really 1-7. That's horrible. In 2010 2-5 at home and 2-7 on the road. In 2009 3-4 and 3-6 on the road. See what I'm getting at? Even if you add the one game back at home, it's still not good enough. Yea it could have made them 5-3 at home this year, if they win the Seattle game and win the final Jets game. That's still a BIG maybe. Point is, doesn't matter where the games are played. They aren't good. Edited December 20, 2012 by Wayne Cubed
Heitz Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 While the city of Buffalo itsself is not a city on the rise, Russ Brandon has you along with countless others believing that the area cannot support the team any longer. This is in fact very false, and he also has you believing that giving away home games will cure all. It's obvious to me you aren't willing to see this for what it is, so I won't continue boring you with the facts like WNY and southern Ontario population, or a radical concept of selling stadium naming rights, or anything else this bonehead could do OTHER THAN taking away from WNY a Sunday of revenue. yes, let's pretend that game up in rogers center didn't leave an economic void in WNY last Sunday, that's really convenient. FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!! What is your statement or belief based on? It's clear that NFL ticket sales are down and it's a fact that Buffalo has some of the least expensive tickets in the league (which probably means that their luxury boxes, of which they don't have as many as other teams, also sell for less). Even if we sold the naming rights, who is going to pay the price and what are we going to get - $10MM over 5 years? That's nowhere close to the $78MM the Bills got for the Toronto series... Here are the top 20 stadium naming rights deals as of Sept, 2011: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/09/19/In-Depth/Naming-rights-deals.aspx Please, let us know your revenue model beyond naming rights and "anything else"... The Toronto game puts money in the teams pockets and (theoretically) exposes Toronto fans and more importantly, businesses, to the NFL and to Buffalo Bills football. Perhaps in some future world, the team is moved to Niagara Falls, a little closer to Toronto and some of those Toronto companies will drop coin on suites. I also don't see anyone with the Bills saying that Toronto is the "cure all". It's part of a strategy to regionalize the team, just like having Training Camp in Rochester and marketing to towns in the Southern Tier are... I think the Toronto game sucks too, but I'm willing to tolerate it if it keeps the Bills in Buffalo! I actually think the Bills do a good job in the marketing department - training camp is a fan favorite, they've been on point with digital trends (messageboards, App, having Chris Brown do a blog and video segments, player created content, etc.) and they do a good job reaching out to fans (I keep getting calls to buy tickets for games, despite living in Vermont). If we had a winning team, it would definitely help sell tickets, but even when winning those cold-ass December games are tough on fans. Where they could really use some help is in the merch department - not sure who their designers are, but the 80's and 90's called, they want some modern looking gear!
CodeMonkey Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) While the city of Buffalo itsself is not a city on the rise, Russ Brandon has you along with countless others believing that the area cannot support the team any longer. This is in fact very false, and he also has you believing that giving away home games will cure all. It's obvious to me you aren't willing to see this for what it is, so I won't continue boring you with the facts like WNY and southern Ontario population, or a radical concept of selling stadium naming rights, or anything else this bonehead could do OTHER THAN taking away from WNY a Sunday of revenue. yes, let's pretend that game up in rogers center didn't leave an economic void in WNY last Sunday, that's really convenient. FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!! Actually the convenient part is thinking that gameday is a significant source of revenue for the Buffalo area. Except for the people running parking lots around the stadium, and the stadium workers themselves no one is impacted significantly. Thinking that this has any impact on a Buffalo wide economic scale does not have any basis in fact, again in my opinion. And again, in a perfect world I agree having all games in Buffalo is the best possible thing. Edited December 20, 2012 by CodeMonkey
Homey D. Clown Posted December 20, 2012 Author Posted December 20, 2012 You ignore the fact that the Bill are just not good. Many good teams year in and year out go 4-4 or 5-3 or heaven forbid 6-2 in road games. The Bills have an extra road game but are still 2-5 in road games this year, 2-6 if you include Toronto. They are 3-3 at home, hardly a home field advantage. Even if this past game was played at home, that's possibly 4-3 at home and still not good enough to get to the playoffs. Last year, the Bills won at Toronto, so we'll put that in the away column since, that's where you place it. 4-3 at home and 2-7 on the road, that's including the Toronto game, so really 1-7. That's horrible. In 2010 2-5 at home and 2-7 on the road. In 2009 3-4 and 3-6 on the road. See what I'm getting at? Even if you add the one game back at home, it's still not good enough. Yea it could have made them 5-3 at home this year, if they win the Seattle game and win the final Jets game. That's still a BIG maybe. Point is, doesn't matter where the games are played. They aren't good. the simple fact is that home field advantage is a very REAL thing, and you are an advocate of the Bills giving away that advantage 1-2 times a year. Point is, that's not good for the team regardless of how the team has been performing, there is nothing you can say to change the fact that playing more away games could be good for this team.
Wayne Cubed Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 the simple fact is that home field advantage is a very REAL thing, and you are an advocate of the Bills giving away that advantage 1-2 times a year. Point is, that's not good for the team regardless of how the team has been performing, there is nothing you can say to change the fact that playing more away games could be good for this team. I never said home field advantage wasn't real. But did you look at the stats: 2012: 3-3, 2011: 4-3, 2010: 2-5, 2009: 3-4. That's the home records. Besides 2011, 1 more game at home wouldn't have given them any real advantage. If the Bills were 6-1 or 5-2 and they had one more game at home making them 7-1 or 6-2 at home. Those would be advantages. Wouldn't have to win as many away games, but they are just not that good that one more home game would make a difference. They are still terrible on the road and home.
Joe W Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 i'd hesitate on using those numbers as Rogers officials have acknowledged this year that previous games were papered, and the attendance figures provided were tickets issued. this year, it was Rogers policy to reduce ticket giveaways to fill the house. the tickets sold were going to be the tickets sold. if Brandon is correct in suggesting this is the best Toronto's done in regards to ticket sales, than it's worrisome to imagine how many tickets they had actually sold for the previous games. jw How does Branden get away with his lies. Heres' from the Toronro Star: The announced attendance last Sunday, when the Seattle Seahawks pasted the ever-lousy Bills, was 40,770. A man who knows suggested “way under” 40,000 tickets were sold and tales of day-game giveaways are common Brandens not only a liar but an idiot. Get rid of him. JW
Homey D. Clown Posted December 20, 2012 Author Posted December 20, 2012 I never said home field advantage wasn't real. But did you look at the stats: 2012: 3-3, 2011: 4-3, 2010: 2-5, 2009: 3-4. That's the home records. Besides 2011, 1 more game at home wouldn't have given them any real advantage. If the Bills were 6-1 or 5-2 and they had one more game at home making them 7-1 or 6-2 at home. Those would be advantages. Wouldn't have to win as many away games, but they are just not that good that one more home game would make a difference. They are still terrible on the road and home. If you agree that home field advantage is in fact real, why then would you even want the Bills to play 7 as opposed to the 8 every other team gets? and no, this is not about how bad them team has played in any way, it's about being put at a very real disadvantage. And I could easily argue the Bears game might have turned out differently if played in Orchard Park, but that's another discussion for another thread.
Joe W Posted December 20, 2012 Posted December 20, 2012 If Rogers is cutting their payment by more than one-half, there;s no financial gain to offset losing home field advntage. Brandon however is locked in to this fiasco plus he would have to sell another 73k of ticket inventory insuring 4 tv blackouts next year. Rogers is playing hardball with him and everything will be done to their terms including no preseason games in Toronto.
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