Elementary school shootings in CT: Principal, multiple students killed

[/dev/null]

This might deserve it's own thread but some might see it in poor taste

 

Would ya?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/newtown-teacher-vicki-soto-remembered-article-1.1221004

 

 

Hellz yeah

[UConn James]

And still, there's a time when it's necessary to show a modicum of respect and period of reflection in the wake of tragedy without being a total *.

 

Even here on PPP, this applies.

[Coach Tuesday]

It's not religion that inflicts violence, just like it's not a weapon that does it. It's the people, that misuse religion, or weapons, or any other cause to incite violence that are the problem.

A cause, or belief, just like an object, is inanimate, and can't possibly create chaos on it's own.

 

I was responding to the post that suggested that More Jesus = Less Violence in Society. You're just stating a useless tautology. Throughout two millennia, horrible violence has been inflicted by *people* (yes, the ideas didn't do it themselves, thank you for that clarification) who tried to force More Jesus on other people. Go tell the Jews who suffered through the Spanish Inquisition that it wasn't Christianity that was the problem, it was the Spanish. It's a useless point.

[3rdnlng]

Wrong. You grasp nothing. I disagreed with the one poster (jauronimo) about the media and a made crack just like a 1,000 other cracks littering this board... When all the babies started to whine and cry about it being political (which it barely was, if even)... I decided not to defend my argument about it being political... I decided just to shut you thin skin losers up by saing: "Suck it up, even if it is political, we are still on PPP and stop your bellyaching." In other words" "Grow a set." My God, you are making a mountain out of mole hill just like you did a few days ago. My message has not change... When I am here on PPP, I will make it political anytime I want to. Now stop being an ass.

 

Your mind just sort of flits from place to place, now doesn't it? I'm making a mountain out of a molehill? You are the one typing all these words trying to explain yourself.

[LeviF]

The more I hear about the guy's mother, the more I'm glad she's dead too.

[B-Man]

 

 

Do Civilians Armed With Guns Ever Capture, Kill, or Otherwise Stop Mass Shooters?

 

Eugene Volokh • December 14, 2012 3:32 pm

 

Backers of laws that let pretty much all law-abiding carry concealed guns in public places often argue that these laws will sometimes enable people to stop mass shootings. Opponents occasionally ask: If that’s so, what examples can one give of civilians armed with guns stopping such shootings? Sometimes, I hear people asking if even one such example can be found, or saying that they haven’t heard even one such example.

 

Naturally, such examples will be rare, partly because mass shootings are rare, partly because many mass shootings happen in supposedly “gun-free” zones (such as schools, universities, or private property posted with a no-guns sign) in which gun carrying isn’t allowed, and partly for other reasons. Moreover, at least some examples are contested, because it might be unclear — as you’ll see below — whether the shooter had been planning to kill more people when he was stopped. But here are instances that I have seen, not counting killings stopped by people who were off-duty police officers (or police officers from other jurisdictions) at the time of the shooting.

 

1. In Pearl, Mississippi in 1997, 16-year-old Luke Woodham stabbed and bludgeoned to death his mother at home, then killed two students and injured seven at his high school. As he was leaving the school, he was stopped by Assistant Principal Joel Myrick, who had gone out to get a handgun from his car. I have seen sources that state that Woodham was on the way to Pearl Junior High School to continue shooting, though I couldn’t find any contemporaneous news articles that so state.

 

2. In Edinboro, Pennsylvania in 1996, 14-year-old Andrew Wurst shot and killed a teacher at a school dance, and shot and injured several other students. He had just left the dance hall, carrying his gun — possibly to attack more people, though the stories that I’ve seen are unclear — when he was confronted by the dance hall owner James Strand, who lived next door and kept a shotgun at home. It’s not clear whether Wurst was planning to kill others, would have gotten into a gun battle with the police, or would have otherwise killed more people had Strand not stopped him.

 

3. In Winnemucca, Nevada in 2008, Ernesto Villagomez killed two people and wounded two others in a bar filled with three hundred people. He was then shot and killed by a patron who was carrying a gun (and had a concealed carry license). It’s not clear whether Villagomez would have killed more people; the killings were apparently the result of a family feud, and I could see no information on whether Villagomez had more names on his list, nor could one tell whether he would have killed more people in trying to evade capture.

 

4. In Colorado Springs in 2007, Matthew Murray killed four people at a church. He was then shot several times by Jeanne Assam, a church member, volunteer security guard, and former police officer (she had been dismissed by a police department 10 years before, and to my knowledge hadn’t worked as a police officer since). Murray, knocked down and badly wounded, killed himself; it is again not clear whether he would have killed more people had he not been wounded, but my guess is that he would have.

 

So it appears that civilians armed with guns are sometimes willing to intervene to stop someone who had just committed a mass shooting in public. In what fraction of mass shootings would such interventions happen, if gun possession were allowed in the places where the shootings happen? We don’t know. In what fraction would interventions prevent more killings and injuries, as opposed to capturing or killing the murderer after he’s already done? We don’t know. In what fraction would interventions lead to more injuries to bystanders? Again, we don’t know.

 

 

Finally, always keep in mind that mass shootings in public places should not be the main focus in the gun debate, whether for gun control or gun decontrol: They on average account for much less than 1% of all homicides in the U.S., and are unusually hard to stop through gun control laws (since the killer is bent on committing a publicly visible murder and is thus unlikely to be much deterred by gun control law, or by the prospect of encountering an armed bystander).

 

 

.

Edited December 16, 2012 by B-Man

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Suspect in massacre tried to buy rifle days before, sources say

 

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-sandy-hook-gunman-tried-to-buy-rifile-days-before-20121215,0,5913090.story

[birdog1960]

I was responding to the post that suggested that More Jesus = Less Violence in Society. You're just stating a useless tautology. Throughout two millennia, horrible violence has been inflicted by *people* (yes, the ideas didn't do it themselves, thank you for that clarification) who tried to force More Jesus on other people. Go tell the Jews who suffered through the Spanish Inquisition that it wasn't Christianity that was the problem, it was the Spanish. It's a useless point.

i don't think anyone would argue against the fact that atrocities have been committed in the name of God or of a specific religion. but there have been many great things done by religions and their followers and continue to be. many examples are ordinary, everyday acts that the rank and file do daily throughout their lives. those lives are an important part of the moral fabric of many successful societies. a few at the powerful stations have poisoned the well with devastating results but that doesn't implicate the philosophical foundations of christianity or of any of the other major belief systems in the world. as far as i know, they all believe in the presence of evil and the people who are empowered are particularly susceptible to it.

 

regarding your statement that religion enables absolutism, i would reply that this is a gross generalization and oversimplification. Some of the spiritual figures that i most admire (eg mother theresa) have questioned the very existence of God at times in their lives yet continued their good works. critical thinking is an important part of a great many peoples spirituality. it's taught successfully and continually at many fine religion based universities.

[Adam]

i don't think anyone would argue against the fact that atrocities have been committed in the name of God or of a specific religion. but there have been many great things done by religions and their followers and continue to be. many examples are ordinary, everyday acts that the rank and file do daily throughout their lives. those lives are an important part of the moral fabric of many successful societies. a few at the powerful stations have poisoned the well with devastating results but that doesn't implicate the philosophical foundations of christianity or of any of the other major belief systems in the world. as far as i know, they all believe in the presence of evil and the people who are empowered are particularly susceptible to it.

 

regarding your statement that religion enables absolutism, i would reply that this is a gross generalization and oversimplification. Some of the spiritual figures that i most admire (eg mother theresa) have questioned the very existence of God at times in their lives yet continued their good works. critical thinking is an important part of a great many peoples spirituality. it's taught successfully and continually at many fine religion based universities.

I will add that religion combined with absolutism is a bad thing. Anything combined with absolutism usually is.

[B-Man]

i don't think anyone would argue against the fact that atrocities have been committed in the name of God or of a specific religion. but there have been many great things done by religions and their followers and continue to be. many examples are ordinary, everyday acts that the rank and file do daily throughout their lives. those lives are an important part of the moral fabric of many successful societies. a few at the powerful stations have poisoned the well with devastating results but that doesn't implicate the philosophical foundations of christianity or of any of the other major belief systems in the world. as far as i know, they all believe in the presence of evil and the people who are empowered are particularly susceptible to it.

 

regarding your statement that religion enables absolutism, i would reply that this is a gross generalization and oversimplification. Some of the spiritual figures that i most admire (eg mother theresa) have questioned the very existence of God at times in their lives yet continued their good works. critical thinking is an important part of a great many peoples spirituality. it's taught successfully and continually at many fine religion based universities.

 

Two Thumbs waaaay up for a terrific reply.

 

Not that you probably care (or should.....lol) but I don't usually agree with your posts, bd , I only wish I could have replied as clearly and definitely as you did there. A fine defense of people's religious belief without overdoing it either way.

 

 

.

 

 

.

[Adam]

 

 

Two Thumbs waaaay up for a terrific reply.

 

Not that you probably care (or should.....lol) but I don't usually agree with your posts, bd , I only wish I could have replied as clearly and definitely as you did there. A fine defense of people's religious belief without overdoing it either way.

 

 

.

 

 

.

It is a minority that gives religion a bad name. As a matter of fact, most of the people who are the problem, have little to do with their professed religions: just look at Osama Bin Laden and Fred Phelps.

[B-Man]

It is a minority that gives religion a bad name. As a matter of fact, most of the people who are the problem, have little to do with their professed religions: just look at Osama Bin Laden and Fred Phelps.

 

Yipes, I'm agreeing with Adam also.................Maybe I've picked up a bug of some sort........lol

 

Funny, you should mention that POS, Fred Phelps....

 

Westboro Baptist to protest Newtown?

 

As if things weren’t bad enough in Newtown, Connecticut already, word has begun circulating that they may be the recipients of some unsavory and most decidedly unwelcome “guests” today in connection with President Obama’s visit. The members of Westboro Baptist Church, (yes… those guys again) are apparently threatening to protest at the funerals of the slain children.

 

Words simply can not describe how disgusting this would be nor the possible reaction to it. But the Westboro clan won’t have all smooth sailing. Members of Reddit are planning a counter-march to block them if they show up. The Phelps folk have attracted some enemies of their own as well, including one of the most odd pairings I can recall seeing. The hacker group Anonymous has set their sights on Westboro, already hacking their web siteand releasing the personal details of their members.

The hacking collective known as Anonymous renewed their war on the Westboro Baptist Church today. After the haters from the infamous church posted their intentions to picket the funerals of the twenty children killed in the shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, Anonymous responded by

re-posting the personal and professional information for members of the church

on the Internet. Now the general public can contact the church members directly and tell them what they think about people who would desecrate the funerals of murdered children.

 

No matter how revolting this entire situation becomes, I still have one question about the key players here. Does the Baptist Church have any measure of control over who uses their name? I know that when there is a new Catholic church erected, closed or moved, there’s a rather lengthy process involved so they maintain some level of control over their locations. Do the Baptists have nothing similar, or can just anyone go throw a sign up on their garage proclaiming it a Baptist Church and begin slaughtering chickens? It just seems to me that they would have distanced themselves entirely from these Phelps idiots by now if they have any control over it.

 

http://hotair.com/ar...rotest-newtown/

Edited December 16, 2012 by B-Man

[Adam]

 

 

Yipes, I'm agreeing with Adam also.................Maybe I've picked up a bug of some sort........lol

 

Funny, you should mention that POS, Fred Phelps....

 

 

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/12/16/westboro-baptst-to-protest-newtown/

Read about it last night. There is a petition to declare them a hate group. I signed it, but I think terrorist group is more fitting.

[meazza]

i don't think anyone would argue against the fact that atrocities have been committed in the name of God or of a specific religion. but there have been many great things done by religions and their followers and continue to be. many examples are ordinary, everyday acts that the rank and file do daily throughout their lives. those lives are an important part of the moral fabric of many successful societies. a few at the powerful stations have poisoned the well with devastating results but that doesn't implicate the philosophical foundations of christianity or of any of the other major belief systems in the world. as far as i know, they all believe in the presence of evil and the people who are empowered are particularly susceptible to it.

 

regarding your statement that religion enables absolutism, i would reply that this is a gross generalization and oversimplification. Some of the spiritual figures that i most admire (eg mother theresa) have questioned the very existence of God at times in their lives yet continued their good works. critical thinking is an important part of a great many peoples spirituality. it's taught successfully and continually at many fine religion based universities.

 

+1

[birdog1960]

i appreciate the support but yall may be sorry you've emboldened me (even more). hopefully, without get preachy, i'll mention another living inspirational figure. with news like this from connecticut, i find stories like these http://www.amazon.com/Gospel-Father-Joe-Revolutions-Revelations/dp/0470258632/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=135 a comfort. i've met the author of this book and he credits this man with changing his life.

 

 

ok, i'll shut up now....

[ExiledInIllinois]

Just read that the Westboro people are going to show up to picket at the school. Those hate mangers need to go away.

 

And rightly so that they (Westboro) are a bunch of dickweeds. Yet, normal political discourse should not be frowned upon or viewed as disrespectful when applied in the proper setting and forum. Most of the hurt feelings here on PPP have nothing to do with showing respect... It is a cop out.

 

Again... As anybody noticed that there are two threads about this? One on PPP and one on OTW? That has to be a first for TBD... Or one of the first.

 

People just want to make a mountain out out of a very lame mole hill (my reply)... Now they are all crying and hurt because the same **** they spew was thrown back in their already solied face.

 

Now... You know... Who the snitches are, the ones who dish the **** and then go to the mods and cry foul. To the so called libertarians on this board, my advice is if you are going to talk the talk, walk the walk...

Edited December 16, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois

[Adam]

 

 

And rightly so that they (Westboro) are a bunch of dickweeds. Yet, normal political discourse should not be frowned upon or viewed as disrespectful when applied in the proper setting and forum. Most of the hurt feelings here on PPP have nothing to do with showing respect... It is a cop out.

 

Again... As anybody noticed that there are two threads about this? One on PPP and one on OTW? That has to be a first for TBD... Or one of the first.

 

People just want to make a mountain out out of a very lame mole hill (my reply)... Now they are all crying and hurt because the same **** they spew was thrown back in their already solied face.

 

Now... You know... Who the snitches are, the ones who dish the **** and then go to the mods and cry foul. To the so called libertarians on this board, my advice is if you are going to talk the talk, walk the walk...

I didn't do anything I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no problem with you at all. Who went to mods?

[ExiledInIllinois]

And still, there's a time when it's necessary to show a modicum of respect and period of reflection in the wake of tragedy without being a total *.

 

Even here on PPP, this applies.

 

Speaking for myself... And that I did, stay respectful, through the thread. You heard what the founder of this board had to say... For crying out loud, he hasn't chimed in 8 or 9 years... 8 or 9 years!

 

I am @ peace with you UConn... Stay true to your beliefs...

 

For crying out loud... There is a poster here advocating that the shooter should have "lit up Congress" instead... And nary a peep... Now you wonder why hate spreads, anti-gov 't sentiment spreads. If anything, the board management should be worried about **** like that being said... Not normal political discourse on an already dedicated political board. "Lighting up Congress" is not normal thinking.

 

 

I didn't do anything I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no problem with you at all. Who went to mods?

 

Nobody. AND that is the right thing to do. NEVER go to a mod. I tied this into the pinned thread that was removed... Gotta read the whole thread, especially the early part.

 

 

 

Your mind just sort of flits from place to place, now doesn't it? I'm making a mountain out of a molehill? You are the one typing all these words trying to explain yourself.

 

Yeah... Because you dunces won't get it. I am not going to be The Riddler here... Cryptic... This is too an important of a topic. You keep on bringing it back... You sure you are not Rich in Ohio? You act like him big time.

 

 

I will add that religion combined with absolutism is a bad thing. Anything combined with absolutism usually is.

 

Well said.

[Adam]

 

 

Speaking for myself... And that I did, stay respectful, through the thread. You heard what the founder of this board had to say... For crying out loud, he hasn't chimed in 8 or 9 years... 8 or 9 years!

 

I am @ peace with you UConn... Stay true to your beliefs...

 

For crying out loud... There is a poster here advocating that the shooter should have "lit up Congress" instead... And nary a peep... Now you wonder why hate spreads, anti-gov 't sentiment spreads. If anything, the board management should be worried about **** like that being said... Not normal political discourse on an already dedicated political board. "Lighting up Congress" is not normal thinking.

 

 

 

Nobody. AND that is the right thing to do. NEVER go to a mod. I tied this into the pinned thread that was removed... Gotta read the whole thread, especially the early part.

 

 

 

Yeah... Because you dunces won't get it. I am not going to be The Riddler here... Cryptic... This is too an important of a topic. You keep on bringing it back... You sure you are not Rich in Ohio? You act like him big time.

 

 

 

Well said.

I agree with the part about the post that said he should go not Congress. I try to tune out that drivel and didn't even want to acknowledge it.

 

Last night you responded to one of my posts- I think you believed my post was aimed at you, but it wasn't. I decided to let that die down.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

I agree with the part about the post that said he should go not Congress. I try to tune out that drivel and didn't even want to acknowledge it.

 

Last night you responded to one of my posts- I think you believed my post was aimed at you, but it wasn't. I decided to let that die down.

 

I am sorry Adam. Please accept my apologies for aiming it @ you. 3rd, being the butt head they are keeps on beating a dead horse. Standard MO for somebody like 3rd. I will let it go and let them have the last word...