Justice Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Not that I want to go there, at all, but Christianity has inflicted violence throughout history... As have other religions. And the notion that more religion would mean less absolutism - I mean geez, the opposite is true. I couldn't disagree more. Christianity had nothing to do with the violence you speak of. Religion is flawed because of man, not religion.
Adam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 It's a tired argument, dude. The other countries of the world have proved it wrong. Time to let it go. Yes, but guns haven't been legal in those countries for over 200 years. It gets a bit complicated at that point. It would be nice, if we could just put them all away. I couldn't disagree more. Christianity had nothing to do with the violence you speak of. Religion is flawed because of man, not religion. All people are flawed, even the good ones. All religions are flawed, because they are created by people.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I couldn't disagree more. Christianity had nothing to do with the violence you speak of. Religion is flawed because of man, not religion. Are you joking?
Adam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) Are you joking? I'm not Christian, but from what I can see, so many Christians (and people of other religions) forget the principles part of their religion, and get too hooked on the ideology. That, can lead to violence Edited December 16, 2012 by Adam
....lybob Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I couldn't disagree more. Christianity had nothing to do with the violence you speak of. Religion is flawed because of man, not religion. religion is a product of man, no omnipotent loving deity wrote something like The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." or For I will shake the heavens. The earth will move from its place when the LORD of Heaven's Armies displays his wrath in the day of his fierce anger. They will be like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with no one to gather them, each will turn to his own people, and each will flee to his own land. Whoever is found will be stabbed, and whoever is caught will die by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives raped. Their bows will dash the young men to pieces; they'll show no pity on those not yet born, and their eyes will not spare children. I don't know the Koran but I'm sure it shares similar lovely sentiments.
Adam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 religion is a product of man, no omnipotent loving deity wrote something like or I don't know the Koran but I'm sure it shares similar lovely sentiments. All those books do. They were written by men who want to manipulate others. It has worked.
Fezmid Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Well, if you were to put even 4 or 5 armed security personnel in each school, would that reduce the number of incidents and/or the number of fatalities. I strongly suspect it would. Is that worth it? You tell me. How much is the safety of our kids worth? It's not worth $30B. If this went into effect, more people will just do shootings in malls. Or ballparks. Or churches. Or... or... or... Anywhere that people congregate is potentially a target and you can't "secure" each and every target. So that $30B would be completely wasted. (If we had unlimited resources, that'd be one thing - but we don't. And just like airport "security" hasn't improved our safety, neither would this option)
Cinga Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Not that I want to go there, at all, but Christianity has inflicted violence throughout history... As have other religions. And the notion that more religion would mean less absolutism - I mean geez, the opposite is true. It's not religion that inflicts violence, just like it's not a weapon that does it. It's the people, that misuse religion, or weapons, or any other cause to incite violence that are the problem. A cause, or belief, just like an object, is inanimate, and can't possibly create chaos on it's own. Yes, but guns haven't been legal in those countries for over 200 years. It gets a bit complicated at that point. It would be nice, if we could just put them all away. All people are flawed, even the good ones. All religions are flawed, because they are created by people. Many so called "religions" are, as you say, created by man. But there are 3 major "religions" that disagree. While I have personal misgivings of one of those, it is argued by most, that are all inspired by G-d Himself. But the term itself, "religion", I would argue is the doctrine of man, and NOT G-d.... It's the people, not the "religion", and the doctrine of man, unfortunately, makes an easy target to disparage. YES, many men have done wrong in the name of "religion" over the centuries. But it's US!!! Not the Faith that does wrong...
LeviF Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Religion Life is flawed because of man, not religion life. This. People suck. Also: broadened for accuracy.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Wow, that's some change in attitude after your posts in the first couple of pages in this thread. After all, you did tell me to "grow a pair" after I admonished you for immediately politicizing the massacre. I am not sure why I am even responding... You do not seem to be grasping things. "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference."
Adam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 It's not religion that inflicts violence, just like it's not a weapon that does it. It's the people, that misuse religion, or weapons, or any other cause to incite violence that are the problem. A cause, or belief, just like an object, is inanimate, and can't possibly create chaos on it's own. Many so called "religions" are, as you say, created by man. But there are 3 major "religions" that disagree. While I have personal misgivings of one of those, it is argued by most, that are all inspired by G-d Himself. But the term itself, "religion", I would argue is the doctrine of man, and NOT G-d.... It's the people, not the "religion", and the doctrine of man, unfortunately, makes an easy target to disparage. YES, many men have done wrong in the name of "religion" over the centuries. But it's US!!! Not the Faith that does wrong... I disagree with those religions on that, but not enough to really care. Live and let live. My fairy tale is no better than theirs.
3rdnlng Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) I am not sure why I am even responding... You do not seem to be grasping things. "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference." I grasped very well that you started out making this about politics and then the next day changed your tune completely. You were also called out by others on your politicizing. Edited December 16, 2012 by 3rdnlng
Adam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I grasped very well that you started out making this about politics and then the next day changed your tune completely. You were also called out by others on you politicizing. I see this in here and quite a bit on Facebook- everybody is politicizing and injecting religion. Some call for more guns, others call for more regulations. Some call for God in school others blame religion. Everyone shouting their solution without caring to know what happened. So typical........every tragedy is an opportunity for some.
meazza Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) I see this in here and quite a bit on Facebook- everybody is politicizing and injecting religion. Some call for more guns, others call for more regulations. Some call for God in school others blame religion. Everyone shouting their solution without caring to know what happened. So typical........every tragedy is an opportunity for some. I'm sick of it. I just spent the evening with family including my nephews and cousins and they are all under the age of 5. I couldn't imagine what I would do if something like this ever happened to someone close to me. And then King Dickwad Bill Maher speaks : Sorry but prayers and giving your kids hugs fix nothing; only having the balls to stand up to our insane selfish gun culture will. FU Edited December 16, 2012 by meazza
Adam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I'm sick of it. I just spent the evening with family including my nephews and cousins and they are all under the age of 5. I couldn't imagine what I would do if something like this ever happened to someone close to me. Someone from ESPN radio had two guys debating politics on a post she put on her Facebook about the tragedy. Very sad she had to intercede and tell them to cut it out.
meazza Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Jesus http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/15/police-arrested-teen-plotting-attack-on-oklahoma-school-just-hours-before-newtown-shooting/
Adam Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 Just read that the Westboro people are going to show up to picket at the school. Those hate mangers need to go away.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I grasped very well that you started out making this about politics and then the next day changed your tune completely. You were also called out by others on you politicizing. Wrong. You grasp nothing. I disagreed with the one poster (jauronimo) about the media and a made crack just like a 1,000 other cracks littering this board... When all the babies started to whine and cry about it being political (which it barely was, if even)... I decided not to defend my argument about it being political... I decided just to shut you thin skin losers up by saing: "Suck it up, even if it is political, we are still on PPP and stop your bellyaching." In other words" "Grow a set." My God, you are making a mountain out of mole hill just like you did a few days ago. My message has not change... When I am here on PPP, I will make it political anytime I want to. Now stop being an ass.
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 16, 2012 Posted December 16, 2012 I see this in here and quite a bit on Facebook- everybody is politicizing and injecting religion. Some call for more guns, others call for more regulations. Some call for God in school others blame religion. Everyone shouting their solution without caring to know what happened. So typical........every tragedy is an opportunity for some. Adam... ONCE AGAIN: THIS BOARD WAS BUILT SPECIFICALLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF TURNING THINGS POLITICAL (which I barely did, if even that)... There should have been no bellyaching about it being political and hence a cry for decorum. People should have just argued against my point or just STFU. The member who is solely responsible for inveting this board 10+ years ago has even chimed in against all the whining and crying for decorum. Go back and read the thread. Have you even seen the most recently pinned thread? Did you read the whole thing? If there is ONE place in the this whole world that is built for what people are crying about... It is here... You want decorum? Go to the OTW thread on this topic. When will you people get it!
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