Better team now than three years ago?

[buffalover4life]

i think out talent level is better. I also think every team in the league has continued to get better. NFL players are playing at a higher level now than they were 3 years ago.

[HamSandwhich]

I'll take a winning season over any losing season...when is that gonna happen?

 

That's what we're here to do, I agree. I hate it just like the rest of us here, it sucks we havent been winning, but I dont think its from lack of talent. Earlier in the year the D was horrid, they were learning a new system, had a plethora of new players, and they just werent jelling. The O was on top of it though, keeping us in games. As the season wore on, and we found that the O was taking too much risks and having too many turnovers, we started being more careful on O and the D started to come around. Now the D is a stallwort and a top 5 D recently, but the offence has not been able to turn it on again like they had at the beginning of the season. Their growth seems to have been stunted by having to turn inward with the horrbile play of the D early in the year.

 

Now, since we know the D can play well together, we just need to sign our starters back, pick up a new QB that we can groom, and hopefully, after a full TC where the O can regain its confidence, all cylanders will be working next year. Another year for this D to jell will do wonders IMO! The offense will get back Nelson, and will have a new year to prove their ability. We've seen the O go at a high level, now just be consistent. Oh, and GET CJ THE BALL!!!

[KeisterHollow]

^^^ This

 

I'll add to this statement by saying the opinion of Fitz by Nix/Gailey is what disabled the upgrade at QB...Nix said it in his interview this AM on WGR when asked about Russell Wilson...He said they liked Wilson a lot, but felt the need for a speed WR was greater in the 3rd Round...That statement speaks volumes about the way Nix/Gailey evaluated the QB position here...Sure it's time to Draft a QB now...Their backs are against the wall and they know it...It's got nothing to do with solidifying the future and blah, blah, blah...It's got everything to do with the fact that they now know internally Fitz is not gonna be the guy for long...And now, after 3 years, they have laser focus...That's fine when you're fortunate enough to get in a position to Draft a Luck, RGIII, Cam Newton...We'll see if The Bills get lucky enough in this next Draft...But to be perfectly honest I'm concerned about how they have backed themselves into this QB corner...That's why I think they should take two in 2013...Just my opinion...

 

Thank You! We should all be concerned about the Bills ability to evaluate talent. It is one of their top 2 problems. I've said it before...and here I go again - the most detrimental problem with Buffalo is their lack of an Identity. Identity is simply a vision of what you want your team to look like on the field. An example or two would be the Pittsburgh Steelers - the way they are always able to find the next great LB; it's not that they have the best LB evaluators, but rather, they know how they want their linebackers to play, and what they want their linebackers to look like. So, come draft day, they can look at the college guys and pick out probably 3-5 linebackers in every draft that are capable of filling that role. Same thing with the Patriots. They know what they want their players to look like, so they can easily spot the qualities in the draft, and they are consequently able to seemingly "plug in" anyone and get the job done.

 

Buffalo, on the other hand, has had no Identity in a long, long time. It's evident in their flip flopping of defensive schemes. One contrast here, to that point, is how Wannstedt came in and said, "I need this kind of guy". Wannstedt knows exactly what type of defense he wants, and that is why we went out and got Mario and Anderson. The question with our defense isn't about identity, but rather about whether or not Dave's defense is good enough to match up against the better offenses in the NFL.

 

Identity takes a few years to install/instill. Look at San Fran - their defense wasn't considered imposing until they got Harbaugh in there. Now, after this second year, everyone knows what San Fran is all about. It is a team with a tough, hard hitting Defense that will run the ball on you, and use the run to set up the pass. That is their Identity, and they'll draft guys who fit that mold.

 

Buffalo finally has a "mold" on defense. But, what is our offensive Identity? We know what Gailey likes to do offensively, but do we know what Gailey's ideal team would look like? Might Gailey's offense be better if he could hand pick a QB? Whatever the problem is - if he doesn't figure out how to make it better, and consistently, then he is in trouble. I, for one, wouldn't even wait - I'd get rid of him. However, I believe because Nix has used his previous drafts to mostly reinforce the Defense, that he'll give Gailey the benefit of a draft, that he'll get Gailey a QB and another WR, and probably a backup Center.

 

In fact, my prediction for Buffalo's offseason is this: We'll go out and Draft a LB in the first round, a QB in the second, and either through F.A. or the draft add yet another LB, and a bigger WR. I think that is what Nix sees as our weaknesses, and that he'll go into next year as his prove it year, saying he's set the team up for success, has built the team, and will hand over the reigns to Whaley after next year.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Gailey has stated that this team is better than the team he inherited three years ago. Perhaps we do have a better OL and DL and a potential elite RB. But our record clearly shows we are not any closer to being a playoff contending team than we were when he and Nix arrived. If anything our record has shown we have regressed. Do you think Gailey is correct in his evaluation or is he delusional?

What do you expect ? What would you say if you were the head coach?

[Adam]

Gailey has stated that this team is better than the team he inherited three years ago. Perhaps we do have a better OL and DL and a potential elite RB. But our record clearly shows we are not any closer to being a playoff contending team than we were when he and Nix arrived. If anything our record has shown we have regressed. Do you think Gailey is correct in his evaluation or is he delusional?

If we had drafted Russell Wilson and he was able to perform at the level he is in Seattle, we would be in position for a wildcard.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Lynch has made a probowl and been to the playoffs, Spiller has not. We should have kept Lynch. The Spiller pick was stupid. If Spiller was blowing away Lynch and scoring a bunch more TDs then I could justify the pick. He was supposed to be the "home run" back. He isn't. Chan doesn't use him enough. Is that because Chan doesn't trust him? Spiller doesn;t know the playbook? Spiller gets winded? Not sure. The point is, We are not better off today than we were 3 years ago. Spiller is roughly equivalent to Lynch and cost a top ten pick. That's a high price for little no improvement.

 

Setting aside the discussion of who is the better back, you seem to constantly forget that Lynch's time in Buffalo was done. It wasn't gonna be remediated or rehabilitated. He had to go.

 

Lynch hit and run a person on Chippewa.

 

There were rampant rumors that he brought his own booze into clubs and wouldn't buy drinks at the bar.

 

His Mom didn't like it here and ditched town after living here the first year.

 

He was accused by the wife of a law enforcement officer of stealing money from her and there were other similar rumors.

 

Lynch did not like being in Buffalo and there were lots of Buffalonians who didn't like Lynch.

 

If you want to actually have an honest discussion, why don't you address some of these issues?

 

Don't confuse MORE talent with DIFFERENT talent.

 

Don't confuse WORSE record with WORSE talent.

 

The numerous poorer record/poorer talent people who are incapable of actually judging talent are totally ignoring the numerous people in this thread who've attributed the worse record to POORER COACHING.

 

Apparently the anger towards the organization is preventing people from even trying to have an objective conversation.

 

The "let's go to the Stadium Wall and vent our anger" people sadly overpopulating this board.

[Section242]

I think the talent is better. Still it's a QB league and the Bills don't have one. Gailey and Fitz mine as well be Jauron and Edwards.

[Shoto]

Three times zero is still zero

[Sisyphean Bills]

So, you think the Lynch of old would have been the same way. You have to take it in context of their own seasons, not how they're doing now.

 

Disagree, on the grounds we are talking about talent. Lynch has the same talent as he has ever had.

[NoSaint]

 

 

Totally disagree. The constraint that anyone "has" to compare Lynch of 3 years ago to Spiller of today is whimsical and arbitrary. Why not say we should compare Lynch this year to Spiller when he was in 8th grade then.

 

The question is compare today's team to the team 3 years ago. Similarly I wouldn't compare mario to fat retired schobel. I'd compare our defensive ends ability (physical talent, fit to system he is in, effectiveness of said system, etc...) to the same of Aaron schobel 3 years ago on that roster.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The question is compare today's team to the team 3 years ago. Similarly I wouldn't compare mario to fat retired schobel. I'd compare our defensive ends ability (physical talent, fit to system he is in, effectiveness of said system, etc...) to the same of Aaron schobel 3 years ago on that roster.

 

I misunderstood Ham and revised accordingly. So many posters have said that "the team has more talent". Talent is not something that comes and goes, in my opinion. I don't think Wood is more talented now than he was as a rookie. He has more experience now. He's had more injuries. He's playing at a different position. But, he's not "more talented" than himself. It is by this then that I meant comparing different seasons is perfectly acceptable. If one judged Brett Favre's talent based on his stint with his first NFL team, one would have to say he sucked. It wasn't until he was coached up and put in a system that he could thrive in that he became a Hall-of-Fame player. Similarly for Steve Young. So, having watched Marshawn play this season, I can say the guy is a stud and a very talented football player. He's been pulling the load for his team. If I ignore that data, then I don't really have a very good picture of his innate talent. Hope this explains what I meant more clearly. Sorry to Ham for the misunderstanding.

 

As far as if the team is strictly better, we'll know in 3 weeks; but, so far their record says, "meh".

[JPS]

Setting aside the discussion of who is the better back, you seem to constantly forget that Lynch's time in Buffalo was done. It wasn't gonna be remediated or rehabilitated. He had to go.

 

Lynch hit and run a person on Chippewa.

 

There were rampant rumors that he brought his own booze into clubs and wouldn't buy drinks at the bar.

 

His Mom didn't like it here and ditched town after living here the first year.

 

He was accused by the wife of a law enforcement officer of stealing money from her and there were other similar rumors.

 

Lynch did not like being in Buffalo and there were lots of Buffalonians who didn't like Lynch.

 

If you want to actually have an honest discussion, why don't you address some of these issues?

 

 

 

Don't confuse WORSE record with WORSE talent.

 

The numerous poorer record/poorer talent people who are incapable of actually judging talent are totally ignoring the numerous people in this thread who've attributed the worse record to POORER COACHING.

 

Apparently the anger towards the organization is preventing people from even trying to have an objective conversation.

 

The "let's go to the Stadium Wall and vent our anger" people sadly overpopulating this board.

 

So Gailey is solely responsible? I don't buy it. I'm not venting at all. Objectively, and responding to the thread's title, I do not think the Bills are better overall than they were 3 years ago. And I'd love to see otherwise. I'm just can't drink the Koolaid.

 

Disagree, on the grounds we are talking about talent. Lynch has the same talent as he has ever had.

Excellent point.

Edited December 15, 2012 by JPS

[JohnC]

 

 

Don't confuse WORSE record with WORSE talent.

 

The numerous poorer record/poorer talent people who are incapable of actually judging talent are totally ignoring the numerous people in this thread who've attributed the worse record to POORER COACHING.

 

Apparently the anger towards the organization is preventing people from even trying to have an objective conversation.

 

The "let's go to the Stadium Wall and vent our anger" people sadly overpopulating this board.

 

Let's look at a meaningful way of how to determine whether the Bills are better or worse under the Nix regime. The obvious metric is the record. On that count the team has slid backward, not forward under this regime. Another way to judge how good the Bills really are is how do the Bills perform against good teams. Does Gailey have a meaningful win against a good team in his almost three year stint? I don't believe so. How many games has he won against teams with winning records? Very few.

 

Whether the Bills lose because of the caliber of the coaching or the caliber of the roster really doesn't matter. The responsibility of a GM is not only to upgrade talent but he is supposed to hire coaches that put the acquired players in the best position to succeed. Has that happened here? I don't believe so.

 

When judging a franchise it is futile in qualifying your judgment of a franchise with the phrase If only the coaching was better or if only we had a legitimate franchise qb or if only we didn't have so many injuries or if only the refereeing wasn't so bad or if only we had a weaker schedule (which we normally have) or if only the owner was more engaged or less engaged or if only we didn't play a game in Toronto. Professional sports are a bottom line business i.e. W/L record.

 

There is nothing wrong with being highly critical when it is warranted. When a franchise has been a losing franchise for a generation or more and when it is incapable of competing against good teams in a system designed for parity then the problem has little to do with the critics but everything to do with the systemic dysfunction in the organization.

 

This very unstable organization has had many opportunities to make changes. They never seem to get it right. The problem gets accentuated when a mediocre staffer gets replaced with another mediocre staffer. This cycle of foolishness never seems to end. Why was an undistinguished retread coach such as Gailey hired in the first place? Who was making the decision, Nix? If so, what was his line of reasoning? It makes absolutely no sense.

 

There is nothing wrong with a large segment of the fanbase being exasperated to the point of falling by the wayside. It is a reasonable response to an absurd way of doing busines, even for a very profitable business.

[papazoid]

the bills are better than they were 3 years ago.....

 

the problem is.....so are about 25 other teams....

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

Then it's the coaching. As for "wasting" a #9 pick on Spiller, getting a game-changer is never a waste.

 

PTR

It is so a waste if you refuse to play him.

[NoSaint]

 

 

I misunderstood Ham and revised accordingly. So many posters have said that "the team has more talent". Talent is not something that comes and goes, in my opinion. I don't think Wood is more talented now than he was as a rookie. He has more experience now. He's had more injuries. He's playing at a different position. But, he's not "more talented" than himself. It is by this then that I meant comparing different seasons is perfectly acceptable. If one judged Brett Favre's talent based on his stint with his first NFL team, one would have to say he sucked. It wasn't until he was coached up and put in a system that he could thrive in that he became a Hall-of-Fame player. Similarly for Steve Young. So, having watched Marshawn play this season, I can say the guy is a stud and a very talented football player. He's been pulling the load for his team. If I ignore that data, then I don't really have a very good picture of his innate talent. Hope this explains what I meant more clearly. Sorry to Ham for the misunderstanding.

 

As far as if the team is strictly better, we'll know in 3 weeks; but, so far their record says, "meh".

 

With experience you certainly can gain talent. Talent isn't just the ability to run fast but the polish to run a precise route. That isn't something a coach makes happen in a day, it's cultivated over years. It isn't just a coach making a player want to do it but a player also wanting to do it himself. That can be side tracked by poor coaching, bad schemes, poor health, or even off the field distractions. Maturity often ties closely to the ability to unleash ones raw ability. If someone's not grown up enough to maximize there gifts is the team as talented as their highest potential ceiling, or the life stage they are currently in? I'd argue the latter.

[Sisyphean Bills]

With experience you certainly can gain talent. Talent isn't just the ability to run fast but the polish to run a precise route. That isn't something a coach makes happen in a day, it's cultivated over years. It isn't just a coach making a player want to do it but a player also wanting to do it himself. That can be side tracked by poor coaching, bad schemes, poor health, or even off the field distractions. Maturity often ties closely to the ability to unleash ones raw ability. If someone's not grown up enough to maximize there gifts is the team as talented as their highest potential ceiling, or the life stage they are currently in? I'd argue the latter.

Thanks for clarifying what you think talent means. I think you are talking about skill myself, and they are really not quite the same. But, I do appreciate you clarifying.

[Rob's House]

Sometimes you have to get worse before you get better. The team Buddy inherited wasn't the team that played the year before (that went 6-10). The best player from the year before (Aaron Shobel) retired. The top receiver from that year (TO) was not resigned. Plus, we went in a completely different direction on defense. The offense got better, the defense got worse. Now it's starting to look like both sides are getting up to speed. There was always the question of whether this defense would gel in the first year. We also had a brutal schedule to start the season. I'm always optimistic, but all things considered, my expectations of next season are much higher than they were for this season.

[NoSaint]

 

Thanks for clarifying what you think talent means. I think you are talking about skill myself, and they are really not quite the same. But, I do appreciate you clarifying.

 

Fair enough. Skill vs talent is not a distinction that I think is being made in the conversation but I do believe defining terms is important to any conversation that hopes to be productive.

 

Comparing the two teams, in this case, I think means your definition of skill is what matters.

[Since 1972]

Sometimes you have to get worse before you get better. The team Buddy inherited wasn't the team that played the year before (that went 6-10). The best player from the year before (Aaron Shobel) retired. The top receiver from that year (TO) was not resigned. Plus, we went in a completely different direction on defense. The offense got better, the defense got worse. Now it's starting to look like both sides are getting up to speed. There was always the question of whether this defense would gel in the first year. We also had a brutal schedule to start the season. I'm always optimistic, but all things considered, my expectations of next season are much higher than they were for this season.

 

Always NEXT YEAR...oh well, we'll get em then, or the year after, or eventually at some point in the future,right? This years schedule had "winning season" written all over it. To come away .500 or below is "brutal".

 

Hope next years schedule is not as "brutal"...oh wait