dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 lindell was 24 for 28 this year - 86%. that's the 6th best percentage in the league, and he plays in one of the windiest and rainiest stadiums in the nfl. everyone misses an easy one once in a while, and the one he missed was hardly a pressure kick given that the bills were up at the time. by definition, pressure kicks are the ones at or near the end of games that either put you ahead when you're behind/tied or tie it up when you're 3 points down. he wasn't the one who gave up the 58 yard run or the one who completely missed seeing an oncoming blitzer.
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 lindell was 24 for 28 this year - 86%. that's the 6th best percentage in the league, and he plays in one of the windiest and rainiest stadiums in the nfl. everyone misses an easy one once in a while, and the one he missed was hardly a pressure kick given that the bills were up at the time. by definition, pressure kicks are the ones at or near the end of games that either put you ahead when you're behind/tied or tie it up when you're 3 points down. he wasn't the one who gave up the 58 yard run or the one who completely missed seeing an oncoming blitzer. 192984[/snapback] Uh, no. Statistics rarely tell the whole story and I watched Lindell regularly get outkicked by our opponent's kickers (including both Steeler kickers on Sunday) in the exact same elements. Lindell may not have been the ONLY reason we lost this weekend, but he was certainly ONE of them.
BillsNYC Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I always stick up for Lindell....but he WAS getting outkicked in our own stadium on Sunday.
dave mcbride Posted January 4, 2005 Author Posted January 4, 2005 Uh, no. Statistics rarely tell the whole story and I watched Lindell regularly get outkicked by our opponent's kickers (including both Steeler kickers on Sunday) in the exact same elements. Lindell may not have been the ONLY reason we lost this weekend, but he was certainly ONE of them. 192989[/snapback] when did he miss a pressure kick all season? what was the opponents' average drive start and kickoff return yardage average? in case you're interested, the bills gave up 18.3 yards/return, which was second best in the league. 24 out of 28 means exactly that -- he made 24 out of 28 kicks. 5 teams had a better kicking percentage. Pittsburgh was 10th, by the way.
stevestojan Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I'll use this analogy again. Rian Lindell is to the kicking world what Baby Joe Mesi is to the Boxing world. Both of them had good percentages because neither was ever put into a situation for potential failure. Baby Joe's promoter/manager never let him fight anyone who would really challenge him. Mike Mularky never let Lindell kick past 40+ yards. Why? Perhaps neither leader had faith in their "student" to even let them take a chance against a real challenge. Lindell had a good percentage because all of his kick were at or near "chip shot" level. Mesi never lost because he never fought a contender. But, this past Sunday, Lindell went up against a 13 year old girl in the "ring" and got TKOd in the first round. TWENTY EIGHT YARDS!!!
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 His longest FG of the year was 43 yards.
LabattBlue Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 when did he miss a pressure kick all season? what was the opponents' average drive start and kickoff return yardage average? in case you're interested, the bills gave up 18.3 yards/return, which was second best in the league. 24 out of 28 means exactly that -- he made 24 out of 28 kicks. 5 teams had a better kicking percentage. Pittsburgh was 10th, by the way. 192998[/snapback] The key stat on kickoff returns is average starting field position for your opponent and for some reason, I can never find it.
taterhill Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 when did he miss a pressure kick all season? what was the opponents' average drive start and kickoff return yardage average? in case you're interested, the bills gave up 18.3 yards/return, which was second best in the league. 24 out of 28 means exactly that -- he made 24 out of 28 kicks. 5 teams had a better kicking percentage. Pittsburgh was 10th, by the way. 192998[/snapback] miss 28 yarders during 30 point blowouts, not when our playoff lives are on the line...YOU CANNOT MISS THAT KICK......EVER
Alaska Darin Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 when did he miss a pressure kick all season? what was the opponents' average drive start and kickoff return yardage average? in case you're interested, the bills gave up 18.3 yards/return, which was second best in the league. 24 out of 28 means exactly that -- he made 24 out of 28 kicks. 5 teams had a better kicking percentage. Pittsburgh was 10th, by the way. 192998[/snapback] He only missed one pressure kick this season (coincidentally, it was the only one he attempted) because MM didn't have the confidence in him to even give him a shot at it. His kickoffs this past Sunday were HORRIBLE, as they have been much of his career. The coverage team and excellent tackling (for the most part) masked his ineffectiveness (especially lack of hangtime/distance). You can quote stats all day long. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. The phrase exists for a reason.
maddog Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I generally have been supportive of Lindell, however after looking at the following stats, I think it may be time to move on. These are stats for the first five years of each kickers career (Lindell has five years exp). The kickers were chosen because they generally kick in outdoor stadiums in cold weather and have at least five years experience: Less than 40 yards: Akers 87 of 92 94.6% Stover 78 of 86 90.7% Dawson 63 of 70 90.0% Lindell 71 of 79 89.9% Longwell 86 of 97 88.7% Vinatieri 95 of 108 88.0% Christie 76 of 89 85.4% Edinger 57 of 70 81.4% 40 plus yards Akers 49 of 67 73.1% Edinger 53 of 76 69.7% Longwell 45 of 65 69.2% Christie 33 of 48 68.8% Vinatieri 41 of 61 67.2% Dawson 21 of 33 63.6% Stover 30 of 48 62.5% Lindell 28 of 51 54.9% Akers is phenomenal. Lindell's results outside of 40 yards is quite subpar. It's not that he doesn't have the leg (he's 7 for 14 career from 50+). It's just that he has not been accurate. It should be pointed out though that Lindell's contract is not above average for kickers. He is about in the middle of the pack.
Dan Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 please... if we can't get a better kicker in here next year.. then we're dooooomed.
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 The question is, can you get someone better? You could take a chance on a guy out of college, but unless you get real lucky, he might miss a bunch early one. (Can you say Gary Anderson) Then when he starts missing what often happens is, the team cuts him. We cut that guy Graham a few years back. Now he's doing well.
GG Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 He only missed one pressure kick this season (coincidentally, it was the only one he attempted) because MM didn't have the confidence in him to even give him a shot at it. His kickoffs this past Sunday were HORRIBLE, as they have been much of his career. The coverage team and excellent tackling (for the most part) masked his ineffectiveness (especially lack of hangtime/distance). You can quote stats all day long. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. The phrase exists for a reason. 193009[/snapback] Yeah, what Darin said. When MM didn't send Lindell to even try a 49 yd field goal with the wind in the Jags game, it sealed it for me on the confidence meter.
Live&DieBillsFootball Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Lindell sucks. The coaches don't even like to try FG's over 40 yds. So he makes a lot of short ones. Sorry but the only way that you should miss a 28 yd fg is if the snap or hold are bad or it gets blocked.
Simon Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I hear you dave, and I think the cut 'em crew might be missing the boat on this one. I'm not saying Lindell is a great kicker, cuz he's not. But I do think he may be the right kicker for the Bills. Everybody is always complaining about how he's so bad that Mularkey won't even let him try from outside 45yrds. But the question I have is exactly how many attempts outside 45yrds do you want to register for a guy kicking in the NorthEast during winter in an open-ended stadium that is a few miles from an enormous lake? The Bills dont need a guy like Christie who can hit the occasional 50+yrdr but then is hitting at only like 70% from everywhere else. Why? Because they're simply not going to to try hardly any long FG's at the Ralph in Oct/Nov/Dec. The Bills need a guy like Lindell who maybe isn't carrying a huge leg(which would be sacrificed to the Hawk by midseason anyways) but who is usually money on his attempts inside 45, which are going to the constitute the vast vast majority of attempts for any guy who kicks in Orchard Park. Cya P.S. to GG: I do see your point re: the impact it had on the Jax game, but I still maintain that was a strategical error by a rookie coach in his 1stgame as opposed to a good reason to distrust Lindell.
Brandon Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 He only missed one pressure kick this season (coincidentally, it was the only one he attempted) because MM didn't have the confidence in him to even give him a shot at it. His kickoffs this past Sunday were HORRIBLE, as they have been much of his career. The coverage team and excellent tackling (for the most part) masked his ineffectiveness (especially lack of hangtime/distance). You can quote stats all day long. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. The phrase exists for a reason. 193009[/snapback] Exactly. Even the Bills coaching staff shows an apparent lack of confidence in Lindell. This season, they quite often seemed very apprehensive about allowing him to attempt anything over 40 yards and many times he wasn't given a chance. That speaks volumes, as does the fact that his longest FG of the season was a paltry 43 yards. The stats are meaningless, as practically all of his attempts were from short-to-medium range.
GG Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 I hear you dave, and I think the cut 'em crew might be missing the boat on this one.I'm not saying Lindell is a great kicker, cuz he's not. But I do think he may be the right kicker for the Bills. Everybody is always complaining about how he's so bad that Mularkey won't even let him try from outside 45yrds. But the question I have is exactly how many attempts outside 45yrds do you want to register for a guy kicking in the NorthEast during winter in an open-ended stadium that is a few miles from an enormous lake? The Bills dont need a guy like Christie who can hit the occasional 50+yrdr but then is hitting at only like 70% from everywhere else. Why? Because they're simply not going to to try hardly any long FG's at the Ralph in Oct/Nov/Dec. The Bills need a guy like Lindell who maybe isn't carrying a huge leg(which would be sacrificed to the Hawk by midseason anyways) but who is usually money on his attempts inside 45, which are going to the constitute the vast vast majority of attempts for any guy who kicks in Orchard Park. Cya P.S. to GG: I do see your point re: the impact it had on the Jax game, but I still maintain that was a strategical error by a rookie coach in his 1stgame as opposed to a good reason to distrust Lindell. 193236[/snapback] To me, the money kickers are the guys who are 66-2/3%+ beyond the 40. You'd be hard pressed to find guys, bad wind or not, who couldn't be consistent inside the 40. Of course the bad winds at Ralph are another wrinkle, and history has shown to us that if you get a guy in house that has been successful in that weather, you don't drive him out of town until he can't walk anymore. I'll gladly take Christie back, because his range also plays into the coaching decisions once a team reaches the 35 yard line. A coach may be more aggressive at that point knowing he's in FG range, as opposed to the guy who knows he needs another 7 yards of comfort for his kicker.
Where the Buffalo Roam Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 Did we even bring another kicker into camp this past year? I don't recall us making an attempt to upgrade, and Lindell was bad last year as well.
rolly Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 Why don't we look into picking up Christie again for next season. He had a solid season with the giants and no one knows the buffalo winds better then him. As far as kickoffs go, I know he was a problem. Maybe give moorman a try and work with him all offseason?
jester43 Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 i hate to harsh on lindell, but the guy obviously does not have the leg of a premier kicker. his kickoffs are too damn short, and though his field goal accuracy was decent, the fact that mularkey didn't give him long attemps was telling. can you imagine marv not giving christie 50 yard attempts? case closed. having said that, it is idiotic to cut him till you find someone better...i am trusting donohoe to find that guy for us.
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