jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 Yesterday I came up with an opinion that the reason why CJ gets taken out so much is his pass protection limitations. Many people disagreed with me, so I took 4 plays from the 1st quarter of the Rams game with CJ and Fred facing similar blitz pickup assignments. I think it is clear that there is a distinct difference in the pass protection abilities of the 2 RB's. Again this is only 4 plays, again I do not know the exact pass protection schemes... but it is something that I think we should take into consideration when trying to figure out why CJ isn't in the game more. We all know he isn't tired. I will be curious to see how the Bills use Spiller for the final 3 games, will they use him in pass protection or will we see more Choice in the backfield. My entire breakdown is linked below. http://yardsperpass.com/?p=207 Comments / Thoughts welcomed -Jon
jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 Here's my post on CJ and Fred and their pass blocking http://yardsperpass.com/?p=207
zow2 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I don't know why anyone would disagree with you? Spiller said after the game himself that he felt he took a step back in pass protection on Sunday. Said he needs to improve. I don't doubt for a second that Gailey & Co. lost trust in his ability to pass protect especially when the newbies on the O-line were getting blown up. Therefore Fred played the majority of snaps. The Rams have a pretty nasty defense...as does Seattle this week.
K-9 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Great stuff. And I agree with our assessment entirely. CJ is slow to recognize where the pressure is coming from and can't block it in time. He also gets overpowered because his technique is somewhat lacking. Poor leverage. I wasn't able to see any of the game but just from the looks of these stills, Fisher seemed to make it a point to pressure the inexperienced left side of our OL. Was that the case much of the game? And you can bet Carroll and that great Seahawk front seven will be doing more of the same. GO BILLS!!!
reddogblitz Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Not sure if it's related but I did hear Coach Gailey say after the game that when CJ is in teams are stacking 9 in the box to stop him. He and Fred both did get stuffed quite a bit in the Lambs game. They both had a couple of nice runs and a bunch of 1 yard or less runs. If this is the case though, shouldn't a cracker jack OC such as Coach Gailey is purported to be be able to do something to counteract this? Send everyone left on a fake run to Spiller and have Fitz bootleg out the other way along with a TE 5 yards down-field and hit him with a pass in the open for a good RAC. Or put Fred and CJ both back there. Seems the possibility would be endless. Unfortunately Coach Gailey sees this and deduces, oh well, we can't run. Better pass.
reddogblitz Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 (edited) Excellent break down. Thaniks. Gosh I wish we had a DC that would blitz and change things up like this. Maybe we should keep Corey McIntryre in there with CJ to do the pass blocking and CJ to do the running? Edited December 11, 2012 by reddogblitz
jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 Excellent break down. Thaniks. Gosh I wish we had a DC that would blitz and change things up like this. Maybe we should keep Corey McIntryre in there with CJ to do the pass blocking and CJ to do the running? Me too.... even though I thought Wanny's game plan was pretty good on Sunday. I saw a slot DB blitz for what seems like the 1st time all year
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I have to believe it's a coaching issue, and the one size fits all approach our backs seems to take when picking up blitzers. Freddy is powerfully built through his legs and core, and has a good degree of success taking on blockers high simply by getting uner their pad level. CJ, on the other hand, is much leaner and would ikely benefit from a different approach, like the cut block. Spiller would likely benefit from watching film of David Megget's blitz pick-up technique.
jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 Great stuff. And I agree with our assessment entirely. CJ is slow to recognize where the pressure is coming from and can't block it in time. He also gets overpowered because his technique is somewhat lacking. Poor leverage. I wasn't able to see any of the game but just from the looks of these stills, Fisher seemed to make it a point to pressure the inexperienced left side of our OL. Was that the case much of the game? And you can bet Carroll and that great Seahawk front seven will be doing more of the same. GO BILLS!!! Yeah I think we will see a lot of blitzing from the seahawks.... not to mention their fast DE's just sprinting around the edge
NoSaint Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 makes sense. also probably why he was getting more reps early and was MIA late. already worried about him and he got blown up a few times early.
jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 CJ, on the other hand, is much leaner and would ikely benefit from a different approach, like the cut block. Spiller would likely benefit from watching film of David Megget's blitz pick-up technique. I agree with the cutting aspect of it. I was watching Woodhead last night and I thought he did an excellent job picking guys up (he cut a couple guys) and he's tiny
cantankerous Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I don't know why anyone would disagree with you? Spiller said after the game himself that he felt he took a step back in pass protection on Sunday. Said he needs to improve. I don't doubt for a second that Gailey & Co. lost trust in his ability to pass protect especially when the newbies on the O-line were getting blown up. Therefore Fred played the majority of snaps. The Rams have a pretty nasty defense...as does Seattle this week. Then after looking at the game film Spiller said something along the lines of "I didn't do as bad as I thought I did"
jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 Then after looking at the game film Spiller said something along the lines of "I didn't do as bad as I thought I did" Heard that as well... I don't think it is for a lack of effort. It's just that some people are better at some thing than others. I think Freddie is fantastic at picking up the blitz. But he isn't even close to CJ in game-breaking ability. Gotta take the good and bad
dogman Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Whether or not it is smart or not to keep him on the bench. CJ Spiller is really bad in pass protection. Like seriously bad. Teams are starting to blitz more when CJ is in there in obvious passing situations, so not only does this prevent him from running a pattern b/c he has to stay in and block, but it also gets a blitzer matched up on a sub-par blocker. Teams do this a lot against the Saints as well... but they have Brees who can make plays better than Fitz can. It was a bigger problem than usual on Sunday b/c of all backups on the OL going against a good Rams DL. If you get a chance watch what happens when CJ has to stay in and block... it's not pretty. CJ definitely needs the ball more... but this is my reasoning on why he is out of the game so much. -Jon Very True-Nice observation. A smarter coach would solve that by having a fullback on the field or a double-tight-end alignment.
Bronc24 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Great breakdown, though I may argue that the line may have erred in the play at 1:41. Regardless, he is poor at pass pro, but why the hell are we passing on first and 10 and 3rd and 3?
dpberr Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 You could get some pass protection and keep CJ on the field if the Bills went into the garage and dusted off the FB. And of course, we could always throw the ball less.
eball Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Not trying to pile on the OP, but I agree with those who call B.S. on the notion Spiller isn't in the game b/c of his pass blocking. That doesn't explain the lack of CARRIES, nor does it explain the empty backfield sets. Gailey has outsmarted himself with respect to Spiller, and for the life of me I can't figure out why.
simpleman Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 Very True-Nice observation. A smarter coach would solve that by having a fullback on the field or a double-tight-end alignment. Exactly, that's why Gailey gets the big bucks and I watch in the stands or on TV. Except Gailey is getting the bucks and not earning them by being a coach capable of adjusting his alignments with the right personnel on the field to solve their individual weaknesses.
RyanC883 Posted December 11, 2012 Posted December 11, 2012 I don't think he's that bad in pass protection at all. Is Fred better? Sure. But CJ isn't much worse than the average NFL RB. I agree. I watched him a few times and he appears to be average for an NFL back. This is just another Gailey excuse for his man-love of Fitz.
jonramz Posted December 11, 2012 Author Posted December 11, 2012 Great breakdown, though I may argue that the line may have erred in the play at 1:41. Regardless, he is poor at pass pro, but why the hell are we passing on first and 10 and 3rd and 3? Yeah there was something wrong... not sure who messed up, but CJ should have at least hit someone. I think CJ is an amazing back... and this is the only logical thing I can think of about why he isn't on the field more
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