OT - 120 Russian Schoolkids taken hostage

[CoachChuckDickerson]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I think this FACT plays a major role...

 

The Muslim religion does advocate murder if it is done to further the "will of God."

 

Further, Muslim extremists believe that sacrificing oneself for the "will of God" gains you a privelaged place in heaven, as a hero.

Now a personal opinion:  I believe that this is another example of the dangers of religious (read: "non-rational") thinking with regards to morality.

14437[/snapback]

 

You don't sound insensitive you sound plain dumb. This is NOT a religious war fella. Do you know anything about Russia? I'm going to have to say no based of this observation.

[VABills]

You don't sound insensitive you sound plain dumb. This is NOT a religious war fella. Do you know anything about Russia? I'm going to have to say no based of this observation.

15553[/snapback]

 

You had better go check your facts. Putin and Russia have been dealing with this and there are some strong ties between these Chenan rebles (who are muslim) and al Quada.

 

This absolutely is an al Qaeda / muslim thing. For you to imply it isn't is plain stupidity.

 

As far as going after children, this to me is the worst someone can do. I hope these folks are killed, strung up and everyone who supported them found and strung up as well.

[appooOnU]

who gives a stevestojan why its happening. they've held 350 CHILDREN hostage.

[VABills]

who gives a stevestojan why its happening. they've held 350 CHILDREN hostage.

15586[/snapback]

Because when this is over and hopefully the children are saved, then you go after the root of the problem with all the furry of a !@#$ing hurricane in Florida. Quit with the sensitive war stevestojan. Go make these folks and the ones who support this terrorism pay with ther lives. They are scum and don't deserve to breath.

[aussiew]

Trying to blame this on Muslims or Iraq is the funniest thing I have heard all week. I suggest you pick up a book and educate yourself as to why this is happening.

 

Well said, this isn't a Muslim issue.

[Cugalabanza]

You don't sound insensitive you sound plain dumb. This is NOT a religious war fella. Do you know anything about Russia? I'm going to have to say no based of this observation.

15553[/snapback]

I was replying to a general question about Muslims. I don't understand why you are attacking me here and calling me dumb. It seems way out of proportion. I don't know what your problem is.

[Jukester]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I think this FACT plays a major role...

 

The Muslim religion does advocate murder if it is done to further the "will of God."

 

14437[/snapback]

 

I'd love for you to show us the exact quote in the Quran. The religion does not advocate murder you dork. It's the misguided idiots (read fundamentalists) that preach and carry out this crap. And of course people like you who post ignorant statements as above which others read and take as the truth only adding to the ignorance.

[_BiB_]

Chechan timeline

 

The original root causes of the conflict are political, but being propogated by fundamental islamic "Believers". AQ and these Chechan paramilitary whatevers have been in bed for years. This IS Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism. The goal might be an "independant" Chechnya, but that would have a heavy fundamental/radical islamic base to it. What you will have is another refuge, another Afghanistan-which it pretty well is already. If you don't think AQ is alive and well and hiding in Chechnya, sorry, they are.

[Britbillsfan]

Because when this is over and hopefully the children are saved, then you go after the root of the problem with all the furry of a !@#$ing hurricane in Florida.  Quit with the sensitive war stevestojan.  Go make these folks and the ones who support this terrorism pay with ther lives.  They are scum and don't deserve to breath.

15591[/snapback]

Of course how do you tell who actually supports the insurgents amongst the civilian population, because they sure as hell will not tell you. And the Russians have never gone with the sensitive war approach.

 

Half the reason why the fundamentalists can so easily recruit in Chechnya is that the Russian military have gone into Chechnya with 'all the fury of a hurricane'. In parts of Chechnya you can not find an male between about 15 and 60 years old because the Russians have 'arrested' them indiscriminately whether they supported the insurgents or not (and of course they are never seen or heard from again). Of course anybody in the area not arrested is not going to hang about waiting for death and will seek help from whoever they can (ie: insurgents) and are prime for indoctrination. And when reporters with the gumption to see for themselves have gone into Chechnya they have ended up dead also (again at the hands of the Russians as often as not). Of course with what remains of the free press in Russia being compromised by Putin's government the news coming out of Chechnya is becoming harder to get outside of official channels. A hearts and minds approach would eventually achieve results, unlike the already tried method you propose.

 

Chechens themselves tend to loathe both the Russians and the insurgents and have been pretty much living in hell for the last decade or so.

 

Of course killing all the scumbags in the school and the actual insurgents is a good thing. It is just the Russians have always gone for the sledgehammer to crack a nut approach that is half the problem.

[_BiB_]

Russia-Chechnya for Dummies

 

Maybe easier to palate. Read especially the section on Governments involved.

[Jukester]

Half the reason why the fundamentalists can so easily recruit in Chechnya is that the Russian military have gone into Chechnya with 'all the fury of a hurricane'. In parts of Chechnya you can not find an male between about 15 and 60 years old because the Russians have 'arrested' them indiscriminately whether they supported the insurgents or not (and of course they are never seen or heard from again). Of course anybody in the area not arrested is not going to hang about waiting for death and will seek help from whoever they can (ie: insurgents) and are prime for indoctrination. And when reporters with the gumption to see for themselves have gone into Chechnya they have ended up dead also (again at the hands of the Russians as often as not). Of course with what remains of the free press in Russia being compromised by Putin's government the news coming out of Chechnya is becoming harder to get outside of official channels.

15640[/snapback]

 

Exactly. Britbillsfan is right on. Do the words genocide and human rights violations by the Russian government ring a bell? Of course it was a forgotten cause after 9/11. Bottom line is launching wars and condemning terror won't work without also seeking fair political and diplomatic solutions. The cycle will continue until we have responsible world leaders.

 

See also this Washington Times article : Chechnya's Agony

[Alaska Darin]

Exactly.  Britbillsfan is right on.  Do the words genocide and human rights violations by the Russian government ring a bell?  Of course it was a forgotten cause after 9/11.  Bottom line is launching wars and condemning terror won't work without also seeking fair political and diplomatic solutions.  The cycle will continue until we have responsible world leaders. 

 

See also this Washington Times article : Chechnya's Agony

15689[/snapback]

Yeah, so take a school full of children hostage instead of a government building. Way to prove their point. Time to send these !@#$s to meet their 72 virgins.

[VABills]

Yeah, so take a school full of children hostage instead of a government building.  Way to prove their point.  Time to send these !@#$s to meet their 72 virgins.

15697[/snapback]

Hey Darin, but what happens in this case? Seems most of these terrorists are women. What do they get?

[appooOnU]

I believe that Chechnya has good reason to fight for their freedom. After all, it was taken from them. And if they are willing to fight for it, I hope they gain it.

 

But no one has a right to do this kind of thing. Never. under any situation

[CoachChuckDickerson]

Because when this is over and hopefully the children are saved, then you go after the root of the problem with all the furry of a !@#$ing hurricane in Florida.  Quit with the sensitive war stevestojan.  Go make these folks and the ones who support this terrorism pay with ther lives.  They are scum and don't deserve to breath.

15591[/snapback]

 

 

And in 1994 when Russia invaded Chechnya and killed 70,000 chechen civilians? These are not Muslim extremists who hate the "western culture". This battle has been going on for over a hundred years.

[Jukester]

Yeah, so take a school full of children hostage instead of a government building.  Way to prove their point.  Time to send these !@#$s to meet their 72 virgins.

15697[/snapback]

 

Is that what I said?! Where did I say killing innocent people is justified. In fact my post denounced killing. Read and understand my post before putting words in my mouth. Maybe it's time for you to go back to reading school.

[VABills]

And in 1994 when Russia invaded Chechnya and killed 70,000 chechen civilians? These are not Muslim extremists who hate the "western culture". This battle has been going on for over a hundred years.

15752[/snapback]

Of course lets ignore the facts again, when the radicals attacked even after a peace treaty was in place in the late 90's. The war was over, yet the war continued.

[jad1]

Obviously these terrorists are doing this because they hate Russian freedom.

 

This is how the weak fights the strong, it's ugly, but so is war.

[Britbillsfan]

Yeah, so take a school full of children hostage instead of a government building.  Way to prove their point.  Time to send these !@#$s to meet their 72 virgins.

15697[/snapback]

Like I said, I have no problem with the scum responsible being taken out, what these evil SoB's are doing and have done is beyond all acceptable standards.

 

However the Russians have made a rod for their own backs in the way they have dealt with the Chechens generally. The greatest recruiting aide for these piles of excrement is not Islam, or rather their particularly vile version of it, but the conduct of the Russians themselves.

 

About the only thing we can do in this sort of situation is hope that no more innocents will get hurt, even if that seems unlikely.

[CoachChuckDickerson]

Of course lets ignore the facts again, when the radicals attacked even after a peace treaty was in place in the late 90's.  The war was over, yet the war continued.

15767[/snapback]

 

I guess in 2001 the UN didn't have all the facts either.

 

April 2001, “the U.N. Commission on Human Rights adopted a resolution on Chechnya that condemned serious human rights violations by Russia's forces, and raised concern about forced disappearances, torture, and summary executions. Sponsored by the E.U., and with strong U.S. backing, the resolution called for U.N. special rapporteurs to investigate these abuses in the war-torn republic and for credible criminal investigations by domestic agencies into all human rights and humanitarian law violations. Russia rejected a similar resolution adopted by the commission last year, and refused to comply with its requirements. It has vowed to do the same this year.”

 

In May 2001, they also reported that Russian authorities covered up evidence of extra-judicial executions.