NoSaint Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 You mean his last appearance where Washington was losing by 2 TD's when he entered the game? The game where he tossed a 75 yard TD to get them within one, and this his only INT's were thrown with under 2 minutes to go in the game when he was slinging balls downfield hoping for a miracle? That game? You're right. Brady isn't worth a 1st either. He went in the 6th round afterall. Im not saying im always right but if youre going to discredit me at least make a valid point. Brady, with a track record of more than a dozen throws, would likely get a lot more. Similar to your example of kolb who had a couple hundred regular season passes. Cousins may build that value but his evaluation is still largely the same one that got him picked in the 4th He's one of those guys who are better in the NFL than in college. Cousins already has that hype. Turn on the TV... I'm saying that hype is bigger on fox than in GM offices. You know, where ratings trump practical analysis.
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 Brady, with a track record of more than a dozen throws, would likely get a lot more. Similar to your example of kolb who had a couple hundred regular season passes. Cousins may build that value but his evaluation is still largely the same one that got him picked in the 4th According to whom? NFL Sources disagree with you. So who are you talking to that convinces you otherwise? Is it the magical fairy in your ear?
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) According to whom? NFL Sources disagree with you. So who are you talking to that convinces you otherwise? Is it the magical fairy in your ear? Who is the nfl source talking to you? Is it that guy named anonymous? He says a lot of things. Out of pride alone most GMs don't want to send a first rounder for a guy they passed on in the 3rd (and some the 4th) less than a year before. Especially based on a dozen throws, several of which you are discounting as garbage time. Edited December 9, 2012 by NoSaint
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Who is the nfl source talking to you? Is it that guy named anonymous? He says a lot of things. No its the national media. You know, the guys with access to NFL coaches, GM's etc? Those guys. Edited December 9, 2012 by LiterateStylish
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) No its the national media. You know, the guys with access to NFL coaches, GM's etc? Those guys. Ah, the same ones that you cite as saying he was a second rounder last year. Or ones that said we'd take clausen at 9? The ones that know qb controversy and possible trades create ratings. Edited December 9, 2012 by NoSaint
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Ah, the same ones that you cite as saying he was a second rounder last year. Or ones that said we'd take clausen at 9? The ones that know qb controversy and possible trades create ratings. Ok man. You're right. He's worth a 4th rounder right now. It's all a big conspiracy. Anyhoo... Edited December 9, 2012 by LiterateStylish
Best Player Available Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Ok man. You're right. He's worth a 4th rounder right now. It's all a big conspiracy. Anyhoo... Thanks for correcting. He is worth a 4th no doubt. Maybe a 3rd even.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 And i'm not kidding. I know many of you are excited about drafting a franchise QB and I'm not the guy who jumps on any bandwagon player who played well for a week. In fact, I made a very similar post about Cousins on another message board in August after seeing Cousins play a few games. But this guy has it. He will be a good NFL QB. Send a 1st or 2nd round pick to Washington, let Cousins start the last 3 games in Buffalo, and then roll him into next year as your franchise QB. Ideally, I wouldn't want to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick for a QB that we could have drafted in the 3rd round either. But the fact of the matter is that some team is going to unload their pockets for Cousins either this off-season or next. I'd rather it be us. Facing one of the best defenses in the NFL, Cousins stepped into the game down by a TD and without taking a single snap in weeks. His first pass hit his target with pinpoint accuracy for 15 yards. His second pass nailed a covered Garcon for an 11 yard Touchdown. The very next play he completes the two point conversion. When Griffin went down against the Bears, Cousins stepped in and tossed a beautiful 75 yard TD to Santana Moss. Once again, cold off the bench, without taking a snap in weeks. In the pre-season, he torched Chicago for 270 yards and 3 TD's. This is not a strong QB draft. There are a bunch of boom or bust QB's - we can't take that risk. It's been over a decade. Let the Jacksonville's and Chiefs of the world draft a QB every couple of years crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. A film junkie who played in a Pro offense in college and rarely takes a sack? A proven winner from a power conference? Yes please. Get him on the next plane. Edited: Forgot about trade deadline. Thanks Numark. Cousins = Frank Reich. No thanks. No more back up QBs. Bills are stacked at back up QB. Thig, Tjax, Smith and Fitz. Draft a guy who has a shot at carrying the team on his back.
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 Cousins = Frank Reich. No thanks. No more back up QBs. Bills are stacked at back up QB. Thig, Tjax, Smith and Fitz. Draft a guy who has a shot at carrying the team on his back. Cousins can absolutely carry a team on his back. And he will. I just hope it's us.
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Ok man. You're right. He's worth a 4th rounder right now. It's all a big conspiracy. Anyhoo... My argument is today he's worth more to the redskins than anyone else will offer, and because of that will be a redskin next year. Do you really think a GM is going to trade a top 10-15 pick for a guy they passed on 3-4 times less than a year ago based on a dozen passes? Talk about very publicly putting attention on your own failings based on a very small sample size. If they aren't getting a 2 plus (ie first or a second and something) they are better off keeping him unless their own coaches don't like him. Because of the reasons above I don't see a team, especially one picking early, putting a first on him In this case, his value is much more complex than "he was graded as a second and went up" and that will keep him in DC unless they don't like him, he REALLY pushes to get out, or he gets a lot more snaps in the coming weeks.
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) My argument is today he's worth more to the redskins than anyone else will offer, and because of that will be a redskin next year. Do you really think a GM is going to trade a top 10-15 pick for a guy they passed on 3-4 times less than a year ago based on a dozen passes? Talk about very publicly putting attention on your own failings based on a very small sample size. If they aren't getting a 2 plus (ie first or a second and something) they are better off keeping him unless their own coaches don't like him. Because of the reasons above I don't see a team, especially one picking early, putting a first on him In this case, his value is much more complex than "he was graded as a second and went up" and that will keep him in DC unless they don't like him, he REALLY pushes to get out, or he gets a lot more snaps in the coming weeks. Is that really what we've come down to? Not wiling to pull the trigger because you would be admitting you're wrong? How sad. I think you WAY over-value his value as a "safety net". RGIII has never been known to be injury prone. He gets knocked out for a few plays, but not whole games. Cousins playing 20 snaps a year is not very valuable. What youre missing is that those 12 passes in the NFL is worth about 100 passes in college. Youre seeing him pass against NFL players. Not college guys. Youre seeing him pass against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Thats worth a lot. To answer your question, YES I do believe a GM will give up a 1st or 2nd rounder if they think he is a Franchise QB. Edited December 9, 2012 by LiterateStylish
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Is that really what we've come down to? Not wiling to pull the trigger because you would be admitting you're wrong? How sad. I think you WAY over-value his value as a "safety net". RGIII has never been known to be injury prone. He gets knocked out for a few plays, but not whole games. Cousins playing 20 snaps a year is not very valuable. What youre missing is that those 12 passes in the NFL is worth about 100 passes in college. Youre seeing him pass against NFL players. Not college guys. Youre seeing him pass against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Thats worth a lot. To answer your question, YES I do believe a GM will give up a 1st or 2nd rounder if they think he is a Franchise QB. You argued half the passes don't matter (remember, the picks don't count). And yes, I do think it comes to that - in the real world with the politics of keeping a GM job in the NFL I think most are worried about appearances, not just talent. I also think they will lean on their 4 year evaluation, combine, personal workouts, interviews of him over the dozen passes... Or is it like 6 now? Pass on him in the 4th, (or 3rd) trade a top 10 pick for him months later, and best case you fixed your mess up at a high cost, worst case you dumped a top ten on a guy that ends up playing like you originally rated him. That's why kolb, Schaub, etc.... Aren't traded year one. Both had a few hundred passes and were a few years removed. Last up, RG3 hasn't finished 2 out of his first 13 games. You better believe that GM knows he needs a solid backup. He's had a nice little concussion and now has a knee injury (in the same knee he once tore his ACL in). Edited December 9, 2012 by NoSaint
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 You argued half the passes don't matter (remember, the picks don't count). Yes, hail mary's generally don't count against a QB.
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 who the !@#$ is Kirk Cousins? You must not watch college football.
Best Player Available Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 who the !@#$ is Kirk Cousins? He's a back up for the redskins. Backups are popular in Buffalo they have 3 of them.
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Author Posted December 9, 2012 He's a back up for the redskins. Backups are popular in Buffalo they have 3 of them. Brady was a backup in NE. Kurt Warner was a backup in St Louis. Brett Favre was a backup in Atlanta. Matt Schaub was a backup in Atlanta. Should I go on?
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) Yes, hail mary's generally don't count against a QB. He got picked on two Hail Marys? Truly, I saw only part of that game as it was my commercial break one that day but I was curious to see him. Was flipping back and forth. So we celebrate the 75 yarder that the D sucked on and both picks were Hail Marys? He's looked decent, he will likely get them value back down the line - not arguing that. Just ultra rare that a midround pick is traded for a high pick after one year. Especially one that hasn't played much. I can think of no examples off hand. It may not be impossible, but if I'm betting, I rarely pick the one that starts with "for the first time in memory" Have some history to point to besides post game drooling over him for a 2-2 performance for 26 yards? Edited December 9, 2012 by NoSaint
notwoz Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 You must not watch college football. no I don't.
Rob's House Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Fitz didn't lose the game, Skins aren't trading Cousins w/ RG3 hurt, & for what it would cost to get him we could draft a better prospect.
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