CardinalScotts Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) What does "Elite" mean ? Can carry a club or is it winning big games ? Brady and P. Manning to me are a rung above others Rodgers, Luck, Eli Manning are the next level I know Luck is a small sample but he is unreal, then it drops another rung Brees, Rothlisberger - you have to look at the whole picture. Big Ben is awesome in the clutch but that's provided the defense has kept the game close. Example over the last three years with Ben at QB Pittsburgh has given up more than 21 points 11 times Big Bens record 2-9 thats not carrying a team. Holding a team to 9 while the offense score 16 is how Pitt wins. from here its a pool of about 25 guys who don't seperate themselves by much, choke in the clutch, cant carry the team, or are on a great team and along for the ride but prevent them from reaching the super bowl. Edited December 8, 2012 by CardinalScotts
yungmack Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 To me, "Elite" is a very special category. It's not "Mostly really good." And it's certainly not "Comes Through Big Time...Sometimes." Elite QBs can be counted on to perform at a high level week in and week out, to carry a team that's not having its best day, to be reliable when the game is on the line, just to point out a few of the characteristics they have to have. They do not need to have "big arms" necessarily, nor do they have to be fleet of foot. They might be "gunslingers" but that's not a universal characteristic either. With that in mind, the only current NFL QBs I think are elite are Brady, Rodgers and maybe the aging Peyton Manning. Eli, Brees, Roethlisberger are in the next level down, the "Very Good" category, as they are somewhat erratic in their performances week to week but definitely high quality. Flacco, Ryan, Cutler, Rivers, Stafford, Bradford are in the "Okay, But Overrated" category. With the exception of two or three QBs, the rest -- Fitz included -- are in the "Good Enough, But Not Great" category. As to the young guys, I believe Andrew Luck will soon be in the "Elite" group, and RGIII might join him if he can withstand the physical beatings for a couple of more years. As to the rest of the youngsters, from Dalton to Wilson, I think most of them will wind up in the Good Enough" category. I don't believe any of them are truly "Elite."
KD in CA Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 IMO most everyone's short list would include: Brady Brees PManning Next with the greatest support (but not on all lists): EManning Rodgers Roethlisberger I don't see enough difference to break these guys into two groups. They've all carried their teams to championships.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 IMO most everyone's short list would include: Brady Brees PManning Next with the greatest support (but not on all lists): EManning Rodgers Roethlisberger I don't think any other vets make it, and rookies (RG3, Luck, etc) too early to include. Be interested what others think. Elite: 1st Tier Brady P. Manning E. Manning Brees Rodgers Rothlisberger Tier 2: Rivers Flacco Ryan Newton Tier 3: Ponder Bradford Fitzpatrick Gabbert Weeden Not enough information to classify into any tier as of today: Luck RG3 Wilson
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 8, 2012 Posted December 8, 2012 IMO most everyone's short list would include: Brady Brees PManning Next with the greatest support (but not on all lists): EManning Rodgers Roethlisberger I don't think any other vets make it, and rookies (RG3, Luck, etc) too early to include. Be interested what others think. Good post. I think Rodgers deserves to be in the first group. Knocking on the door are Matt Ryan and Schaub IMO. I think a lot of people recognize Ryan as bordering on elite. We wait on some playoff success to call him so. In terms of what Schaub has achieved and his metrics, he's been consistently top-10 QB. What he's missing is a playoff track record. If he hadn't been injured last year so people could finally see what he looks like playing for a team with a D, and if announcers recognized there is more than one football team in Texas, he'd get more love. Rivers - showed a lot of promise at one time. Not sure what's up with him. Freeman - I'd like to see what he looked like with a good team around him. I agree, Wilson, Dalton, Luck, and RGIII show promise but just like Newton and Stafford we want to see more than 1 year of quality play to start using the "E" word. Elite: 1st Tier Brady P. Manning E. Manning Brees Rodgers Rothlisberger Tier 2: Rivers Flacco Ryan Newton Tier 3: Ponder Bradford Fitzpatrick Gabbert Weeden Not enough information to classify into any tier as of today: Luck RG3 Wilson So...where do you put Schaub, Romo, Freeman, Palmer, and Dalton?
Rico Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Three ELITE QBs in the league right now: Brady - 3 rings Big Ben - 2 rings Eli Gump - 2 rings
Alphadawg7 Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Three ELITE QBs in the league right now: Brady - 3 rings Big Ben - 2 rings Eli Gump - 2 rings I see your criteria, and hard to argue with that...but how can you not list Rodgers, Manning or Brees? They each have one and have been prolific passers their whole careers. Rodgers is probably the best QB in the league right now, and Manning is literally the top ranked QB in the league right now and Brees just broke a record this season that many doubted could ever be broken for consecutive games with a TD.
Rico Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Playoff performance is lacking compared to the 3 ELITE QBs. Brady - 3 rings Playoff Record as Starting QB: 16-6 Big Ben - 2 rings Playoff Record as Starting QB: 10-4 Eli Gump - 2 rings Playoff Record as Starting QB: 10-3 Drew Brees - 1 ring Playoff Record as Starting QB: 5-4 Aaron Rodgers - 1 ring Playoff Record as Starting QB: 4-3 Peyton Gump - 1 ring Playoff Record as Starting QB: 9-10
boyst Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Who wins the next ring Big Ben or F'n B*tch Brady? So...where do you put Schaub, Romo, Freeman, Palmer, and Dalton? Schaub is not there yet, two more years like this and he'll be mentioned. Freeman, has to perform a little bit better to get his name mentioned with the 3 other top QB's in the NFC...Eli, Brees, Rodgers. He is not even the best QB in his division, Ryan is better. Romo needs out of Dallas, and I would like to see him go to Phili, especially under Reid. Reid would tap him out after a few seasons, but would get every ounce of ability to work out of him. Dalton is too young, give him 3 more years, maybe 4. He cannot keep up with his own talent at this rate, but hopefully he will be good - still see him turning more in to a Chad Pennington then a Peyton Manning. Palmer was in a high octane offense in Cinci, I did not even understand why he got so much more attention then Kitna at the time, who was playing well. Palmer is another example of a USC QB.
CardinalScotts Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) I don't see enough difference to break these guys into two groups. They've all carried their teams to championships. a qb rating of 43.3 and 119 yds in the "big game" would not qualify as carried...was carried - yes again too much credit and too much blame Edited December 9, 2012 by CardinalScotts
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 So...where do you put Schaub, Romo, Freeman, Palmer, and Dalton? Schaub and Stafford 2nd tier. Romo, Freeman, Palmer and Dalton 3rd tier.
ny33 Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 a qb rating of 43.3 and 119 yds in the "big game" would not qualify as carried...was carried - yes again too much credit and too much blame Are you talking about Staubach?
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Three ELITE QBs in the league right now: Brady - 3 rings Big Ben - 2 rings Eli Gump - 2 rings Or you can look at it as... Rings in the past 5 years Eli - 2 Big Ben - 1 P Manning - 1 Brady - 0 This is a league of "what have you done for me lately". If Brady is Elite because he last won a Superbowl almost a DECADE ago, then you should at least look at recent history. I don't buy either oft those theories though. Elite is not based on Super Bowl success. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Marino was not elite because he didn't win a Super Bowl. It's just silly.
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Or you can look at it as... Rings in the past 5 years Eli - 2 Big Ben - 1 P Manning - 1 Brady - 0 This is a league of "what have you done for me lately". If Brady is Elite because he last won a Superbowl almost a DECADE ago, then you should at least look at recent history. I don't buy either oft those theories though. Elite is not based on Super Bowl success. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Marino was not elite because he didn't win a Super Bowl. It's just silly. It's a factor, not an end all
billsfan89 Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 B.Rothlisberger E.Manning P.Manning A.Rodgers D.Breese T.Brady That's about 6 all have got a Super Bowl to their name since 2003. I think that they are the elite truly elite. There are some other guys who are pretty good and I think Luck will be joining them soon and RGIII if he stays healthy (A huge if with him) will too. Cam Newton also has potential to be elite but can he put it all together? Matt Ryan and Schuab are good QB's but can they win in the playoffs? P.Manning and Brady are likely gonna be on their way out soon as both are in their mid 30's and subject to decline soon.
Rico Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Or you can look at it as... Rings in the past 5 years Eli - 2 Big Ben - 1 P Manning - 1 Brady - 0 This is a league of "what have you done for me lately". If Brady is Elite because he last won a Superbowl almost a DECADE ago, then you should at least look at recent history. I don't buy either oft those theories though. Elite is not based on Super Bowl success. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Marino was not elite because he didn't win a Super Bowl. It's just silly. Well, if you were going to only look at rings won the last 5 years, you would include Brees and Rodgers, drop Brady and also drop P-Gump (Big Game Chump). If he hadn't monumentally choked against the Saints, he would be there & not Brees.
LiterateStylish Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Well, if you were going to only look at rings won the last 5 years, you would include Brees and Rodgers, drop Brady and also drop P-Gump (Big Game Chump). If he hadn't monumentally choked against the Saints, he would be there & not Brees. I'm not. I'm simply saying if you ARE going to just look at Super Bowls then you should take time frame into that equation. Brady winning a SB almost a decade ago is not an indicator of elite status.
miserable_fan Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Three ELITE QBs in the league right now: Brady - 3 rings Big Ben - 2 rings Eli Gump - 2 rings lol?
GG Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 Certainly won't put them into elite category, but I just saw two clutch 4Q drives engineered by rookie QBs
Rico Posted December 9, 2012 Posted December 9, 2012 I'm not. I'm simply saying if you ARE going to just look at Super Bowls then you should take time frame into that equation. Brady winning a SB almost a decade ago is not an indicator of elite status. Just making sure you weren't trying to elevate P-Gump into elite status for something he clearly didn't do. Now, if you want to say elite "regular season" QBs, I have no problem putting him there.
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