Corp000085 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 A date which will live in Infamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dib Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Dumb@ss newscaster said it was the 70th anniversary of Pearl Harbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 At about this time on the 7th of December 1941 is when the bombs started dropping. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's sad to realize if we are attacked again a la pearl harbor 2 our reaction as a country would be much different. The majority of Americans would want someone else (other than themselves) to the greatest generation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 It's sad to realize if we are attacked again a la pearl harbor 2 our reaction as a country would be much different. The majority of Americans would want someone else (other than themselves) You're saying if Europe was under attack and losing, and if the Japanese attacked the US on US soil, that we wouldn't go to war with Japan and then join in the European war too? I doubt that very much. By the time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the US had been primed to finally join in the fight. It took a lot of years to turn the US mindset (lead by JFK's dad Joe Kennedy) in that direction though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 You're saying if Europe was under attack and losing, and if the Japanese attacked the US on US soil, that we wouldn't go to war with Japan and then join in the European war too? I doubt that very much. By the time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the US had been primed to finally join in the fight. It took a lot of years to turn the US mindset (lead by JFK's dad Joe Kennedy) in that direction though. Well yeah we would join the war but not after several weeks of hand wringing trying to figure why we deserved to be bombed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Well yeah we would join the war but not after several weeks of hand wringing trying to figure why we deserved to be bombed. Nothing has changed. Believe me... You don't think that was talked about? Of course it was... I mentioned @ another time how my paternal grandmother was simply crushed with the news of Pearl Harbor being attacked. For almost a decade earlier, she would help with scrap drives to send to Japan... Of course http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1930 "Ask a typical American how the United States got into World War II, and he will almost certainly tell you that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor and the Americans fought back. Ask him why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and he will probably need some time to gather his thoughts. He might say that the Japanese were aggressive militarists who wanted to take over the world, or at least the Asia-Pacific part of it. Ask him what the United States did to provoke the Japanese, and he will probably say that the Americans did nothing: we were just minding our own business when the crazy Japanese, completely without justification, mounted a sneak attack on us, catching us totally by surprise in Hawaii on December 7, 1941. You can’t blame him much. For more than 60 years such beliefs have constituted the generally accepted view among Americans, the one taught in schools and depicted in movies—what “every schoolboy knows.” Unfortunately, this orthodox view is a tissue of misconceptions. Don’t bother to ask the typical American what U.S. economic warfare had to do with provoking the Japanese to mount their attack, because he won’t know. Indeed, he will have no idea what you are talking about. In the late nineteenth century, Japan’s economy began to grow and to industrialize rapidly. Because Japan has few natural resources, many of the burgeoning industries had to rely on imported raw materials, such as coal, iron ore or steel scrap, tin, copper, bauxite, rubber, and petroleum. Without access to such imports, many of which came from the United States or from European colonies in southeast Asia, Japan’s industrial economy would have ground to a halt. By engaging in international trade, however, the Japanese had built a moderately advanced industrial economy by 1941..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 You're saying if Europe was under attack and losing, and if the Japanese attacked the US on US soil, that we wouldn't go to war with Japan and then join in the European war too? I doubt that very much. By the time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the US had been primed to finally join in the fight. It took a lot of years to turn the US mindset (lead by JFK's dad Joe Kennedy) in that direction though. No that's not what I'm saying. What I was trying to vaguely summarize is that by and large we have become a nation of entitled wussies. Would we today have lines around the block waiting for recruiting offices to open ? I doubt it. More likely we would be looking at why its our fault we got bombed and what we did to deserve it. Do you think by and large the public would step up to work hard jobs in factories, buy war bonds and participate in nightly blackouts and forgo needed items because of rationing ? Hell no we wouldn't. We are too selfish now and would want everyone one else to give up luxuries except for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 No that's not what I'm saying. What I was trying to vaguely summarize is that by and large we have become a nation of entitled wussies. Would we today have lines around the block waiting for recruiting offices to open ? I doubt it. More likely we would be looking at why its our fault we got bombed and what we did to deserve it. Do you think by and large the public would step up to work hard jobs in factories, buy war bonds and participate in nightly blackouts and forgo needed items because of rationing ? Hell no we wouldn't. We are too selfish now and would want everyone one else to give up luxuries except for ourselves. You gotta put it in perspective of the times... Nowadays, we are a lot better off. Sure there would be less lines... My father was too young for WWII, but when he went in the army... He got his first toothbrush... Heck, he didn't have indoor plumbing till a teenager... Up until then, they used an out house... Cold messy winters, the bed pan was your friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 It's sad to realize if we are attacked again a la pearl harbor 2 our reaction as a country would be much different. The majority of Americans would want someone else (other than themselves) to the greatest generation Pearl Harbor-2409 killed. 9-11-2996 killed. Different times and different Politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 May we never forget!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 You're saying if Europe was under attack and losing, and if the Japanese attacked the US on US soil, that we wouldn't go to war with Japan and then join in the European war too? I doubt that very much. By the time the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, the US had been primed to finally join in the fight. It took a lot of years to turn the US mindset (lead by JFK's dad Joe Kennedy) in that direction though. There's a 50-50 chance the US doesn't go to war in Europe if Hitler doesn't declare war first. Despite the fact that we'd basically been fighting Nazi Germany for months at that point...google "Reuben James". And by the way...Pearl Harbor was a military irrelevancy. If you want to know why, buy my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 google "Reuben James". The Sinking Of The Reuben James Words and Music by Woody Guthrie Have you heard of a ship called the good Reuben James Manned by hard fighting men both of honor and fame? She flew the Stars and Stripes of the land of the free But tonight she's in her grave at the bottom of the sea. Tell me what were their names, tell me what were their names, Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James? What were their names, tell me, what were their names? Did you have a friend on the good Reuben James Well, a hundred men went down in that dark watery grave When that good ship went down only forty-four were saved. 'Twas the last day of October we saved the forty-four From the cold ocean waters and the cold icy shore. It was there in the dark of that uncertain night That we watched for the U-boats and waited for a fight. Then a whine and a rock and a great explosion roared And they laid the Reuben James on that cold ocean floor. Now tonight there are lights in our country so bright In the farms and in the cities they're telling of the fight. And now our mighty battleships will steam the bounding main And remember the name of that good Reuben James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 There's a 50-50 chance the US doesn't go to war in Europe if Hitler doesn't declare war first. Despite the fact that we'd basically been fighting Nazi Germany for months at that point...google "Reuben James". And by the way...Pearl Harbor was a military irrelevancy. If you want to know why, buy my book. I will be happy to buy yours but I've read others. Agree re Europe...but the posters here are saying that the US now would not go to war. I'm saying that if Japan's attack had come 3 years earlier, the US almost certainly not have joined the European theater and its Pacific objectives would have been more limited. There would have been some calls to strike back at Japan somehow but would the Americans have fought for the Phillipines and to cut off the Japanese shipping lanes? Doubtful. The US had no interest in joining the war except as observer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 google "Reuben James". Holding. Offense. Number 79 Oh wait, wrong Ruben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 No that's not what I'm saying. What I was trying to vaguely summarize is that by and large we have become a nation of entitled wussies. Would we today have lines around the block waiting for recruiting offices to open ? I doubt it. More likely we would be looking at why its our fault we got bombed and what we did to deserve it. Do you think by and large the public would step up to work hard jobs in factories, buy war bonds and participate in nightly blackouts and forgo needed items because of rationing ? Hell no we wouldn't. We are too selfish now and would want everyone one else to give up luxuries except for ourselves. I agree that there seems to be a growing population of the "entitled," but I also think you underestimate the ability of the American public to come together in times of crisis. I happened to be in Denver on 9/11, and there were long lines of people who went out of their way to give blood because many people thought it would be needed. Turns out that when skyscrapers fall you pretty much survive unharmed or die (making blood donation unnecessary either way), but people didn't know that at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I agree that there seems to be a growing population of the "entitled,"... And there it is: the word "seems." The "entitled" throughout history have always paid to have their place taken. Also, the talented have been spared from harms way. Just reading about Dave Brubeck and how the war forever affected him. Seems he was spared from the Battle of the Bulge after palying his socks off @ a concert... He was then ordered to oragnize a band. Anyway, like I said above, different times. As a country, even having our social warts. We are an all volunteer service now... Many that were taken years ago into service, would be rejected today. Even back then, people were rejected from service. We are living better and better (still while many fall through the cracks of system). The sense of "entitlement" has reached the "masses." How many lawmakers children actually enlist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 And there it is: the word "seems." The "entitled" throughout history have always paid to have their place taken. Also, the talented have been spared from harms way. Just reading about Dave Brubeck and how the war forever affected him. Seems he was spared from the Battle of the Bulge after palying his socks off @ a concert... He was then ordered to oragnize a band. Anyway, like I said above, different times. As a country, even having our social warts. We are an all volunteer service now... Many that were taken years ago into service, would be rejected today. Even back then, people were rejected from service. We are living better and better (still while many fall through the cracks of system). The sense of "entitlement" has reached the "masses." How many lawmakers children actually enlist? How many taxpayers exist for each carp you count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 How many taxpayers exist for each carp you count? Probably not many... We are actually one of the few federal workers that earn their keep by keeping the economy flowing. :-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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