Mr. WEO Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Its also pretty important to stop cherry picking stats to protect a losing QB. First off, he had some nice pads in blowout losses to those stats. Most importantly, WATCH the games because this is a guy who misses wide open players all the time unless its under 10 yards. If its under 10 yards, he completes, but far too often puts the ball in a place so inaccurately that the receiving player can not make a play on the ball and we kill a drive...again. Not to mention, Fitz plays in Gaileys unbelievably pass happy offense, so by default, his stats will inflate. I mean Tyler Thigpen (who everyone agrees isnt even a good backup let alone a good QB) ranked 13th in TD's and won just ONE game with Gailey in 2008. Sound familiar with Gailey, the win column, and the QB TD total? How about his INT's? Yeah, left that off didnt you...he tied for 10th and has had about a dozen others dropped...not to mention 5 more fumbles. How about his QBR, which is by the far the best indicator of a QB's effectiveness statistically wise to date. Its not perfect, but its the best stat out there right now. His QBR ranks him 25th...I see you left that off your post. I want to say I cant believe how people still try and validate him as a good (or even more crazy Elite like PromoTheRobot was this weekend) QB in this league...but I cant say that, because I am not at all surprised after watching the same lame excuses being made for guys like JP and Trent for so many years despite them PROVING on the field of play consistently, that they are just not good enough. Gailey's "unbelievably pass happy offense" is in the bottom half of the league in pass attempts. Tough to "inflate" your stats when you are dropping back 31 times a game (19th). And you left off your post that Fitz's mediocre QBR is within 3 points of Vick, Newton, Bradford, Flacco, and far better than Rivers's. You must conclude they suck also (I would agree on Vick).
bobobonators Posted December 6, 2012 Author Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Gailey's "unbelievably pass happy offense" is in the bottom half of the league in pass attempts. Tough to "inflate" your stats when you are dropping back 31 times a game (19th). And you left off your post that Fitz's mediocre QBR is within 3 points of Vick, Newton, Bradford, Flacco, and far better than Rivers's. You must conclude they suck also (I would agree on Vick). Exactly, Fitzpatrick has the FEWEST attempts of the guys in the top 10 for TD's. Fitz has 373 pass attempts. closest to Fitz is freeman with 388..carson palmer who Fitz is tied with has 503..drew brees in 1st has 492 attempts. The average is in the 420's.. Gailey's "pass happy" offfense. Edited December 6, 2012 by bobobonators
BuffBill Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Not bad for someone who ranks 18th in salary among NFL QB's: 1. Peyton Manning, Broncos - $19.2 2. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers - $17 3. Michael Vick, Eagles - $16 4. Tom Brady, Patriots - $15.7 5. Eli Manning, Giants - $15.27 6. Drew Brees, Saints - $14.4 (Franchise Tagged in 2012) 7. Phillip Rivers, Chargers - $14.04 8. Sam Bradford, Rams - $13 9. Kevin Kolb, Cardinals - $12.6 10. Matthew Stafford, Lions - $12 11. Matt Ryan, Falcons - $12 12. Mark Sanchez, Jets - $11.64 13. Tony Romo, Cowboys - $11.17 14. Aaron Rodgers, Packers - $10.83 15. Carson Palmer, Raiders - $10.75 16. Matt Cassel, Chiefs - $10.5 17. Jay Cutler, Bears - $10 18. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bills - $9.8 19. Matt Schaub, Texans - $8 20. Alex Smith, 49ers - $8 (new contract for 2012) 21. Matt Hasselbeck, Titans - $6.67 22. Matt Flynn, Seahawks - $6.5 23. Joe Flacco, Ravens - $6 24. Andrew Luck, Colts - $5.9 25. Cam Newton, Panthers - $5.5 26. Robert Griffin, Redskins - $5.4 27. Josh Freeman, Bucs - $5.2 28. Chad Henne, Jaguars - $3.38 29. David Garrard, Dolphins - $3.35 30. Brandon Weeden, Browns - $2.8 31. Christian Ponder, Vikings - $2.54 32. Andy Dalton, Bengals - $1.3 Stats are so overrated. The Jaguars were 1st in the NFL in scoring in the Red Zone-shows you how worthless stats are. Fitz has been underperforming for his contract since the day he ripped off the Bills and signed the extension. He is consistenly towards the top in interceptions and turnovers. Has more balls batted down in a season then most QBs do in a career. He makes the worst decisions at the most critical times. The majority of his stats are garbage time stats when they are way behind and the defense is giving him yardage. And how many of his TD's are for more then 25 yards, not many, and even those one are mostly all yards after the catch. No team will ever compete for a division with Fitz at the QB helm, he is one of the worst in the league. He might be a real nice guy with a monster size heart, but how many games will that win you? Not many-obviously. As far as your list of salaries, you state he is kinda low for his product? I would take at least 10 of the guys listed below him over him any day of the year. Edited December 6, 2012 by BuffBill
bobobonators Posted December 6, 2012 Author Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Stats are so overrated. The Jaguars were 1st in the NFL in scoring in the Red Zone-shows you how worthless stats are. Fitz has been underperforming for his contract since the day he ripped off the Bills and signed the extension. He is consistenly towards the top in interceptions and turnovers. Has more balls batted down in a season then most QBs do in a career. He makes the worst decisions at the most critical times. The majority of his stats are garbage time stats when they are way behind and the defense is giving him yardage. And how many of his TD's are for more then 25 yards, not many, and even those one are mostly all yards after the catch. No team will ever compete for a division with Fitz at the QB helm, he is one of the worst in the league. He might be a real nice guy with a monster size heart, but how many games will that win you? Not many-obviously. I actually agree with you, that stat was worthless b/c if they only get to the red zone 3 times in 4 games and score all 3 times that's only 3 TD's in 4 games. As for garbage time stats, tell me, how many game-changing sacks has Mario Williams had this season; how many garbage time rushing yds has CJ had...or Freddy...or TD's for Stevie? "garbage time" is nonsense..unless the score is 60-3, every minute of an NFL game counts - the other team is still trying to destroy you. Edited December 6, 2012 by bobobonators
Alphadawg7 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Gailey's "unbelievably pass happy offense" is in the bottom half of the league in pass attempts. Tough to "inflate" your stats when you are dropping back 31 times a game (19th). And you left off your post that Fitz's mediocre QBR is within 3 points of Vick, Newton, Bradford, Flacco, and far better than Rivers's. You must conclude they suck also (I would agree on Vick). You do realize by pass happy that means passes more than he runs. Did I say we lead the league in pass attempts? And guess what...if Fitz didnt also rank 3rd in turnovers the last 2 years, and could extend drives, we probably would lead the league in pass attempts. But you see, there is this pesky problem of needing to have the ball, keep it, and continue drives to attempt more passes. Exactly, Fitzpatrick has the FEWEST attempts of the guys in the top 10 for TD's. Fitz has 373 pass attempts. closest to Fitz is freeman with 388..carson palmer who Fitz is tied with has 503..drew brees in 1st has 492 attempts. The average is in the 420's.. Gailey's "pass happy" offfense. Again, this is classic you. You ignore every meaningful FACT presented to you and just reiterate the same stuff that was just proven to be irrelevant by the stuff you chose to ignore. AGAIN I ask you...what was more important...the 7 TD's he threw in 2 blow out losses, 4 of which came during points of the game where the game was out of reach...or was it the 7 INT's and fumble he had in those same 2 divisional games at key parts of the game that heavily contributed to lop sided score? But I dont expect you to answer that once again because the only answer is the INTs but that disproves your desperate attempt to make Fitz look productive. Edited December 6, 2012 by Alphadawg7
bobobonators Posted December 6, 2012 Author Posted December 6, 2012 You do realize by pass happy that means passes more than he runs. Did I say we lead the league in pass attempts? And guess what...if Fitz didnt also rank 3rd in turnovers the last 2 years, and could extend drives, we probably would lead the league in pass attempts. But you see, there is this pesky problem of needing to have the ball, keep it, and continue drives to attempt more passes. this is a two-way street, you also have to have your defense give you the ball back eventually. Where does the Bills Offense rank as opposed to the Defense in productivity? Yes, lets talk about "continuing" drives on offense vs. the defense "ending" drives for the opponent. Lets have that conversation.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) this is a two-way street, you also have to have your defense give you the ball back eventually. Where does the Bills Offense rank as opposed to the Defense in productivity? Yes, lets talk about "continuing" drives on offense vs. the defense "ending" drives for the opponent. Lets have that conversation. Why dont you finish the conversation presented to you. You refuse to even acknowledge those facts and now want to switch to talking about the Defense rather the Fitz's individual prodcution because you have ZERO defense of this other than to stand there and boast out "9th in total TD's". How about you answer the question I have now asked you twice...what mattered more...his 7 TD's, 4 of which were at the end of the games when the blowout was all but done, or the 7 INTs and additional fumble in those same games that occurred throughout the game when the game still mattered? I told you that you would again ignore that question, as you do all points and questions that dont support a pointless attempt to validate Fitz to be better than he is. Whats more important...that he is top 20 in total TD's the last 2 years, or top 3 in most turnovers? Edited December 6, 2012 by Alphadawg7
bobobonators Posted December 6, 2012 Author Posted December 6, 2012 Why dont you finish the conversation presented to you. You refuse to even acknowledge those facts and now want to switch to talking about the Defense rather the Fitz's individual prodcution because you have ZERO defense of this other than to stand there and boast out "9th in total TD's". How about you answer the question I have now asked you twice...what mattered more...his 7 TD's, 4 of which were at the end of the games when the blowout was all but done, or the 7 INTs and additional fumble in those same games that occurred throughout the game when the game still mattered? I told you that you would again ignore that question, as you do all points and questions that dont support a pointless attempt to validate Fitz to be better than he is. Whats more important...that he is top 20 in total TD's the last 2 years, or top 3 in most turnovers? how about this, we leave the conversation where I started it? The point of the thread was simple: tied for 9th in TD's and 18th in salary this year. If you want to go on about QBR, that's fine, you can go there all you want man. And for TD's over turnovers, I'll leave it at this: a TD is an automatic 6 points, and an INT is not. PERIOD. There is this thing called a DEFENSE that gets paid to stop the other team from scoring from that INT/turnover.
HeHateMe Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 This is hardly an accomplishment. The NFL is a passing league, the best guys put up 35-40+ TD passes a year. Historically they look good but compare this to the current day NFL and it doesn't mean anything. What about his turnover #'s? Among the worst in the league for a starter.
JPS Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 or if his recievers would quit dropping the damn thing......Johnson Jones Chandler Wow!!! I guess people really believe in Fitz. I am amazed.
Captain Hindsight Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 I've said it many times, we could do a lot worse than Fitz.
BuffBill Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) I actually agree with you, that stat was worthless b/c if they only get to the red zone 3 times in 4 games and score all 3 times that's only 3 TD's in 4 games. As for garbage time stats, tell me, how many game-changing sacks has Mario Williams had this season; how many garbage time rushing yds has CJ had...or Freddy...or TD's for Stevie? "garbage time" is nonsense..unless the score is 60-3, every minute of an NFL game counts - the other team is still trying to destroy you. I apologize, I didn't realize this post was about them? Where did I say it doesn't count? Take off the fake Ryan Fitzpatrick beard and read the post. Edited December 6, 2012 by BuffBill
bobobonators Posted December 6, 2012 Author Posted December 6, 2012 I apologize, I didn't realize this post was about them? Where did I say it doesn't count? Take off the fake Ryan Fitzpatrick beard and read the post. lol. only if you throw away your Fitz voodoo doll
Jerry Jabber Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 I'm getting more than a little tired of the constant Fitzpatrick bashing here. 12 games have been played. The Bills are 16th in points scored and 4th in points scored against. Mularkey & Gailey have been the only Bills coaches that had offenses that weren't tanked in the bottom of the league every year since the 90's. Jauron's offenses were offensive!!
jumbalaya Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Actually the thing about Fitz this year has been his ability to engineer game winning 4th quarter drives.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 It is a pass happy league. Rules for WR are much tougher on DB's than during Kelly's day. Kelly would put up Brady numbers or better today running the K-Gun. Think about the receivers, line and running backs Kelly had!!! Lofton, Reed, Bebe, Metz, Thomas, and Davis. Behind a massive but athletic line. Those guys would score like the Pats of 2007!!! Fitz is inconsistent, which is why he belongs backing-up a starter.
Bronc24 Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 I don't give two sh**s about stats besides wins anymore. Fitzpatrick's game does not pass the eyeball test and I highly doubt there would be a fan in the league that would be excited if their team acquired him.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Over a season ago now the league has plenty of tape on how Fitz runs Gaileys offense. Those games were also at home. See Texans, 2nd pats game, Indy, Tenn game of this year You didn't make that part clear. You said he NEVER wins games in the 4th. PTR Edited December 6, 2012 by PromoTheRobot
Mr. WEO Posted December 6, 2012 Posted December 6, 2012 Stats are so overrated. The Jaguars were 1st in the NFL in scoring in the Red Zone-shows you how worthless stats are. Fitz has been underperforming for his contract since the day he ripped off the Bills and signed the extension. He is consistenly towards the top in interceptions and turnovers. Has more balls batted down in a season then most QBs do in a career. He makes the worst decisions at the most critical times. The majority of his stats are garbage time stats when they are way behind and the defense is giving him yardage. And how many of his TD's are for more then 25 yards, not many, and even those one are mostly all yards after the catch. No team will ever compete for a division with Fitz at the QB helm, he is one of the worst in the league. He might be a real nice guy with a monster size heart, but how many games will that win you? Not many-obviously. As far as your list of salaries, you state he is kinda low for his product? I would take at least 10 of the guys listed below him over him any day of the year. Especially the made up ones: "Has more balls batted down in a season then most QBs do in a career" "The majority of his stats are garbage time stats when they are way behind and the defense is giving him yardage" "his TD's are for more then 25 yards, not many, and even those one are mostly all yards after the catch." You do realize by pass happy that means passes more than he runs. Did I say we lead the league in pass attempts? And guess what...if Fitz didnt also rank 3rd in turnovers the last 2 years, and could extend drives, we probably would lead the league in pass attempts. But you see, there is this pesky problem of needing to have the ball, keep it, and continue drives to attempt more passes. Every team in the NFL passes more than it runs. Even so, Buffalo is in the top 10 in rushing plays. They are 22nd in pass attempts. Keep digging on that one. your bound to bury yourself completely soon. Again, this is classic you. You ignore every meaningful FACT presented to you and just reiterate the same stuff that was just proven to be irrelevant by the stuff you chose to ignore. You mean like the QBR point you brought up but then didn't respond to after it was pointed out the other QBs who have essentially the same rating? AGAIN I ask you...what was more important...the 7 TD's he threw in 2 blow out losses, 4 of which came during points of the game where the game was out of reach...or was it the 7 INT's and fumble he had in those same 2 divisional games at key parts of the game that heavily contributed to lop sided score? But I dont expect you to answer that once again because the only answer is the INTs but that disproves your desperate attempt to make Fitz look productive. If your are referring to the first pats game, how many points did NE score off Fitz's first int? His 2nd? His fumble? That's right, none. And after these 3 turnovers, what deficit had Fitz pt the team in? That's right, none. They were up by 2 TDs soon after. The Bills D erased that advantage in two 3 minute NE TD drives. NE scored again on their next possession--63 yards in 2 minutes. Their next possession they scored in 1:44. You get the picture..
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