"Building the Franchise the right way"

[KeisterHollow]

I almost posted this in another thread - the recent one about Nix claiming Fitz and Chan are safe - but, I decided it was a little too off topic.

 

Nix has stated multiple times that he is determined to set up a foundation that will allow the Bills to be successful year after year, as opposed to just trying to throw together a "Philly Dream Team". Now, I'm in my thirties, so I try to think about things from the perspective of a 70 year old when I'm reading between Nix's lines. He might see three losing seasons as the neccessary steps towards building a solid foundation - and, he might see keeping Fitz around until he's assembled all the right parts to then insert a young QB to be successful.

 

Anyway, I was watching the NY Giants vs Redskins last night, and I kept thinking about the state of the Skins last year, and the state of the Bills. The skins didn't really have a lot of talent. Now look at them - if they had a healthy team, they might very well be in the playoff picture. They're on the rise. I look at Buffalo, and this foundation that is already in year 3, and I see guys like Andy Levitre, Jairus Byrd, McKelvin - perhaps the most coveted FA's of their respected positions, G, S, and Special Teams, that we have to try to keep.

 

My belabored point here is this - it seems to me in the NFL you are always working with windows of time - 4 or 5 years, maybe - before you have to really bring in new talent and let go of some aging talent. Now, there are cornerstone players a team can build around for 10 years - LT's, QB's, WR's, LB's, DE's. After 3 years we are still without a truly good leader at ILB, without a viable QB, and that necessary WR opposite Stevie - not to mention an explosive TE (Chandler is good, but he's no burner).

 

So, at what point does building a foundation become more of a stagnation - a stuck in the mire, pointless enterprise? I say Nix has to find a QB this coming year, or at the very least totally solidify the rest of the team, so that we can go all in on a QB the following year. Otherwise we're just treading water, and that whole foundation idea becomes mute. In last nights game - Redskins vs Giants - Jon Gruden kept going over the pistol offense, and how good the Redskins running game was, etc. The Bills have a superior O-line, superior RB's, and equivalent WR's, IMO. You don't let that talent stagnate because you're too stubborn to get a QB who can win when it counts.

 

In summation, the idea of a "foundation" is only valid if you're committed to aquiring the right talent at the right time - because if you're passive, and wait for a QB to come to you - in our case - the window on the other key players who are part of the foundation narrows. Does anyone agree, here? A foundation in today's NFL should be put together in 3 to 4 years, before you start having to replace key players.

[Fixxxer]

The NFL is a QB show, without one you can spend decades building a team but you won't get far. It sucks to write this while talking about a team sport but it's the thruth.

 

Get a franchise QB and your team will go along with him.

[mrags]

I agree about replacing players in 3-5 years. Hopefully drafts are solid and you've got guys to come step in and produce after that's happened in certain situations.

 

I agree about the foundation as well. Personally I think we have Chan and Fitz for at least 1 more season. Nix MIGHT draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round this year but that's about it IMO. Personally, I'd rather see him draft a monster LB in the first (Teo is the dream pick from what it sounds like), and another LB early (3-4th round). Maybe add an early CB, and maybe another interior linemen and a WR. We've got the pieces to compete now (minus Chans playcalling) and hopefully we will be a little closer and more on point next year. If we keep going in the same road, we should be a winning ball club soon. Nelson killed is this year for sure on offense, and it'll give Jones, Easley, Graham more time to gel, Pears, Hairston, and Glenn more time to become very solid starters. CJ becomes more of a focal point as time goes on, Freddy gets older, and Chan gets more reliant on CJs ability.

 

Well, at least we can all hope.

 

I eouldbdoball this, and then in 2014 I'd bet the farm in the best one to come out. Probably that freshman kid now that's probably going to win the Heisman, that or Kelly's nephew. Or maybe they draft both.

Edited December 4, 2012 by mrags

[apuszczalowski]

I think the biggest change to the 'Skins from last season is at Qb and WR

 

They picked one of, if not the best QB in this years draft, and signed some good WRs. (Colts also improved with the biggest change being they picked one of the best Qbs to come out of the draft since they drafted their last HOFer QB)

 

Great QBs/QB play can mask alot of weaknesses in other areas. If it wasn't for Luck, the Colts would look pretty close to how they did last year, and without RGIII, the Redskins wouldn't be fighting for their division.

 

In all sports you have a window, especially if you aren't going to re-sign guys currently on your roster. I see no reason why the Bills won't be re-signing Levitre and Byrd this offseason, unless either wants to test the market themselves. The Bills are alot closer to being a playoffs team then they are at drafting #1 overall. They just went through another change in defence this offseason to go back to a 4-3 from the 3-4 they switched to 3 years ago which involves making changes to the roster and guys learning new schemes. Stability and other good draft/offseason and the team will continue to improve

[truth on hold]

The NFL is a QB show, without one you can spend decades building a team but you won't get far. It sucks to write this while talking about a team sport but it's the thruth.

 

Get a franchise QB and your team will go along with him.

Well its true its like starting pitchers in baseball. If you have a strong rotation you're competitive. If you're rotation is weak no matter what else you have can't make up for it.

Edited December 4, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I really think Nelson going down was the worst thing that happened to this team. He is so good in the slot and a big body to throw to that losing him really hurt Fitz's timing and trust of the slot. Also, I think the way to build a team is through the draft and resigning your good players. Byrd, Levitre, Wood, etc are guys we have to hold on to no matter what. Fitz will be the guy again next year only because that D needs a better group of LBs. Barnett's best days are behind him, Brandham has potential, but Sheppard is a backup. We need to get stronger up the middle on D and it starts with a MLB. QB is the First Round is 2014.

[auburnbillsbacker]

The NFL is a QB show, without one you can spend decades building a team but you won't get far. It sucks to write this while talking about a team sport but it's the thruth.

 

Get a franchise QB and your team will go along with him.

I agree. Imgaine if the Mariners could pitch Felix Hernandez 162 games a season. They would go from a bad team to a playoff team instantly. Having Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers as your QB is like that. Look at the last several years. Brady has played in 5 superbowls, Big Ben 3, and Manning 2. Those 3 guys are the AFCs QB every year in the superbowl. If the bills had an elite QB, they would be in a playoff postion right now. As for Nix, I think he has done a decent job of accumulating talent. Key free agents are getting resigned, so every year the talent level improves. Has he missed on some picks? Yes, but so does every GM. If he was in a positon to draft RGIII or Luck last year, he would look like a genius right now. The bills need to continue to accumulate talent, but if there is a chance to make a move for a franchise QB, they need to jump on it.

[DrDawkinstein]

The Skins are 6-6. The Bills are 5-7. It's not like the Skins are undefeated or even in 1st place in their division.

 

So even after the Skins got the coach/GM that the Bills fans wanted (Shanahan), and the QBs that the Bills fans wanted (McNabb and RG3), they arent sitting in a much better position. As a matter of fact, I think we could and would beat the Skins if we played them this year.

 

That being said, I understand and agree that QB is a very important position, and that it needs to be addressed in the draft. As soon as possible, which means as soon as there is a viable candidate. Not just drafting a QB to draft a QB.

 

Had Newton fallen to the Bills at #3 like Matt Ryan fell to the Falcons, I completely believe Nix would have drafted him. Had we been able to offer what the Skins could offer to move up, I believe we would have and grabbed RG3. However, keep in mind that also means we would not have our rookie shutdown corner (a position we are currently struggling at), and our strong performing rookie LT (a position that has been stung by injuries and fans have been screaming to draft early).

 

My point here is: There is no single right way to build a franchise when doing it from the ground up. The only right way is to get the best talent where and when possible. Sometimes that means getting a QB, sometimes that means getting an OT, sometimes that means getting a DT, etc. You can second guess every move and examine it with the benefit of hindsight, but it means nothing. All we can do is keep moving forward.

 

Each year Nix has been here, he has identified the same biggest weakness as the fans have, and every year he has gone out and addressed it. On top of doing something which hasnt happened at OBD in over a decade: keeping your own talent. That alone turns that 4-5 year window into 5-8 years. Not that we want to wait that long, but this isnt College Football either.

[Heathcliff]

A team is built from the trenches out, period. Couple that with a great QB and you will be a contender year after year. Nix and Chan understand building the D and O lines. And for the most part have hit on all OL/DL decisions (draft choices, and FA adds and exits). Now they just need to find that great QB..............

[BillsVet]

The Skins are 6-6. The Bills are 5-7. It's not like the Skins are undefeated or even in 1st place in their division.

 

So even after the Skins got the coach/GM that the Bills fans wanted (Shanahan), and the QBs that the Bills fans wanted (McNabb and RG3), they arent sitting in a much better position. As a matter of fact, I think we could and would beat the Skins if we played them this year.

 

That being said, I understand and agree that QB is a very important position, and that it needs to be addressed in the draft. As soon as possible, which means as soon as there is a viable candidate. Not just drafting a QB to draft a QB.

 

Had Newton fallen to the Bills at #3 like Matt Ryan fell to the Falcons, I completely believe Nix would have drafted him. Had we been able to offer what the Skins could offer to move up, I believe we would have and grabbed RG3. However, keep in mind that also means we would not have our rookie shutdown corner (a position we are currently struggling at), and our strong performing rookie LT (a position that has been stung by injuries and fans have been screaming to draft early).

 

My point here is: There is no single right way to build a franchise when doing it from the ground up. The only right way is to get the best talent where and when possible. Sometimes that means getting a QB, sometimes that means getting an OT, sometimes that means getting a DT, etc. You can second guess every move and examine it with the benefit of hindsight, but it means nothing. All we can do is keep moving forward.

 

Each year Nix has been here, he has identified the same biggest weakness as the fans have, and every year he has gone out and addressed it. On top of doing something which hasnt happened at OBD in over a decade: keeping your own talent. That alone turns that 4-5 year window into 5-8 years. Not that we want to wait that long, but this isnt College Football either.

 

Which team is trending upward and which is going nowhere again? Which team gives their fans something to have a little hope in and which one doesn't? Which one is more likely to have a bonafide franchise QB and which one may get one in the next draft?

 

I'll agree there is no blueprint for rebuilding. I can also tell you that rebuilds aren't successful when you radically change the defensive scheme twice in 3 years. They normally don't succeed when that rebuilding team avoids drafting a QB within the first two seasons to develop.

 

Donahoe was 31-49 in 5 seasons. Levy/Brandon 27-37 in 4. Buddy Nix is 15-29. Everyone agrees the first two groups weren't good enough, but the last guy, with almost 3 complete seasons, is worse. Is it rebuilding or tearing down?

[auburnbillsbacker]

Which team is trending upward and which is going nowhere again? Which team gives their fans something to have a little hope in and which one doesn't? Which one is more likely to have a bonafide franchise QB and which one may get one in the next draft?

 

I'll agree there is no blueprint for rebuilding. I can also tell you that rebuilds aren't successful when you radically change the defensive scheme twice in 3 years. They normally don't succeed when that rebuilding team avoids drafting a QB within the first two seasons to develop.

 

Donahoe was 31-49 in 5 seasons. Levy/Brandon 27-37 in 4. Buddy Nix is 15-29. Everyone agrees the first two groups weren't good enough, but the last guy, with almost 3 complete seasons, is worse. Is it rebuilding or tearing down?

 

So what did all 3 GMs lack? A QB. It is not rocket science, when the colts have Manning or Luck the team is good and the GM and coaching staff look good. When they didn't have a stud at QB, the GM and coach got fired. Nix and Gailey would seem great with Rodgers, Brady, or Brees leading the team.

Edited December 5, 2012 by auburnbillsbacker

[Big C]

I think the biggest change to the 'Skins from last season is at Qb and WR

 

They picked one of, if not the best QB in this years draft, and signed some good WRs. (Colts also improved with the biggest change being they picked one of the best Qbs to come out of the draft since they drafted their last HOFer QB)

 

 

Don't forget about their new RB Alfred Morris. He's easily the biggest addition behind RG3.

[Bills Fan888]

Just look at Nix's past career and compare it to us now.

 

Buddy took over as assistant GM of the Chargers in 2001 and as you can see here http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams.nsf/histories/chargers/, it took him three seasons to build up a playoff team. If you look at the people he drafted, he got some great players, especially his first season where he picked up LT and Drew Brees. So in his 3rd season as the Bills GM, we're looking at a 8-8 season, and if you look at the third season of the Chargers, they were in an even worse spot.

[3rdand12]

It's not fair to compare us to Washington or an even faster rising unexpectedly imo, Colts.

These two QB's i expect to become prominent names for quite awhile.

 

Nix has a good method and with Whaley coming up we can have some hope that our stock of players will continue to improve.

Bills are very strong at some key positions after last years full offseason and decent enough draft.

I know I'm in the minority but i can believe this team is settling down finally. Showing up in the defense lately.

Another decent off season like last year and some coaching tweaks ..ahem

[DrDawkinstein]

Which team is trending upward and which is going nowhere again? Which team gives their fans something to have a little hope in and which one doesn't? Which one is more likely to have a bonafide franchise QB and which one may get one in the next draft?

 

Define "trending upward" vs "going nowhere again", because neither team is in the playoffs and only have 1 game separating their records. The Skins are in the 7th spot, the Bills are in 9th, and even if we had their record we'd only be in 8th. Both teams have needs and issues that must be addressed.

 

It's "nice" to have a young talent to rally around. If our D had performed like they should have, we'd be just as cheery with our new signings, and waiting patiently to draft a QB. But the Skins fans have just as much to complain about as we do. And our complaining isnt going to stop even when we do draft a QB, and even if he does perform.

 

Kudos to the Skins for spending 3 1st round picks and 1 2nd round pick on their franchise QB. Heaven knows all of Snyder's big deals have always worked out perfectly. Imagine if the Bills went through all of those pics before finding a franchise QB. At least you'd still have plenty to complain about...

 

I'll agree there is no blueprint for rebuilding. I can also tell you that rebuilds aren't successful when you radically change the defensive scheme twice in 3 years.

 

Agreed, but that is more due to the "Coaching Legacy" and situation our dear owner has created over his 50+ years at the helm.

 

They normally don't succeed when that rebuilding team avoids drafting a QB within the first two seasons to develop.

 

But the Skins didnt do it until the start of the 3rd, so they must be doomed too, right? And not doing it until the 4th is guaranteed failure? Even though that's exactly what Smith and Nix did in San Diego when they "got by" with an under-performing Brees for a few years before drafting Rivers in their 4th season. They then went from 4-12 to 12-4 in 2004 and won the West. Too bad no one told them about the 2 year rule.

 

Again, there isn't one definite formula or time frame.

 

Donahoe was 31-49 in 5 seasons. Levy/Brandon 27-37 in 4. Buddy Nix is 15-29. Everyone agrees the first two groups weren't good enough, but the last guy, with almost 3 complete seasons, is worse. Is it rebuilding or tearing down?

 

Donahoe was 17-31 after his first 3 years, so unless the Bills lose out, they'll be about the same.

 

We all agree that the one thing they've all lacked, and the one thing the Bills need more than anything, is a real QB. And we will be addressing that within the next year. Just like the Skins will be addressing the holes they didnt get to while looking for a QB, too bad they wont have their top draft picks to help them. They belong to the Rams, who definitely proved taking a QB right away is definitely the way to go...

[Mr. WEO]

The Skins are 6-6. The Bills are 5-7. It's not like the Skins are undefeated or even in 1st place in their division.

 

 

 

Are you for real?? The Skins just beat everyone in their division--consecutively. They've lost a single game by more than 8 points. What are you watching?

[DrDawkinstein]

Are you for real?? The Skins just beat everyone in their division--consecutively. They've lost a single game by more than 8 points. What are you watching?

 

Good for them! But right now they are still only 1 win ahead of us, and not in the playoffs.

[Section242]

Shanahan's record is 2 games better than Gaileys in the same time frame. Washington looks to have found the QB the Bills haven't. Garcon has been hurt most of the year and their leading WR has 416 yds. Carolina was a team on the rise going into this year also. Easiest way to build hope is drafting a young QB.

[Mr. WEO]

Good for them! But right now they are still only 1 win ahead of us, and not in the playoffs.

 

They are playing well and are 1 game behind the defending SB champs. They are not a game ahead of "us". They are in the NFC.

 

And what has Nix done to address the biggest deficit identified by the fans--QB?

[KOKBILLS]

Each year Nix has been here, he has identified the same biggest weakness as the fans have, and every year he has gone out and addressed it. On top of doing something which hasnt happened at OBD in over a decade: keeping your own talent. That alone turns that 4-5 year window into 5-8 years. Not that we want to wait that long, but this isnt College Football either.

 

Really? You're using fans in a VERY general way here...For example, I'm a fan of over 40 years...And I've been screaming about the need at QB since...well...it seems like forever...I know there are quite a few right here at TBD who have done the same...Nix has Drafted ONE QB...In the 7th freaking Round in three years...On top of that he has brought in a few has-beens, or never-beens to compete with Fitz...Or more likely he brought those QB's in so there would be no-doubt Fitz would be the guy...So...No way I can agree with that statement...The Bills have done well to keep their own in the Nix era, I'll give you that much...But I can't back Nix as far as the Draft goes because he has not addressed the #1 Need on this Team IMHO...And for me at least, the Draft is #2 way I'm going to evaluate Nix...The #1 way I'm evaluating him is the way he over-valued Fitz, and under-valued QB's that he could have Drafted over the past 2 years at the very least...I don't think Buddy Nix is a good GM...I think he's over-rated by some Bills Fans...I think the rest of the league knows he's not that good...Good Scout, bad GM...