ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Same thing holds for a baseball bat. No. From 10 paces, the baseball bat has almost zero stopping power. I don't buy the argument that it would have happened just the same with anything else. A firearm is a convienient tool... And he used it. I buy into the argument that his impulses would have had a chance to decompress with a less effiencent murder suicide device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 True. So true. But why make it easy w/the task @ hand? One wants to do a job, you grab the most efficient tool available and/or handy. One thing about American society, we are grossly efficient @ times. Maybe, maybe not... It is what it is. There is no argument that a firearm makes the operator of that weapon deadly efficient with ease of operation. Some of us will actually go out of our way and find the torque wrench rather than use the kitchen pliers just because they are "handy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Some of us will actually go out of our way and find the torque wrench rather than use the kitchen pliers just because they are "handy". BS. Like I said... Think of the murders and suicides on these forums here. I seriously doubt they would have bashed their own brains in with a baseball bat on poor impulse control. Edited December 7, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) BS. Like I said... Think of the murders and suicides on these forums here. I seriously doubt they would have bashed their own brains in with a baseball bat on poor impulse control. You have to be an experienced batter but it can be done. Short, compact swing with a closed stance and above all, you have to keep your hands up. Edited December 7, 2012 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 BS. Like I said... Think of the murders and suicides on these forums here. I seriously doubt they would have bashed their own brains in with a baseball bat on poor impulse control. Rope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Rope Yeah... But your victim has at least a fighting chance. I am still gonna argue if the thing is lying around and handy... All it takes is one wrong impulse and the trigger is pulled. If it is going to be about the split second somebody's impulse control goes awry... The firearm is the perfect choice... Very few times one will get a second chance. One of my uncle's was a cop... He did say amazling, he entered a suicide where a kid blew half his face off and still lived... Anyway, Javon is not going to ride to visit Crennel and Pioli hang himself with a rope and get away with it... Edited December 7, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Anyway, Javon is not going to ride to visit Crennel and Pioli hang himself with a rope and get away with it... This is true. I was more referencing our own little murder-suicide on this board. Combination baseball bat and rope. So I don't think Javon's girlfriend would have had much of a chance regardless. Guy was going to kill himself, gun or no. Didn't have to visit Crennel and Pioli first. Could have written a note. That's what people usually do. This isn't a case that should be used for gun control arguments. Next time a guy sprays a shopping mall with an automatic, then we'll talk. In any case, we won't be seeing him again. Good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 This is true. I was more referencing our own little murder-suicide on this board. Combination baseball bat and rope. So I don't think Javon's girlfriend would have had much of a chance regardless. Guy was going to kill himself, gun or no. Didn't have to visit Crennel and Pioli first. Could have written a note. That's what people usually do. This isn't a case that should be used for gun control arguments. Next time a guy sprays a shopping mall with an automatic, then we'll talk. In any case, we won't be seeing him again. Good riddance. I was referencing the other suicide on the board where all it took was one quick shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I was referencing the other suicide on the board where all it took was one quick shot. Ah, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 This is true. I was more referencing our own little murder-suicide on this board. Combination baseball bat and rope. So I don't think Javon's girlfriend would have had much of a chance regardless. Guy was going to kill himself, gun or no. Didn't have to visit Crennel and Pioli first. Could have written a note. That's what people usually do. This isn't a case that should be used for gun control arguments. Next time a guy sprays a shopping mall with an automatic, then we'll talk. In any case, we won't be seeing him again. Good riddance. Or a Norwegian summer camp in a country that has the restrictive gun laws US anti gunners dream about. You can't disinvent guns. They exist and will continue to do so despite any law you can pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Or a Norwegian summer camp in a country that has the restrictive gun laws US anti gunners dream about. You can't disinvent guns. They exist and will continue to do so despite any law you can pass. And you certainly can't disinvent insane people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 And you certainly can't disinvent insane people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 And you certainly can't disinvent insane people. Was he ruled insane... The ruling there in Norway was ass-backwards if I recall?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Was he ruled insane... The ruling there in Norway was ass-backwards if I recall?? Once they found out that he was a federal worker and acted in the norm for a federal worker, they declined to call him insane because it would besmirch all federal workers. They claimed he just worked in the P.O. or at the toll booths in order to mitigate the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) Reason TV: Guns, head trauma, and macho culture didn’t kill Kasandra Perkins I’m not sure why I’m surprised by this take from Reason TV’s Kennedy on the media reactions to the Jovan Belcher murder-suicide. I expected Reason to defend gun rights; I even expected them to insist that individuals are to blame for their own actions, not inanimate objects or “society.” I wasn’t quite prepared for an argument that we need to recognize that evil exists, and that attempts to pawn off blame for evil acts on anyone but the individual is a dangerous impulse, especially when used to ride political hobby horses to exhaustion. (Video at link) Jovan Belcher’s suicide might have forced the question as to whether or not football has become too violent and punishing for its player, but killing his girlfriend elevates the action to something that cannot be justified by appeals to celebrity culture and pop psychology. Or even readily explained by scientific research suggesting traumatic injury causes permanent brain damage and behavioral problems. Killing your girlfriend is not a “behavioral problem”, it is a horrific, evil, cowardly act that is morally wrong to try to either explain or excuse through the science of battered brains. Yet everyone seemed to want to blame Belcher’s actions on something else. At CNN, former Democratic congressional candidate and Real World participant Kevin Powell talked about the problems of super-macho culture and the ready availability of guns. Bob Costas lost his nut when he turned the Jovan Belcher tragedy into an anti-gun rant. Costas has fallen further off the rails than Powell if he thinks a gun-free Belcher home would have also shown an absence of violence or murder. Instead of immediately reaching for our nearest ideological hobby horse, let’s stipulate an ugly truth: Sometimes people are bad. Brain injury did not pull the trigger that blew away both of Zoey Belcher’s parents one horrible Saturday morning. Jovan Belcher did, and for that he will rightly be remembered not as a big man, but as a bad man. http://hotair.com/ar...sandra-perkins/ . Edited December 8, 2012 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Once they found out that he was a federal worker and acted in the norm for a federal worker, they declined to call him insane because it would besmirch all federal workers. They claimed he just worked in the P.O. or at the toll booths in order to mitigate the damage. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 No. From 10 paces, the baseball bat has almost zero stopping power. I don't buy the argument that it would have happened just the same with anything else. A firearm is a convienient tool... And he used it. I buy into the argument that his impulses would have had a chance to decompress with a less effiencent murder suicide device. Pardon me for not understanding you meant "range" when you typed "efficiency," you !@#$ing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Was he ruled insane... The ruling there in Norway was ass-backwards if I recall?? He was not, but legal insanity is much different than actual insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Dash cams from the cops that found him sleeping in his car (and conversation that followed) and one from a car responding to arrowhead http://m.deadspin.com/5966808/heres-the-police-cruiser-dashboard+camerma-video-of-jovan-belcher-at-3-am-on-the-morning-of-the-shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) Dash cams from the cops that found him sleeping in his car (and conversation that followed) and one from a car responding to arrowhead http://m.deadspin.com/5966808/heres-the-police-cruiser-dashboard+camerma-video-of-jovan-belcher-at-3-am-on-the-morning-of-the-shooting I saw that. They couldn't compel him to go inside if he didn't want to... But he did go inside.. Maybe they should have just left him sleep in his car... ?? Edited December 8, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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