Self defense or murder?

[Bigfatbillsfan]

so, i'm wondering if anyone here still doubts that this guy is a psychopath?

 

Hard to tell given what we know about him. I have a lot of psychology in my background and schooling. Given what we see in the articles, psychopathy doesn't seem to fit. He was clearly paranoid and that is generally not found in Psychopaths. In his mug shot it looks like he's let himself go. But we don't know when that shot was taken. But if he is paranoid and not taking care of himself physically (and those are the only two things we can deduce, no well, but can deduce from the articles) I would go with some sort of schizo-dissociative. That would explain the paranoia, social isolation, and lack of self care.

 

But then again, we don't have access to him and don't know what's going through his head all the time. Could be that he's just an ass hole.

 

See, that's just it: by (mis)using his "knowledge" as a doctor to put weight behind his words, he's doing exactly what I said he was. He's in no better a position to make this judgement: "so, i'm wondering if anyone here still doubts that this guy is a psychopath?" than any of the rest of us given the amount of direct exposure he's had to the man in question. Which is to say that he's completely unqualified. As are you. As am I.

 

 

And this is exactly why we shouldn't solicit, or offer, professional opinions on anoymous internet message boards.

 

If you think I was serious regarding BD or Doc giving you a "chill pill" maybe you should seek the services of a psychiatrist. Like, one in an office near you, that you could talk to face to face. That person would have the professional knowledge and access to make a real diagnoses. And figure out why you think people speculating on a football message board with no qualification to make a legal diagnosis regarding anything means anything to you.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Bigfatbillsfan

[Jauronimo]

Hard to tell given what we know about him. I have a lot of psychology in my background and schooling. Given what we see in the articles, psychopathy doesn't seem to fit. He was clearly paranoid and that is generally not found in Psychopaths. In his mug shot it looks like he's let himself go. But we don't know when that shot was taken. But if he is paranoid and not taking care of himself physically (and those are the only two things we can deduce, no well, but can deduce from the articles) I would go with some sort of schizo-dissociative. That would explain the paranoia, social isolation, and lack of self care.

 

But then again, we don't have access to him and don't know what's going through his head all the time. Could be that he's just an ass hole.

 

 

 

If you think I was serious regarding BD or Doc giving you a "chill pill" maybe you should seek the services of a psychiatrist. Like, one in an office near you, that you could talk to face to face. That person would have the professional knowledge and access to make a real diagnoses. And figure out why you think people speculating on a football message board. With no qualification to make a legal diagnosis regarding anything means anything to you.

Did this sound as retarded in your head as it reads in text?

[Bigfatbillsfan]

Did this sound as retarded in your head as it reads in text?

 

No, but now that I reread it it does sound a little retarded.

 

Hey, are you trying to diagnose me over the internet?

[birdog1960]

there are a plethora of pundits with various credentials speculating about such matters all over the place including national tv networks. here's an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Welner. While i clearly lack his credentials to comment on CBS or PBS on this particular case i certainly think i'm more qualified to than the average guy and this aint the national media. regarding ethical questions, i'm unaware of anty ethical issue raised in such speculation. if i had actually interviewed the man or had confidential information that would be an ethical issue. I don't.

[birdog1960]

Hard to tell given what we know about him. I have a lot of psychology in my background and schooling. Given what we see in the articles, psychopathy doesn't seem to fit. He was clearly paranoid and that is generally not found in Psychopaths. In his mug shot it looks like he's let himself go. But we don't know when that shot was taken. But if he is paranoid and not taking care of himself physically (and those are the only two things we can deduce, no well, but can deduce from the articles) I would go with some sort of schizo-dissociative. That would explain the paranoia, social isolation, and lack of self care.

 

But then again, we don't have access to him and don't know what's going through his head all the time. Could be that he's just an ass hole.

 

I suspect we can agree that when fully evaluated, he will very likely be diagnosed with a recognizable psychiatric condition.

[....lybob]

This case has some weirdness still waiting to come out I think.

 

1. One neighbor describes Smith as a loner who likes to shoot guns on his property

 

2. but this seems to contradict the loner tag

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith of California, whom Byron Smith called after the shootings, said his brother was the victim of a string of break-ins over the past couple of years. Byron Smith reported one, on Oct. 27, to the sheriff's office. He told investigators that $500 in cash and a $3,000 camera were stolen.

 

When asked about possible suspects, Byron Smith said he often worked with kids and used to allow his friend's son and his friends to have band practice in his garage. He stopped it when they kept inviting too many friends and it got out of hand. "That would have made kids aware of where he lives and how secluded his residence is from the road," the incident report said.

 

another neighbor said Smith would have 30 teenagers on his property at a time

 

so which is it, Loner or teen hangout place

 

3. Smith had multiple Terabytes of data storage- a reporter described it as being similar to what his news operation had.

 

4. prescription drugs were found in the teens car but they were anti-diabetic and cholesterol lowering medication, not pain killer, sleep medicine or stimulants

 

5. a Calvin Klein bag of sex toys were found in the teens car and a baseball bat

 

6. While the Break-in to the teachers house was thought to happen the 21st the day before the shootings it was not discovered until the 25th by a neighbor as the teacher was on vacation in Spain

 

7. Smith says he was in the basement and was alerted to the break-in by the sound of breaking glass and footsteps - then he arms himself and sets up an ambush - OK here is the part I don't get he seems to know that there are two intruders, not one not three or four just two- The male comes in gets shoots at the top of the stairs falls down the stairs Smith shoots him in the head, Smith gets the male on a tarp and drags him out of sight (supposedly in 18 seconds) and repositions himself- the girl comes down he shoots her at the top of the stairs she falls down the stairs he tries to shoot her again but the rifle jams (this is where she supposedly laughs) he puts down his rifle pulls out his 22 walks over and put 2 in her chest drags her over to her cousin hears her still trying to breath and delivers the kill shot.

 

Kosovich then recounted parts of the audio recording recovered from Smith’s home after search warrants were issued following the shooting. According to Kosovich, the audio surveillance recovered recorded sounds of Smith shooting Nicholas Brady as he descended the steps of Smith’s basement. Smith is then heard on the recording saying, “You’re dead,” before taking additional shots at Brady, and according to the criminal complaint, shooting Brady in the face at point blank range. Kosovich said the audio recording documents Smith had a tarp ready to roll Brady’s body into within 18 seconds of the final shots taken at Brady.

“I listened to that recording a number of times,” Kosovich told the court.

Kosovich said the recording also shows Smith had his gun reloaded within 10 minutes from the final shots taken at Nick Brady.

Kosovich said the audio surveillance then recorded Haile Kifer calling out for Nicholas Brady before descending the stairs. Smith’s first shot is heard on the recording and then the sound of his gun jamming, which align with the details of the criminal complaint. Kosovich said Smith then said to Kifer, “Oh, sorry about that.”

The surveillance then records Kifer moaning in pain and saying, “Oh my God. Oh my God,” then several more shots are taken.

Kosovich told the court Smith then said to Kifer, “You’re dying, you’re dying,” as she fell to his basement floor.

Kosovich then told the court Smith took another shot and is heard to say, presumably to Kifer, “[filtered word],” as he drug her body to the basement office space.

Kosovich said one minute and 15 seconds passed before Smith took his final shots, shooting Kifer in the head three times. “There’s no way that’s self-defense, your honor,” Kosovich told Judge Anderson.

8. Why so fast to the basement, the basement would be the last place I'd look for valuables unless I had been in the house before.

 

9. Why did the girl go to the basement? didn't she hear the shots ?

 

In the end I think we will find out that these people were not total strangers to each other

[Doc]

This case has some weirdness still waiting to come out I think.

 

1. One neighbor describes Smith as a loner who likes to shoot guns on his property

 

2. but this seems to contradict the loner tag

 

 

another neighbor said Smith would have 30 teenagers on his property at a time

 

so which is it, Loner or teen hangout place

 

3. Smith had multiple Terabytes of data storage- a reporter described it as being similar to what his news operation had.

 

4. prescription drugs were found in the teens car but they were anti-diabetic and cholesterol lowering medication, not pain killer, sleep medicine or stimulants

 

5. a Calvin Klein bag of sex toys were found in the teens car and a baseball bat

The cousins were having sex with each other?

 

6. While the Break-in to the teachers house was thought to happen the 21st the day before the shootings it was not discovered until the 25th by a neighbor as the teacher was on vacation in Spain

 

7. Smith says he was in the basement and was alerted to the break-in by the sound of breaking glass and footsteps - then he arms himself and sets up an ambush - OK here is the part I don't get he seems to know that there are two intruders, not one not three or four just two- The male comes in gets shoots at the top of the stairs falls down the stairs Smith shoots him in the head, Smith gets the male on a tarp and drags him out of sight (supposedly in 18 seconds) and repositions himself- the girl comes down he shoots her at the top of the stairs she falls down the stairs he tries to shoot her again but the rifle jams (this is where she supposedly laughs) he puts down his rifle pulls out his 22 walks over and put 2 in her chest drags her over to her cousin hears her still trying to breath and delivers the kill shot.

He had CCTV. I assume he could see that there were 2 people entering into his home.

 

 

8. Why so fast to the basement, the basement would be the last place I'd look for valuables unless I had been in the house before.

 

9. Why did the girl go to the basement? didn't she hear the shots ?

 

In the end I think we will find out that these people were not total strangers to each other

The guy's house had been broken-into several times in the past. The obvious answer is that these 2 kids were the ones who did it (or at least once) before.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

This case has some weirdness still waiting to come out I think.

 

1. One neighbor describes Smith as a loner who likes to shoot guns on his property

 

2. but this seems to contradict the loner tag

 

 

another neighbor said Smith would have 30 teenagers on his property at a time

 

so which is it, Loner or teen hangout place

 

3. Smith had multiple Terabytes of data storage- a reporter described it as being similar to what his news operation had.

 

4. prescription drugs were found in the teens car but they were anti-diabetic and cholesterol lowering medication, not pain killer, sleep medicine or stimulants

 

5. a Calvin Klein bag of sex toys were found in the teens car and a baseball bat

 

6. While the Break-in to the teachers house was thought to happen the 21st the day before the shootings it was not discovered until the 25th by a neighbor as the teacher was on vacation in Spain

 

7. Smith says he was in the basement and was alerted to the break-in by the sound of breaking glass and footsteps - then he arms himself and sets up an ambush - OK here is the part I don't get he seems to know that there are two intruders, not one not three or four just two- The male comes in gets shoots at the top of the stairs falls down the stairs Smith shoots him in the head, Smith gets the male on a tarp and drags him out of sight (supposedly in 18 seconds) and repositions himself- the girl comes down he shoots her at the top of the stairs she falls down the stairs he tries to shoot her again but the rifle jams (this is where she supposedly laughs) he puts down his rifle pulls out his 22 walks over and put 2 in her chest drags her over to her cousin hears her still trying to breath and delivers the kill shot.

 

 

8. Why so fast to the basement, the basement would be the last place I'd look for valuables unless I had been in the house before.

 

9. Why did the girl go to the basement? didn't she hear the shots ?

 

In the end I think we will find out that these people were not total strangers to each other

 

How long ago was it that he let teens practice in his garage? I have a feeling he became socially and physically withdrawn over the course of a few years.

 

As far as why did the girl go down the stairs: I think she was waiting in the car while the guy went in to grab something out of the basement real quick. Chances are they were in the house before and had a good idea where things were. When he didn't come back quickly she went in to see if he was OK. That would explain why she didn't hear the shots.

[....lybob]

The cousins were having sex with each other? I saw it more like maybe a sex for hire or porn thing

 

 

He had CCTV. I assume he could see that there were 2 people entering into his home.- Probably but that is not in his statement

 

 

 

The guy's house had been broken-into several times in the past. The obvious answer is that these 2 kids were the ones who did it (or at least once) before. They may have broken-in before but I bet they been in the house in a different capacity before they broke-in

[Rob's House]

I've got a theory.

 

So this guy's letting these kids use his house, probably an old loser trying to be cool with the kids, and they start to take advantage of him. The kids have no respect for him and start breaking in to steal his ****. He gets wise to what's going on, so he sets the trap. Tells them all he'll be out of town then waits to see who takes the bait. When they break in and come down into the basement he gets to exact his revenge for their betrayal under the guise of shooting home invaders. This explains the preparation and malice behind it all.

 

Now, this isn't Trayvon Martin & I'm not a knee jerk retard who bends reality to fit my narrative, so I'm treating this merely as a theory rather than an assertion of what actually happened, but I think it fits the facts better than anything else I've heard.

[....lybob]

I've got a theory.

 

So this guy's letting these kids use his house, probably an old loser trying to be cool with the kids, and they start to take advantage of him. The kids have no respect for him and start breaking in to steal his ****. He gets wise to what's going on, so he sets the trap. Tells them all he'll be out of town then waits to see who takes the bait. When they break in and come down into the basement he gets to exact his revenge for their betrayal under the guise of shooting home invaders. This explains the preparation and malice behind it all.

 

Now, this isn't Trayvon Martin & I'm not a knee jerk retard who bends reality to fit my narrative, so I'm treating this merely as a theory rather than an assertion of what actually happened, but I think it fits the facts better than anything else I've heard.

I think this is pretty close but I'll add I think there was also a sex angle going on- it would explain why the first 7 break-ins were not reported, the massive data storage, and the bag of sex toys.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

I think this is pretty close but I'll add I think there was also a sex angle going on- it would explain why the first 7 break-ins were not reported, the massive data storage, and the bag of sex toys.

 

I have a theory also. But it involves the sex toys and aliens.

 

I've got a theory.

 

So this guy's letting these kids use his house, probably an old loser trying to be cool with the kids, and they start to take advantage of him. The kids have no respect for him and start breaking in to steal his ****. He gets wise to what's going on, so he sets the trap. Tells them all he'll be out of town then waits to see who takes the bait. When they break in and come down into the basement he gets to exact his revenge for their betrayal under the guise of shooting home invaders. This explains the preparation and malice behind it all.

 

Now, this isn't Trayvon Martin & I'm not a knee jerk retard who bends reality to fit my narrative, so I'm treating this merely as a theory rather than an assertion of what actually happened, but I think it fits the facts better than anything else I've heard.

 

Not a bad theory. If the Prosecution can prove this I think he stands for murder 1.

[Fan in San Diego]

I've got a theory.

 

So this guy's letting these kids use his house, probably an old loser trying to be cool with the kids, and they start to take advantage of him. The kids have no respect for him and start breaking in to steal his ****. He gets wise to what's going on, so he sets the trap. Tells them all he'll be out of town then waits to see who takes the bait. When they break in and come down into the basement he gets to exact his revenge for their betrayal under the guise of shooting home invaders. This explains the preparation and malice behind it all.

 

Now, this isn't Trayvon Martin & I'm not a knee jerk retard who bends reality to fit my narrative, so I'm treating this merely as a theory rather than an assertion of what actually happened, but I think it fits the facts better than anything else I've heard.

 

Pretty good theory. I think it fits very well with what we have read so far.

[Jauronimo]

Thank god for CSI: Special Perverts and Sex Crimes Unit and all its spin-offs. Now everyone is a criminal profiler with keen insight into the minds of killers and also skilled in forensic pathology.

[3rdnlng]

Thank god for CSI: Special Perverts and Sex Crimes Unit and all its spin-offs. Now everyone is a criminal profiler with keen insight into the minds of killers and also skilled in forensic pathology.

 

I can do a DNA test now in 45 minutes and tell you that 2 weeks ago that slain garment worker was working in Chuayang Province on a red tea farm. Most likely in the office.

[section122]

any updates on this?

[Bigfatbillsfan]

Thank god for CSI: Special Perverts and Sex Crimes Unit and all its spin-offs. Now everyone is a criminal profiler with keen insight into the minds of killers and also skilled in forensic pathology.

 

I'm more a BBC's Sherlock type of guy.

[Fezmid]

any updates on this?

I haven't heard anything recently...

[KD in CA]

Annnnnnnd they're off!!!

 

http://gma.yahoo.com/minnesota-man-accused-murdering-teens-entered-home-131438361--abc-news-topstories.html

[DC Tom]

Annnnnnnd they're off!!!

 

http://gma.yahoo.com...topstories.html

 

“The problem is that Byron Smith fired multiple shots,” Abrams said. “You don’t have the right to execute an intruder. If he had fired one shot at each of these intruders, he’d have a much stronger defense.”

 

Said no one who ever know anything about handguns, ever.