Ramius Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) You break into someone's house, you forfeit your right to life. I've got no problem with what the guy did. You have no idea what the person in your house intends to do to you, your house, or your loved ones. You've got the right to prevent anything from happening by any means necessary. Edited December 3, 2012 by Ramius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Self defense doesn't give you the right to sleep on it (that right is reserved for the Kennedys) and then administer a coup de grace when you notice that one of your would be burglars is still breathing. Maybe the guy was just totally shocked causing him to act the way he did, but his actions after shooting the dude, including moving the body, finishing off the girl, and his rationale for waiting as long as he did to call the authorities all strike me as awfully strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 3, 2012 Author Share Posted December 3, 2012 Self defense doesn't give you the right to sleep on it (that right is reserved for the Kennedys) and then administer a coup de grace when you notice that one of your would be burglars is still breathing. He didn't sleep on it - it all happened at the same time. The only delay was that he didn't call the police (or more aptly, ask his neighbor to call the police for some reason) until the next day. (not wanting to bother the police on Thanksgiving sounds... odd... though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Burglar comes downstairs and Smith shoots him twice. Burglar moves and gets shot again. Smith drags his body out of sight and sits down and waits for girl burglar. She comes downstairs and he shoots and wounds her. He goes to shoot her a second time and his rifle jams. She's on the floor and he picks up a pistol and walks over to her and finishes her off. This is per Smith. I think Smith will be spending his retirement in a very secure facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 You break into someone's house, you forfeit your right to life. I've got no problem with what the guy did. You have no idea what the person in your house intends to do to you, your house, or your loved ones. You've got the right to prevent anything from happening by any means necessary. Dude, that's crazy. I agree that when someone breaks in you have the option of using deadly force, and as I said before, I usually err on the side of the home owner, but how do you justify methodically shooting an 18 year old girl execution style after she's already been incapacitated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 He didn't sleep on it - it all happened at the same time. The only delay was that he didn't call the police (or more aptly, ask his neighbor to call the police for some reason) until the next day. (not wanting to bother the police on Thanksgiving sounds... odd... though). Thats what I meant by sleeping on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Dude, that's crazy. I agree that when someone breaks in you have the option of using deadly force, and as I said before, I usually err on the side of the home owner, but how do you justify methodically shooting an 18 year old girl execution style after she's already been incapacitated? Â Unless it was a small child, I don't see how age or gender make any difference. What's crazy is a society that excuses behavior that is totally without any justification whatsoever -- like breaking into someone else's house. Â Bottom line is, no innocent people were harmed. Save the cell for a real criminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 i just see this as very sad. it brings up lots of questions: why would the girl go down the basement stairs after hearing gunshots (and her cousin reportedly didn't have a gun)? why didn't she run even if she had to go through the broken window she came in through? why were any of them doing what they were doing on thanksgiving? the kids, with the loving grandma letter, with no family around burglarizing a home (i know, i live in fairy tale land where families get together on thanksgiving but still...). smith, working in his basement alone, armed to the teeth? seems like some very sad, dysfunctional, miserable folks crossed paths and the outcome was terrible. but it makes me wonder how many more miserable heartland folks are capable of these actions. Â don't know if it was murder or not. i don't know enough about the law or the circumstances. i do think it's an indictment on the morals and values of all concerned and maybe even society in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Burglar comes downstairs and Smith shoots him twice. Burglar moves and gets shot again. Smith drags his body out of sight and sits down and waits for girl burglar. She comes downstairs and he shoots and wounds her. He goes to shoot her a second time and his rifle jams. She's on the floor and he picks up a pistol and walks over to her and finishes her off. This is per Smith. I think Smith will be spending his retirement in a very secure facility. I agree with you that he likely will, but I believe this is an area where the law is wrong, and don't think he should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 I agree with you that he likely will, but I believe this is an area where the law is wrong, and don't think he should. That's why I asked the question though -- it seems a lot of people feel like many do in this thread -- "Yeah, he was probably wrong, but I'd never convict him." That's why I think this is such an interesting case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 He should be thrown in jail simply for not banging the chick before he shot her again. Â Self Defense for shooting the guy. 2nd Degree Murder for killing the girl. 1st Degree Stupidity for not taking a piece of that. Â Case Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Dude, that's crazy. I agree that when someone breaks in you have the option of using deadly force, and as I said before, I usually err on the side of the home owner, but how do you justify methodically shooting an 18 year old girl execution style after she's already been incapacitated? Â I'm pretty close to Rob's opinion. I have no problem with a homeowner using deadly force if necessary. This guy seemed, however, to move beyond the initial 'defense' mode and move into a killing zone. Â I think we can all agree it is a very bizarre story. Multiple, separate shots to both intruders. Taking time to drag the first body around...and then taking a seat in his chair. Not calling the cops??? very weird. I can also empathize with the fact that this guy had 'no intent' of doing any harm that day. He was just minding his own business in his basement...and we are now to call him a criminal?? It's absolutely a tough call but I vote that he did cross a line....especially with the second intruder. This is giving me a headache.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Some reports have said that the burglars had robbed him in the past. I don't think it's been confirmed though (only confirmation is that his specific house had been robbed 8 times in the past, although allegedly only one was reported to police). Â Burglar comes downstairs and Smith shoots him twice. Burglar moves and gets shot again. Smith drags his body out of sight and sits down and waits for girl burglar. She comes downstairs and he shoots and wounds her. He goes to shoot her a second time and his rifle jams. She's on the floor and he picks up a pistol and walks over to her and finishes her off. This is per Smith. I think Smith will be spending his retirement in a very secure facility. If both these accounts are in any way accurate -- the guy's cooked. He stepped over a line from self defense to murder and it won't be difficult to make that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I guess who I know who's house to walk in and rob should I ever need to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I guess who I know who's house to walk in and rob should I ever need to do so... Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you don't have a right to protect your home and person. But there's a difference between justifiable homicide and straight up murder regardless of the geographical location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Â Â Â If both these accounts are in any way accurate -- the guy's cooked. He stepped over a line from self defense to murder and it won't be difficult to make that case. Â Â I don't disagree at all. I think the problem PPP has is that a guy was innocently doing his schit at home when he was invaded. The thinking is, why should he be punished? Well, in my opinion, he went too far. He could have left them alive for the police. OTOH, I haven't lost any sleep over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Wrong. Burglars commit violent acts all the time. He has no way of knowing their intent, if they are armed, etc. He is not a trained police officer, nor should he be expected to act like one on a moments notice. Â Â You are correct in saying that he had no way of knowing their intent. Reading the articles and the statements that he allegedly made to the investigators, he disabled the threat therefore removing any intent on their part. Looks like he is being charged with his actions after disabling the threat. I don't believe all the details are out so I wouldn't rush to judgement here because no one knows for sure what went on inside that house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Â He didn't sleep on it - it all happened at the same time. The only delay was that he didn't call the police (or more aptly, ask his neighbor to call the police for some reason) until the next day. (not wanting to bother the police on Thanksgiving sounds... odd... though). Â Why the heck would he NOT call the police? Because it was a holiday? Thanksgiving? What did he do, go back to the dinner table and sit down to enjoy turkey and trimmings while two dead bodies lay in his house? Somebody said he moved them? Huh? If that ain't creepy? How the hell do you discharge a weapon, kill two people and then settle down for the holiday with blood and guts in your domicile... Oops, I mean castle! Yikes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted December 4, 2012 Author Share Posted December 4, 2012 Why the heck would he NOT call the police? Because it was a holiday? You're just not very considerate of other people! He wanted the police to be able to enjoy their holiday and not clean up the mess. You'd call them and ruin their holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 This guy is really going to have to push the narrative of an elderly man, living in fear after a number of prior break ins and robberies. For his sake, I hope thats the case. Having your home broken into can certainly take away anyones sense of security and safety. I'm guessing after the last break-in this guy drew a line in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts