Chef Jim Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Annnnnnnd they're off!!! http://gma.yahoo.com...topstories.html Interesting timing on this. Our house was broken in to last year and we've decided to get a gun for home defense. Step one take a safety course which we took this past weekend. What they taught us is a handgun in not used to kill someone who is in your home. It is meant to make them stop. Lethal force is a very, very last resort. Seeing they were unarmed there is no reason to shoot them. For me if I'm faced with this it's (with the gun pointed at their head) "STOP mother!@#$er. Don't make a !@#$ing move!! Hands where I can see them NOW!!" I told my wife the next step is to be able to hold the gun on them and dial 911 at the same time. She sent me this email from a gun dealer friend of ours. Rules of a gunfight 1. Bring a gun. Preferably bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns. 2.Bring four times the ammunition you think you could ever need. 3.Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammunition is cheap – life is expensive. 4.If you’re going to shoot, shoot – don’t talk. 5.Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss. 6.If your shooting stance is good, you’re probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly. 7.Move away from your attacker and go to cover. Distance is your friend. 8.A handgun is a tool you can use to fight your way to a rifle or shotgun. Don’t carry any handgun whose caliber doesn’t begin with a .4. 9.In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance or tactics. They will only remember who lived. 10.If you’re not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading and running. 11.Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty. 12.Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose. 13.Have a plan. Have a back-up plan because the first one won’t work. “No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy.” 14.Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours and look behind you. 15.Use cover and concealment as much as possible but remember, drywall stops nothing but your pulse when bullets pass through. 16.Don’t drop your guard. It’s not over until it’s over. Reload now. “Wolves travel in packs.” 17.Watch their hands. Hands kill, but facial expressions don’t. 18.Decide now to always be aggressive enough, quickly enough. 19.Be polite, be professional. “In God we trust but everyone else keep your hands where I can see them.” 20.Personal security is dependent upon a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet, if necessary. 21.Use a gun that works every time. “All skill is in vain when an angel blows the powder from the flintlock of your musket.” 22.Justified or not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature. 23.Afterwards say, “He said he was going to kill me. I believed him and he tried. I’m sorry, officer, but I’m very upset now. I can’t say anything more. Please speak to my attorney.” 24.“Speed is fine, but accuracy is final.”—Wyatt Earp 25.Good accuracy in a combat pistol doesn’t necessarily mean all shots must be in one hole, just that the pistol can consistently hit the target to the owner’s satisfaction. I can almost guarantee that no bad guy shot three times or more in the chest ever looked down and said, “A four inch group? That’s not an accurate gun.” 26.In a stressful situation like a gunfight, gross motor skills take over from fine motor skills. Guns that are simple to operate and that fit the hand properly, don’t endanger their owners by distracting them from the task at hand: winning a gunfight. 27.The two most important things for a defensive handgun are a good trigger, and sights that you can actually see. Reliability is paramount, followed by visible sights and a smooth trigger; a grip that improves recoil control and presentation of the piece to the target; durability and concealability. What else could anyone possible need in a fighting handgun? 28.“The most dangerous guy is the next one.”—Jeff Hall, Ret. Alaska State Trooper Sniper 29.“Continue shooting until your sight picture is degraded by a lack of target.”– Evan Marshal, retired Detroit Police Department cop 30.High capacity is not an acceptable substitute for good marksmanship. 31.Never trust your life to a firearm or ammo that you haven’t tested. Said no one who ever know anything about handguns, ever. True. We were taught if you've made the decision to shoot you don't fire once. There is no way you're going to be accurate at any distance in that kind of a stressful situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 What they taught us is a handgun in not used to kill someone who is in your home. It is meant to make them stop. Lethal force is a very, very last resort. Yes, it's meant to make them stop...by killing them. Lethal force should be a last resort...but if you're pointing a gun at someone and haven't reached that point of last resort, you're irresponsible. You don't point a gun at someone to make them reconsider their decision-making paradigm. Rules of a gunfight ... 13.Have a plan. Have a back-up plan because the first one won’t work. “No battle plan ever survives 10 seconds past first contact with an enemy.” ... Don't worry about the plan. Plans are irrelevant. PLANNING is what matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Yes, it's meant to make them stop...by killing them. Lethal force should be a last resort...but if you're pointing a gun at someone and haven't reached that point of last resort, you're irresponsible. You don't point a gun at someone to make them reconsider their decision-making paradigm. No making them stop by killing them is irresponsible. You point a gun at them to make them stop not to kill them. So what are you saying? Someone comes in to your home and you say "stop I have a gun" and if they don't stop you find your target? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 No making them stop by killing them is irresponsible. You point a gun at them to make them stop not to kill them. So what are you saying? Someone comes in to your home and you say "stop I have a gun" and if they don't stop you find your target? Yeah...but from cover. Of course, I wouldn't. I'm more of an edged weapon guy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Yeah...but from cover. Of course, I wouldn't. I'm more of an edged weapon guy... Target first then verbal commands to stop. There isn't always cover, especially in your home. Sheetrock doesn't stop much of anything. That's just me. Our instructor had a story. He was sitting in his house and he notice someone was outside and was working on the door handle. They were turning the handle in circles. He said all he could think of was some crazy guy on PCP breaking in by destroying the door assembly from outside by brute force. So he targeted the head shot thinking a body shot, or several body shots, on someone strung out on PCP wouldn't do much. As they guy came he he targeted between the eyes and told the guy to stop. The guy said "I think I have the wrong house." He was a locksmith who was there to work on the neighbor's lock. Now true story or not it's a good anecdote as to why you don't shoot just because they're in your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Target first then verbal commands to stop. There isn't always cover, especially in your home. Sheetrock doesn't stop much of anything. That's just me. Our instructor had a story. He was sitting in his house and he notice someone was outside and was working on the door handle. They were turning the handle in circles. He said all he could think of was some crazy guy on PCP breaking in by destroying the door assembly from outside by brute force. So he targeted the head shot thinking a body shot, or several body shots, on someone strung out on PCP wouldn't do much. As they guy came he he targeted between the eyes and told the guy to stop. The guy said "I think I have the wrong house." He was a locksmith who was there to work on the neighbor's lock. Now true story or not it's a good anecdote as to why you don't shoot just because they're in your house. Why would you not knock or just prepare yourself for just such an event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Why would you not knock or just prepare yourself for just such an event? I'm not following the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I'm not following the question. Why would the locksmith not knock on the door or check the residence first? It may sound stupid, but what does it hurt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Why would the locksmith not knock on the door or check the residence first? It may sound stupid, but what does it hurt? I have no idea and not even sure if it was a true story the instructor told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I have no idea and not even sure if it was a true story the instructor told. You should ask for your tuition back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 You should ask for your tuition back. Why is that? Enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Our house was broken in to last year How could your house have been broken into? Don't you live in California, where everyone is a liberal and the place is an amazing utopia with no crime and no avarice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Why is that? Enlighten me. Because the directions she gave (not the subsequent email) describe a good way to increase the risk of ending up dead. The only communication you want to have with an intruder is the sound of you chambering a round. Anything more is unnecessary and creates a situation where you're on the lesser end of asymmetrical information. You want to find cover, "lie in wait", call the cops if you can do so undetected, and if the person still decides to pursue you, you take him out as soon as you have a clear shot. It's not even that there's never a situation where you want to hold someone at gunpoint while you call the cops, but that's more of a one off than a rule of thumb. If you're in a situation that calls for you to point a loaded gun at someone you best be ready to shoot. Target first then verbal commands to stop. There isn't always cover, especially in your home. Sheetrock doesn't stop much of anything. That's just me. Our instructor had a story. He was sitting in his house and he notice someone was outside and was working on the door handle. They were turning the handle in circles. He said all he could think of was some crazy guy on PCP breaking in by destroying the door assembly from outside by brute force. So he targeted the head shot thinking a body shot, or several body shots, on someone strung out on PCP wouldn't do much. As they guy came he he targeted between the eyes and told the guy to stop. The guy said "I think I have the wrong house." He was a locksmith who was there to work on the neighbor's lock. Now true story or not it's a good anecdote as to why you don't shoot just because they're in your house. In this situation you would do well to ask "who's there" before they get through the door. The threat is sufficiently different, but that way you've established your respective roles before you're face to face. That way there's no question of the scenario you describe, & if a dangerous threat is on notice & comes through your door anyway....well, if it's me, at that point we're through talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Because the directions she gave (not the subsequent email) describe a good way to increase the risk of ending up dead. The only communication you want to have with an intruder is the sound of you chambering a round. Anything more is unnecessary and creates a situation where you're on the lesser end of asymmetrical information. You want to find cover, "lie in wait", call the cops if you can do so undetected, and if the person still decides to pursue you, you take him out as soon as you have a clear shot. It's not even that there's never a situation where you want to hold someone at gunpoint while you call the cops, but that's more of a one off than a rule of thumb. If you're in a situation that calls for you to point a loaded gun at someone you best be ready to shoot. . Find cover and lie in wait when you have an intruder sure. But when you're face to face with them be ready to shoot but that should be the last resort and if they take one step towards you then you shoot. And I agree chambering a round is a form of communication but if you have a round chambered before you confront them then verbal communication is all you have at that point. Because the directions she gave (not the subsequent email) describe a good way to increase the risk of ending up dead. The only communication you want to have with an intruder is the sound of you chambering a round. Anything more is unnecessary and creates a situation where you're on the lesser end of asymmetrical information. You want to find cover, "lie in wait", call the cops if you can do so undetected, and if the person still decides to pursue you, you take him out as soon as you have a clear shot. It's not even that there's never a situation where you want to hold someone at gunpoint while you call the cops, but that's more of a one off than a rule of thumb. If you're in a situation that calls for you to point a loaded gun at someone you best be ready to shoot. In this situation you would do well to ask "who's there" before they get through the door. The threat is sufficiently different, but that way you've established your respective roles before you're face to face. That way there's no question of the scenario you describe, & if a dangerous threat is on notice & comes through your door anyway....well, if it's me, at that point we're through talking. Who's there??? Are you !@#$ing kidding me. Me: Who's there?? Them: Candygram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Can't he just claim temporary insanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Can't he just claim temporary insanity? Something a jury would never fall for in your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Something a jury would never fall for in your case. The temporary part, I presume? Find cover and lie in wait when you have an intruder sure. But when you're face to face with them be ready to shoot but that should be the last resort and if they take one step towards you then you shoot. And I agree chambering a round is a form of communication but if you have a round chambered before you confront them then verbal communication is all you have at that point. Who's there??? Are you !@#$ing kidding me. Me: Who's there?? Them: Candygram. You and Rob would do well to read Andrew Branca's works at the link below. He's quite knowledgeable about your legal limitations. http://legalinsurrection.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 We should ask Oscar Pistorius about these rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 The temporary part, I presume? You and Rob would do well to read Andrew Branca's works at the link below. He's quite knowledgeable about your legal limitations. http://legalinsurrection.com/ As long as she's 18, what limitations are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 As long as she's 18, what limitations are there? Will I regret it in the morning, for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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