Fezmid Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I'm not sure how much traction this story is receiving outside of Minneosta. Basically two teens (17 and 18 I believe) broke into this guy's house on Thanksgiving. He shot and killed the first one. Then the girl came down, he shot and wounded her - tried taking another shot, but the gun jammed. She laughed at him, so he grabbed a pistol and killed her too. He called the police the next day (because he didn't want to bother them on Thanksgiving........). At first the media was portraying him as a monster and the kids as saints. Look for their pictures in various stories and you'll see something similar to the Trayvon Martin case, where they made Martin look innocent. But now news has been leaking out that the kids are probably responsible for numerous break-ins (cops found $10k worth of guns/drugs in their car from what I read). The girl (maybe both of them) were in and out of rehab. Definitely not good eggs. So the question remains -- murder, self-defense, or somewhere in the middle? Here's a story: http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2845903.shtml?cat=1 And another: http://www.startribune.com/local/181772751.html The first story says that the neighbor called the police, which is technically true, but from other accounts, the "murderer/victim" asked the neighbor to call the police after asking for a lawyer reference. I think that it's an interesting case.
KD in CA Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Whatever. Don't want to get shot? Don't break into people's houses.
UConn James Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I wouldn't vote to convict. Not after what happened to the Petit family in Cheshire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_Connecticut,_home_invasion_murders I don't really care if the guy bludgeoned their eyes and ripped their fingernails out first. You go into someone's house, whatever happens to you is your own damn fault!
section122 Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 It is a very interesting case because he clearly went above and beyond protecting himself. I can't make a declaration either way but it is one to keep an eye on. My first instinct/reaction is to give him a slap on the wrist. Nobody will be breaking into his house anytime soon. Also the part about a neighbor suspecting he was taking pets was a clear attempt to slant opinion against him. Gossip counts as news now? What happened to the media?
KD in CA Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 It is a very interesting case because he clearly went above and beyond protecting himself. Wrong. Burglars commit violent acts all the time. He has no way of knowing their intent, if they are armed, etc. He is not a trained police officer, nor should he be expected to act like one on a moments notice.
TheMadCap Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Haven't heard a thing about it. My guess is that they were white kids shot by a white guy???? I wonder. If someone broke into my house, I would try my best to eliminate them at all cost, I don't give a damn if they are unarmed, blind, crippled and crazy. The reason being: you have NO idea what someone will do, if you let them go, they could come back and you might not be so lucky the next time... Edited December 3, 2012 by TheMadCap
section122 Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Wrong. Burglars commit violent acts all the time. He has no way of knowing their intent, if they are armed, etc. He is not a trained police officer, nor should he be expected to act like one on a moments notice. The shot under the chin was what I referring to. I have no problem with self defense in his home but this is your definition of self defense? He put 3 shots into the guy with the last as the kid was laying on the ground looking up at him. The girl got 1 shot put into her then it jammed so he put the gun under her chin and shot her? Self defense to me is protecting yourself against imminent danger not questionable danger, and when the suspects have been shot and incapacitated the danger is over. Add to that he didn't call the police immediately? Like I said I won't make declarations one way or the other on my feelings as there are to many questions and to little information but I realize this is PPP.
/dev/null Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 First one, self defense Second one, manslaughter. He shot her once and wounded her, then he went for another gun to finish the job Not calling the police when it happened raises suspucion.
TheMadCap Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 The shot under the chin was what I referring to. I have no problem with self defense in his home but this is your definition of self defense? He put 3 shots into the guy with the last as the kid was laying on the ground looking up at him. The girl got 1 shot put into her then it jammed so he put the gun under her chin and shot her? Self defense to me is protecting yourself against imminent danger not questionable danger, and when the suspects have been shot and incapacitated the danger is over. Add to that he didn't call the police immediately? Like I said I won't make declarations one way or the other on my feelings as there are to many questions and to little information but I realize this is PPP. Yes, I understand your point, but what if they come back and kill you a month later?
Fezmid Posted December 3, 2012 Author Posted December 3, 2012 Yes, I understand your point, but what if they come back and kill you a month later? Some reports have said that the burglars had robbed him in the past. I don't think it's been confirmed though (only confirmation is that his specific house had been robbed 8 times in the past, although allegedly only one was reported to police).
3rdnlng Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 2nd degree murder on both counts. Once he was no longer in danger he shouldn't have shot them.
LeviF Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Each killing seems like a crime to me. Reminds me of that pharmacist who put a few bullets into a would-be robber while the guy was laying on the ground. Still, not a ton of info on this yet. Have to say I wouldn't vote to convict, though. Edited December 3, 2012 by LeviF91
TakeYouToTasker Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 If someone has the criminal inclinition to be in someone's home without their permission, with the intent to steal from them, there is no telling how far they will go or what else they might be capable of. Once someone has been forced into that undesirable position by the perpetrator of a crime, the perpetrator has lost all say in what the victim feels to be reasonable self-defense. Without being in the room, it's impossible to know what was going through the man's head. The amount of shots fired into the first criminal might seem excessive until one considers the fact that the man was dealing with two threats, and may have felt the need to be sure that the first was dealt fatal damage, such that he could be sure that they would no longer be any threat at all while he dealt with the second criminal. In dealing with the second criminal, it's impossible to say if the man still perceived her to be a threat after wounding her. We don't know what was said, or if the man still felt threatened or not. Given how little we can actually know about the perceived threat the man may or may not have felt, I'm going to err on the side of the man who was defending himself and his property.
drinkTHEkoolaid Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 He should have notified police ASAP not waited...
section122 Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Yes, I understand your point, but what if they come back and kill you a month later? Then it is a completely unrelated crime. Of course it would be terrible but how can you plan on that or use that as your logical thought process. Once they are down and not a threat the legal thing to do would be to call the police and let the justice system work. Now it looks like the justice system will be working against him. The whole other gun aspect is what bothers me. If he had pumped all of those bullets from one gun and quickly I would believe it was self defense without question. His actions during and after leave a lot of questions.
TheMadCap Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Then it is a completely unrelated crime. Of course it would be terrible but how can you plan on that or use that as your logical thought process. Once they are down and not a threat the legal thing to do would be to call the police and let the justice system work. Now it looks like the justice system will be working against him. The whole other gun aspect is what bothers me. If he had pumped all of those bullets from one gun and quickly I would believe it was self defense without question. His actions during and after leave a lot of questions. I believe that if I were in that situation, I am quite sure that logical thinking would be rapidly short circuted by instincts and desire to neutralize the threat. I completely understand your point, Section. However, I would never be able to sleep again knowing that one day the creep who broke into my house might get out of jail one day and come back for me. I would rather take my chances in court...
B-Large Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 (edited) Don't have anything to add to the discussion..... But I'd totally do that chick in the pictures... heck, I might even have paid..... yeah, I would have.... Edited December 3, 2012 by B-Large
B-Man Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 Self - defense or murder ? Well, like most of America, I couldn't possibly give an opinion until Bob Costas or another celebrity, tells me what to think.
Rob's House Posted December 3, 2012 Posted December 3, 2012 I tend to err on the side of the home owner in these situations, but this guy went too far. Murder 2 on the girl & voluntary manslaughter on the boy.
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