JPS Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Excellent thread people. Bunch of solid points. I just look at SF. I think they're pretty much 1st or 2nd rounders across the board and they crush people. I think we're not done building the line, but with HUGE needs at QB and LB and Pears under contract, it will have to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 They played a bad game, but aren't a bad unit and have been a strength this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 They were certainly terrible Sunday, including our "franchise" rookie LT. PTR Right, because he's the 1st NFL LT to struggle a bit blocking Freeney... I watched Glenn a lot on Sunday and actually felt like he did OK considering the fact that Freeney is an absolute whirling handful still to this day...With his speed and the spin moves...The guy is incredible...And leading up to that game Glenn has clearly played even better than most would have expected...So I think the criticism in this case for Glenn specifically is WAY unwarranted... They played a bad game, but aren't a bad unit and have been a strength this season. Exactly...Folks are getting WAY off subject with criticism in this area...Talk about bigger fish to fry...Jeez... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 General consensus is that Fitz can't make a deep throw, so all he does is short slants and screens. If that's true, how is he getting hit when he only holds the ball for 2 seconds. Legitimately every pass play, Fitz gets his bell rung after releasing the ball. Even when they rush only 4. Stats about sacks allowed are misleading because of how our offense is designed, our pass protection is just as bad as the Eagles. The more I watch this team (or less) the more I am buying into this notion. At least when it comes to pass protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 General consensus is that Fitz can't make a deep throw, so all he does is short slants and screens. If that's true, how is he getting hit when he only holds the ball for 2 seconds. Legitimately every pass play, Fitz gets his bell rung after releasing the ball. Even when they rush only 4. Stats about sacks allowed are misleading because of how our offense is designed, our pass protection is just as bad as the Eagles. i agreed last year. dont agree this year. wouldnt call them elite, but a pretty good young line. in Indianapolis, with very good pass rushers isnt the easiest venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 instead of keeping one or two safeties deep, I see defenses stack the box and blitz while leaving the deep part of the field ungaurded on purpose, becuase Fitz cant throw it that far anyways You know who throws a great ball downfield? Tim Tebow. Actually he doesn't but he wills it to his receivers with his heart and desire. Aint that right, Peter Pan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 I see Fitz get maybe 1-2 pass plays off without getting hit per game. You don't think that upsets his flow a little. I'm not trying to defend Fitz, because I do think he struggles a lot, but he's put in a position to fail with the play calling and the poor O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Love this thread. Our rbs average over 5 ypc but it's not the oline's fault. Fitz is awful but he is the sole reason we don't give up sacks. And he wants to fire Gailey so he gets no credit. Bascially, no one gets credit for having one of the best ypc in the NFL and fewest sacks given up. Makes sense. You know, you and I have disagreed at times over the years. Btw, I am fine with this. I love the exchange of opinions and ideas. That said, it does feel good to b on the same page wrt this issue. As you well know, I would be the very first one to blast this OL. It's what I watch the most when I watch games. Replays matter to me becuse I miss many plays trying to pick up on what is happening up front. Now, let's break it down, shall we? Let's go position by position and ask ourselves when we were doing better at each OL position: LT: For a couple of years, Jason Peters was better than Glenn, who is a ROOKIE, and a 2nd round LT to boot. Jennings was good, not great. Glenn looks like a great selection and top prospect. And he works very hard in terms of his effort on the field. LG: A case could be made that Rubn Brown was better than Levitre. If so, not by much imo. Have we had a decent LG between Brown and Levitre? Of course not. OC: Wood concerned me wrt his injuries, but he is playing better than anyone since Hull. Remember Fowler, and the other horror shows? RG: This is a position at which we were particularly bad for years on end..The last good RG I can remember was Vilarial, and he sucked after a half of a season due to injuries.And this was in what, 2002? Urbik and Rinehart are both better than what we had at this position for a very long time. RT Again who wasn't awful other than Jason Peters, or Jennings when he played that side? Now we have Pears, who I think is VEY good on running plays, and Hairston, who did look good, but not lately. Yes, this line is the best one we have had in many, many years. When the qb is throwing picks and forcing the team to play from behind, it ain't easy to block. Especially with no deep threat from the qb or at wideout. Then, there were the games in which we gave up huge points. Fitz is not capable of too many quick stikes nor comeback wins. Remember too, they scored 65 combined points in the losses to NE and Tenn. And as you said, Spiller is running all over the place. Short yardage third downs? As good as Spiller is, he is NOT a short yrdage back. Fred has been banged up all year. Choice gained some yards but Chan doesn't use him much. Nope, the OL is no longer an issue. AT LAST!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 All that being said Bill, I hope they build on having a decent line and go for a dominant one. I'd love to see a bona fide monster at RT (pass and Run). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The o line is respectable. and has depth now. we would be foolish to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 The offensive line has been over-rated by the fan base in the sense that many annointed this group as the best group the Bills had ever mustered, which any student of the game knew to be blatant wishcasting. To say this line, which grades out extremely well on both an individual and group basis when compared to it's peers, is a weakness... well... that's just plain dumb. This team offers it's fans many, many very legitimate things to complain about, but you're bitching about the cold weather when it's 92 degrees outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Excellent thread people. Bunch of solid points. I just look at SF. I think they're pretty much 1st or 2nd rounders across the board and they crush people. I think we're not done building the line, but with HUGE needs at QB and LB and Pears under contract, it will have to wait. Yea, agree. The Bills are not there just yet. Some people gushing about how good this O line currently is need to wait to see another QB play behind it to understand what Fitz brings to the team. They need to realize there is a reason Gailey keeps Fitz starting, and Thigpen sitting and Tavaris Jackson inactive. There is a reason this line can't make a first down on 3rd and short to save their lives. This young line has a bunch of potential to be very good, just not yet. Wood is a pro bowler in my view and makes the players around him look very good. While Levitre is good he is just not quite at a pro bowl level yet. The Bills are currently ranked 7th in rushing behind the 49ers, Redskins, Minnesota, KC, Houston and New England. Now, if the current Bills setup the spread offensive set like those 90's Bills did with good fullbacks, blocking TE's, and learned to run out of a closed set they would be easily contending for that #1 rushing spot. Lord knows Spiller and Jackson are better then any other RB tandem in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) The offensive line has been over-rated by the fan base in the sense that many annointed this group as the best group the Bills had ever mustered, which any student of the game knew to be blatant wishcasting. To say this line, which grades out extremely well on both an individual and group basis when compared to it's peers, is a weakness... well... that's just plain dumb. This team offers it's fans many, many very legitimate things to complain about, but you're bitching about the cold weather when it's 92 degrees outside. Alright pal, because we shouldn't be looking to improve every area of our football team? First of all, I never said this was a major problem, I just said they're overrated and not as strong as we think based on the way our offense is set up. I don't know about you, but I'm not looking to have every thread about our QB, HC and defense. If you're insulted because I'm talking about a subject that doesn't involve those 3 areas, you can go rehash the same old thing in every thread. I'll be here, bringing up valid and fresh criticisms, instead of beating more dead horses. Edited November 28, 2012 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Alright pal, because we shouldn't be looking to improve every area of our football team? First of all, I never said this was a major problem, I just said they're overrated and not as strong as we think based on the way our offense is set up. I don't know about you, but I'm not looking to have every thread about our QB, HC and defense. If you're insulted because I'm talking about a subject that doesn't involve those 3 areas, you can go rehash the same old thing in every thread. I'll be here, bringing up valid and fresh criticisms, instead of beating more dead horses. Wow... Strawman much? It speaks volumes that you seem to think the only possible thread topics are useless "this sucks" threads. It speaks even more pointedly when your "this sucks" threads aren't backed by metrics and data, but instead hinge on your feelings. There is another, much more prominent, private fan site I belong to (baseball) that would suspend your posting privileges for your drivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Wow... Strawman much? It speaks volumes that you seem to think the only possible thread topics are useless "this sucks" threads. It speaks even more pointedly when your "this sucks" threads aren't backed by metrics and data, but instead hinge on your feelings. There is another, much more prominent, private fan site I belong to (baseball) that would suspend your posting privileges for your drivel. It also speaks volumes that you resort to insults instead of trying to prove a point. We have a horrible 3rd and 1 offensive line. The stats agree with this. I assume you think that Fitz(who I like so don't say I'm a Fitz blamer) is better than Eli because of the stats? There's no denying that our sacks allowed stat is deceiving because we don't ever stay in the pocket for longer than 2 seconds usually. Which isn't always it's usually. I'm not speaking in absolutes here. And yeah, you saying "you're crazy for thinking our O-line is worth talking about, with bigger problems existing" (paraphrased), pretty much implies talking about the O-line when there are so many other issues is meaningless. There's no straw man when I say I think we should be looking to improve everywhere. I never said the line was a top priority. I'm just a fan calling it how I see it. Fitz's completion stat is inflated because of the dump off, why can't the O-line stats be inflated too? You even agreed the line is overrated, I didn't even once B word, I don't understand why talking about areas that could be improved is bitching. I guess you'd be happy to pretend the Bills aren't bad. Edited November 28, 2012 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Chan I think the posters have spoken......the OL is good. Sounds like another fitzcuse and we've been making them all year. OL and Kr are the last places we need to address in the draft.....if they show mck a lil $$$ Edited November 28, 2012 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 For what Chan asks our O-Line to do, I think they do an exceptional job. Whether they would excel in another coach's blocking scheme... there is honestly no way to tell. Some linemen are better at power blocking schemes. Others are better in zone schemes. Some are great at pulling and getting up the field. Others are better handling the blitz. Some are great run blockers. Others are better in pass protection. In the Bills current offense, the ball gets out of the QBs hand very quickly. Our linemen are usually only asked to block for a couple seconds - and that obviously helps their sack numbers. But at the same time, the spread offense rarely provides additional blocking help from running backs and tight ends when the defense decides to blitz. So there is a little bit of give and take. Same thing with the running game. Our offense is designed to spread the defense out, then take advantage of draws and misdirections. Our linemen are frequently asked to pull and get upfield to block on outside runs and screen plays. They obviously do a great job at both. Rarely is our O-Line asked to match-up 1-on-1, make a big push and force the defense backwards. But then again, rarely does it get help from a fullback, extra lineman or even a double tight end set. That makes a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Chan I think the posters have spoken......the OL is good. Sounds like another fitzcuse and we've been making them all year. OL and Kr are the last places we need to address in the draft.....if they show mck a lil $$$ I'm not making any excuses for Fitz. My only point is that if the O-line is overrated based on how we play football. Just like our secondary is underrated when we have no pass rush in half of our games. Every player affects another's performance. Just like how schemes can affect player's performances. The O-line isn't as good as they could be. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 I'm not making any excuses for Fitz. My only point is that if the O-line is overrated based on how we play football. Just like our secondary is underrated when we have no pass rush in half of our games. Every player affects another's performance. Just like how schemes can affect player's performances. The O-line isn't as good as they could be. That's all. So you started a thread to say that the OL isn't as good as it could be? Nice work. Although that's fairly difficult to believe, as the very title of your thread reads "Our offensive line is bad". Bad. Not "not as good as it could be" or "overrated"; "bad". Defending that by saying that they're "not as good as they could be" seems disingenuous, since there isn't one unit in the entire NFL that's "as good as it could be". Every single player can be better, so I'm not sure what your point is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 O-line is OK. But why rush to re-sign a guy like Pears? He's not going anywhere else. Same with Urbik. When faced with a decent pash rush (Indy, NYJ, SF), the O-line struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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