FireChan Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 General consensus is that Fitz can't make a deep throw, so all he does is short slants and screens. If that's true, how is he getting hit when he only holds the ball for 2 seconds. Legitimately every pass play, Fitz gets his bell rung after releasing the ball. Even when they rush only 4. Stats about sacks allowed are misleading because of how our offense is designed, our pass protection is just as bad as the Eagles.
PromoTheRobot Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 They were certainly terrible Sunday, including our "franchise" rookie LT. PTR
phypon Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Do you think it's a talent issue or a scheming issue?
jcbillsfan Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Sorry not buying it. Running back ran for over 7 yards a carry. Qb had time to hit three bombs. Missed 2.
ny33 Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) General consensus is that Fitz can't make a deep throw, so all he does is short slants and screens. If that's true, how is he getting hit when he only holds the ball for 2 seconds. Legitimately every pass play, Fitz gets his bell rung after releasing the ball. Even when they rush only 4. Stats about sacks allowed are misleading because of how our offense is designed, our pass protection is just as bad as the Eagles. http://wp.advancednf....com/teamOL.php http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol We may not be top-five, but "bad" is an inaccurate description. Assuming Levitre/Urbik are retained, Glenn will improve and something is done about the RT spot, this will continue to be a strength of the team. Also critically: look at the second table of the Football Outsiders statistics. Our biggest weakness- where we are ranked 30th- is against the left end, meaning with our right tackle. We rank very high, including first, against the right end (with our left tackle). Cordy Glenn has been nothing short of fantastic in the running game, as we've seen all season; he also gets upfield for blocks. I do agree that our pass blocking leaves something to be desired, but it's average at worst. Edited November 27, 2012 by ny33
jonramz Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Hmmm I have to disagree... I think the OL is a strength of the team. Hairston got eaten up Sunday, but overall I think they have been pretty good this season. Especially with what we used to have 4-5 years ago.
stony Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Sorry not buying it. Running back ran for over 7 yards a carry. Qb had time to hit three bombs. Missed 2. Yup, and there have been plenty of other missed bombs this year that would make us forget of Fitz's propensity for the short game. They certainly weren't at their best on Sunday, but taking the entire season into account, I've been happy with their play.
John from Riverside Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 If your QB could accurate throw any kind of pass downfield they would not be as apt to come all out on every play..... Sometimes you have to help your protection out by being on time with your throws and actually COMPLETING the deep throws........if they know they can just swarm you with no fear of being struck with a intermediate throw for a score they are more apt to drop more guys back into pass coverage and stop sitting on short routes Fitzpatrick simply is not a good qb
thewildrabbit Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) The thing is...unless a O linemen is very unique and above average right away it takes time for them to fully develop. I'd put it at about the same as the QB's learning curve to learn the offense in 3-4 years, They need to learn moves, technique on how to handle different players and that line needs to be one solid cohesive unit from tackle to tackle. Both Hairston and Glenn are still young and learning, while Wood and Levitre are solid, and could very well be in the pro bowl if they didn't have youngsters and some less then stellar players around them.JMO To the general consensus that think that line is great, think again. They haven't once been able move the pile on 3rd and short when it really counts running the ball. That is where the great O lines really shine. Mostly they are good at pass defense because Fitz can usually get the ball out in less then 3 seconds so most teams only rush four and have their lineman get their hands in the air simply because opposing DC's realize they won't get to Fitz for a sack. The ground game works so well because its almost always run from the spread offensive set and once the RB breaks a tackle he is gone to the races or if there is an actual hole its up to the DB's to make the tackle 5+ yards down field. If Spiller and Jackson were forced to run from closed sets all game long in play action, with 2 TE and a fullback they would have about a 1.5 YPC average. My take is they suck at it, because they don't work at it !! They have the size, just maybe not great blocking TE's. This Bills team is, and always has been a pass first team under Chan Gailey! Which really blows goats because even Gailey acknowledged his RB's should touch the ball 40 times a game. Yet he simply can't bring himself to stop calling pass plays like he has Tom Brady behind center along with that awesome Patriot receiving corps. He doesn't have Brady, Gronk, Welker!! What he does have is one solid #2 WR in SJ, a half way decent TE he hardly uses, and the best two RB's in the NFL that only get 1/2 the touches per game they should be getting. Lord in heaven I long for a Marty S, Bill Cowher, either Haraugh or Gary Kubiak running this team because those men would build a dedicated run the ball first offense. .Please Mr Wilson, wake up from your coma and fire Chan, Hire Marty S. Damn, where is the white wizard to wake up the old King from this spell... Edited November 27, 2012 by FeartheLosing
BillnutinHouston Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 One thing really nagging at me is this team's horrible inefficiency on short yardage running plays. When was the last time we lined up with a 3rd and 1 and actually got the first down on a running play? I know many of you will respond by saying that the long timeframe is caused by Chan always going empty backfield and throwing on third downs. But seriously, BEFORE CHAN STARTED THIS TENDENCY, when was the last time we got a tough first down on the ground?
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 The offensive line is just like every other group or player on this team- inconsitent. That is a product of poor coaching. I mean if you can look good one week and poor a next what does that say? Probably that the coaches prepaired you well one week and bad the next. Now the Bills did have some bad plays- Hairston for one looked really bad on that one sack.
HeHateMe Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) The O line gets overrated on this board quite a bit... They can't pass block for more than 2 seconds and never push the pile on short yardage conversions. Our RBs have a high average because we barely run it and when we do, it comes out of the spread vs cornerbacks and thin lines... But yes Fitz is still terrible and gets no pass on this. There are plays to be made every game and he simply cannot get it done. If he hits either of those 2 wide open passes last game, we score 2 game breaking TDs and probably take that game. Edited November 27, 2012 by kobe808lak
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Now the Line is bad? Put the blame wher it belongs. Dropped passes, blocked passes, INT's, crapy play calling, and KO returns for a TD. If you have not been keeping count that's two weeks in a row, both game scores were within 7 or less.
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Love this thread. Our rbs average over 5 ypc but it's not the oline's fault. Fitz is awful but he is the sole reason we don't give up sacks. And he wants to fire Gailey so he gets no credit. Bascially, no one gets credit for having one of the best ypc in the NFL and fewest sacks given up. Makes sense.
peterpan Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 instead of keeping one or two safeties deep, I see defenses stack the box and blitz while leaving the deep part of the field ungaurded on purpose, becuase Fitz cant throw it that far anyways
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing Part time rushing and CJ's #10 overall. -Yards Per Rush Attempt Leaders CJ is #1 @ 6.4 ypc. the next RB is Adrian Peterson @ 5.8 ypc.
MDH Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 One thing really nagging at me is this team's horrible inefficiency on short yardage running plays. When was the last time we lined up with a 3rd and 1 and actually got the first down on a running play? I know many of you will respond by saying that the long timeframe is caused by Chan always going empty backfield and throwing on third downs. But seriously, BEFORE CHAN STARTED THIS TENDENCY, when was the last time we got a tough first down on the ground? The Bills rank 30th in the NFL at picking up the first down on 3rd and short. They're successful a paltry 32.1% of the time (compare that to the Titans who are successful 65% of the time.) That is not a good run blocking line my friends. There's a reason they pass and there's a reason they run half the time out of the shotgun - it's because they can't line up and drive defenders back. They are not a physical line.
TheBrownBear Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 The o-line is young, already solid, and will only get better. We have deficiencies in three areas - coaching, linebacking, and quarterbacking. If we can shore up two of those three areas in the offseason we will be a playoff team.
Mark Vader Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 Love this thread. Our rbs average over 5 ypc but it's not the oline's fault. Fitz is awful but he is the sole reason we don't give up sacks. And he wants to fire Gailey so he gets no credit. Bascially, no one gets credit for having one of the best ypc in the NFL and fewest sacks given up. Makes sense. I'm with you C.Biscuit. Now we have a terrible O-Line?! Give me a break. Our O-Line has been one of our strengths. Yes they played their worst game last Sunday, as far as pass protection, but they have been consistently good all season. There have been many times when Fitz has had all day to throw, and not just because of maximum protection(when 2 TE's are in). For the most part the line has done a good job of blitz pick-up and they've done a good job on run blocking. I'm not saying it's a great O-Line, but it's the best O-Line we've had for some time, and I believe they will only get better. Levitre & Urbik must be re-signed, Glenn has exceeded expectations and will only get better, Hairston has a tendency to struggle, but he is far from awful, and Wood has silenced many doubters at the start of the season when many of us wondered if he would be the same after two major injuries. Say what you want about how the offense could be better, but the O-Line is not a problem.
....lybob Posted November 27, 2012 Posted November 27, 2012 While it might not be a great OL it's the best it's been in a long time - one problem I see is the lack of a power running game but that is a coaching decision more than anything else if you only run power plays once or twice a game you're not going to be great at it.
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